Jesus is God.

[shava]

Jesus (pbuh) never claim to be, that's authors claims.

GOD after dozens of Prophets that He sent, why He should sent Him-self !

The author of the Holy Bible is God, and the forty men who wrote down were divinely guided by God to put only what he wanted put down.

 

[metis]

Apparently God needs to brush up on His spelling because, according to the rather notable Anglican theologian William Barclay, there are a great many misspellings in the oldest versions of the NT that we have in possession, with the worst being John's gospel.

BTW, how can one tell the difference between a divinely-inspired book versus one that's not? Is it that if someone says it's divinely inspired then it must be divinely inspired?

 

[Muffled]

Reread this:
John 11:42 "And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the multitude that standeth around I said it, that they may believe that thou didst send me."

Notice the word I underlined. How can they be one and the same when it says "...thou didst send me"? Logically impossible to say that one is the other when it's clear even in the verse you have quoted.

One thing I'll say for the Catholics is at least they realize that the "trinity" is a "mystery", so their position is logically much more rational that most of the fundamentalist Protestants, at least on this matter.

I believe that is due to the fact that Protestants believe in what the Word of God says and Catholics rely on the traditions of men.

I believe I see no problem with this so you will have to be more specific as to what your problem is.

I believe making statements is not the same thing as using logic and saying something is clear isn't if I don't see it as clear. However for a metaphor that does not completely work but will give you some idea. An apple has a rind and a core but both are the apple. This doesn't work with God because God doesn't have parts like an apple but God is everywhere so if I say God is in New York and God is in Paris it is still the one God.

 

[Muffled]

Whatever the translation is, how does this show that the Parakleet is God?

I believe the Paraclete (Comforter) is given to the believer who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior just as the verses say and that He will be in us as the Father and Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

G-d is present every-where, He is Omnipresent. Jesus was not present everywhere. Therefore,
Jesus is not god, he could never be.
Regards

Jesus is everywhere through the Spirit of God which is one. The body is not everywhere as you may have observed. Therefore the body of Jesus is not God.

 

[metis]

I believe that is due to the fact that Protestants believe in what the Word of God says and Catholics rely on the traditions of men.

I believe I see no problem with this so you will have to be more specific as to what your problem is.

I believe making statements is not the same thing as using logic and saying something is clear isn't if I don't see it as clear. However for a metaphor that does not completely work but will give you some idea. An apple has a rind and a core but both are the apple. This doesn't work with God because God doesn't have parts like an apple but God is everywhere so if I say God is in New York and God is in Paris it is still the one God.

You're the 2nd person I've had to respond to and state that you both are simply fabricating stories. Your first sentence simply is wrong as no tradition trumps scripture, according to RCC Canon Law.

As to the second sentence, I don't have a "problem" in this area, and I don't even know what you supposedly are looking for whereas you supposedly see a "problem". And the last paragraph doesn't make sense to me at all when put into the context of what I wrote. The idea that Jesus is God is truly illogical since Jesus often refers to God. Unless he's schizophrenic, that simply cannot be explained rationally. Therefore, the concept of the Trinity simply cannot be taken at the literalistic level, which is why Catholics refer to it as a "mystery".

 

[Muffled]

You're the 2nd person I've had to respond to and state that you both are simply fabricating stories. Your first sentence simply is wrong as no tradition trumps scripture, according to RCC Canon Law.

As to the second sentence, I don't have a "problem" in this area, and I don't even know what you supposedly are looking for whereas you supposedly see a "problem". And the last paragraph doesn't make sense to me at all when put into the context of what I wrote. The idea that Jesus is God is truly illogical since Jesus often refers to God. Unless he's schizophrenic, that simply cannot be explained rationally. Therefore, the concept of the Trinity simply cannot be taken at the literalistic level, which is why Catholics refer to it as a "mystery".

I believe actions speak louder than words. I suppose this falls under the heading of hypocrisy.

I can speak of myself and I am not schizophrenic. Is God less powerful than me? I speak to myself also in case you like that often used idea that God can't speak to Himself.

I don't see why the Catholic scholars should not be able to reason properly and why they just revert to fantasy.

 

[metis]

I believe actions speak louder than words. I suppose this falls under the heading of hypocrisy...
I don't see why the Catholic scholars should not be able to reason properly and why they just revert to fantasy.

Probably because they at least try and deal with down-to-Earth theology rather than fantasy.

 

[Muffled]

Probably because they at least try and deal with down-to-Earth theology rather than fantasy.

I don't believe there is any way for spiritual things to be down-to-earth. Does that mean Catholics refuse to believe anything spiritual that is mentioned in the Bible?

 

[metis]

I don't believe there is any way for spiritual things to be down-to-earth. Does that mean Catholics refuse to believe anything spiritual that is mentioned in the Bible?

I didn't imply that when I said "down-to-Earth", only that the church has tried to look at various theological matters in a manner that reflects at least some degree of objective scholarship even though they no doubt missed the boat on occasions-- just ask Galileo about that.

 

[12jtartar]

Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"

Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Shava,
What you have done is what many do, you have taken several Scriptures that seem to say something you want them to. The only trouble is; you have not written down in your post, the many Scriptures that prove, that Jesus is not God the Father.
The only way you can come to a true understanding of the Scriptures is to gather ALL the Scriptures about a subject, then use the power of reason to determine the truth.
The term; Scripture explains Scripture is true. Notice what Joseph said at Genesis 40:8. Another interesting term; Intertextuality, is also truth, all Scripture is related to all other Scripture.
If you want the whole truth, you must consider all scripture that pertains to the subject, otherwise you are only getting a part of truth. The Bible never contradicts itself!!
Now, anyone who understands the Bible knows that Jesus is a god. This is stated clearly at Isaiah 9:6, where Jesus is called a Mighty god. Here the Hebrew word El Gabbohr, but not El Shaddai, which is The Almighty God, whose name is Jehovah, Exodus 3:14,15, 6:2,3. Most Bibles have changed the words Jehovah, or GOD, or LORD all letters Capital, from YHWH, Jehovah. If you have a good concordance, you will find that the name for the Almighty God was in the Original Autographs over thousands of times. These four letters YHWH called The Tetragrammaton, are most often, in English written as Jehovah.
Let's start withe one particular Scripture tat you used, John 10:30, which says I and the Father are one. Matthew 19:5,6 says that a married couple would become one, just as Adam and Eve would become one.
Consider John 17:11, which Jesus said his followers would become one, just as Jesus and God were one. Consider also John 17:20-23. As can easily be seen when Jesus was talking about one, he meant one in purpose.
Very interesting is a motto on many of our American coins and paper money; E Pluribus unum, which means; Out of many one. Does that mean that all people who come to the United States actually become ONE, or does it mean that they should all work together in the same purpose???
At John 10:30 which you used, which says I and the Father are one. If you read the whole subject spoken about in John you will see that the Jews claimed that Jesus made himself a God, but Jesus stated that he had said that he was the son of God, John 10:30-36.
Let's read a few more Scriptures that must be taken into consideration, because Jesus said theses things, John 14:28, Jesus said; the Father is greater than I am. John 17:3-5, where Jesus is praying to his Father in heaven, saying that He is the only true God, who sent Jesus to earth.
Read John 20:17, where Jesus says that the Father is his Father and his God, just as he is our Father and God.
Consider Revelation 3:12, where Jesus says that God is his God four times in one Scripture.
If Jesus were the same person as God, why ones he not know all that God knows?? Matthew 24:36, or why some things Jesus has no authority over, Matthew 20:23.
Three times while Jesus was on earth, God in Heaven spoke to Jesus. Was this deception, which the Bible tells us God hates, or from Jesus, which the Bible says no deception was found in his mouth, 1Peter 2:21,22, Psalms 5:6, Matthew 3:16,17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28.
Jesus asked his disciples who the people were saying that he was. Peter said that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God. Then Jesus said to Peter, blessed you are Peter because flesh and blood did not reveal that to Peter but Jesus Father in heaven did, Matthew 16:13-17.
There are many other Scriptures that show that Jesus was both the son of Man and the son of God, John 5:17-30.

 

[Sonofason]

Reread this:
John 11:42 "And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the multitude that standeth around I said it, that they may believe that thou didst send me."

Notice the word I underlined. How can they be one and the same when it says "...thou didst send me"? Logically impossible to say that one is the other when it's clear even in the verse you have quoted.

One thing I'll say for the Catholics is at least they realize that the "trinity" is a "mystery", so their position is logically much more rational that most of the fundamentalist Protestants, at least on this matter.

I don't know metis. Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but I do talk to myself. I might say to myself, "why didst thou do that?", and I would answer myself and say to myself, "because I'm an idiot." Or I might say to myself, "Why did I do that?" And I would hear an answer, hopefully from myself, saying "because you're an idiot." We can refer to ourselves as I, and we can also refer to ourselves as you. If this is not true, then why do I do it?

Could it be possible that when I refer to myself with the pronoun "I" that it is me speaking of myself, and when I think I am referring to myself using the word "you" that it is actually someone else answering me or speaking to me? Could it be the Holy Spirit? If so, I think He hates me.

 

[metis]

I don't know metis. Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but I do talk to myself. I might say to myself, "why didst thou do that?", and I would answer myself and say to myself, "because I'm an idiot." Or I might say to myself, "Why did I do that?" And I would hear an answer, hopefully from myself, saying "because you're an idiot." We can refer to ourselves as I, and we can also refer to ourselves as you. If this is not true, then why do I do it?

Could it be possible that when I refer to myself with the pronoun "I" that it is me speaking of myself, and when I think I am referring to myself using the word "you" that it is actually someone else answering me or speaking to me? Could it be the Holy Spirit? If so, I think He hates me.

No, I don't believe for one minute the H.S. hates you.

As to the rest of the above, when Jesus said about the end-of-times that he didn't know when it would be and that only "the Father" knows for sure, that pretty much tells me that they cannot literally be one and the same. Where I think the connection between them may have gotten twisted is that I do believe it likely that his followers believed he was of God but not God, and that distinction probably got lost over the centuries that followed.

Am I certain of this? Of course not.

 

[Britedream]

Jesus is everywhere through the Spirit of God which is one. The body is not everywhere as you may have observed. Therefore the body of Jesus is not God.

I believe , Christian understand Jesus to mean the body and the spirit , not the spirit alone, please correct this, if it is not right.

 

[Muffled]

I don't know metis. Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but I do talk to myself. I might say to myself, "why didst thou do that?", and I would answer myself and say to myself, "because I'm an idiot." Or I might say to myself, "Why did I do that?" And I would hear an answer, hopefully from myself, saying "because you're an idiot." We can refer to ourselves as I, and we can also refer to ourselves as you. If this is not true, then why do I do it?

Could it be possible that when I refer to myself with the pronoun "I" that it is me speaking of myself, and when I think I am referring to myself using the word "you" that it is actually someone else answering me or speaking to me? Could it be the Holy Spirit? If so, I think He hates me.

I believe it is most likely your own spirit. Mine can be quite contentious at times as well. The mind and the spirit can have very different personalities although the spirit will influence the mind somewhat.

I believe I do also and not always orally. One might call that thinking but there are other ways to think besides orally.

 

[Muffled]

I believe , Christian understand Jesus to mean the body and the spirit , not the spirit alone, please correct this, if it is not right.

I believe you are correct on this. So what we are recognizing in Jesus is the Spirit of God. So we are not saying that the totality of Jesus is God. However the presence of God's Spirit identifies Jesus as God. It is the everlasting identity. As far as we know the body didn't survive resurrection ie He was resurrected with a different body. Paul says so for sure.

 

[Sonofason]

I believe it is most likely your own spirit. Mine can be quite contentious at times as well. The mind and the spirit can have very different personalities although the spirit will influence the mind somewhat.

I believe I do also and not always orally. One might call that thinking but there are other ways to think besides orally.

I can not for the life of me understand why I would refer to myself as you. It just doesn't make any sense to me, even though I agree with you that it is my own self, or spirit as you say doing the speaking, or thinking.

 

[Muffled]

I can not for the life of me understand why I would refer to myself as you. It just doesn't make any sense to me, even though I agree with you that it is my own self, or spirit as you say doing the speaking, or thinking.

The mind has its thoughts and the spirit has it s thoughts. The mind has its self awareness and the spirit has its self awareness.

 

[Sonofason]

The mind has its thoughts and the spirit has it s thoughts. The mind has its self awareness and the spirit has its self awareness.

The mind has its thoughts and the spirit has it s thoughts. The mind has its self awareness and the spirit has its self awareness.

I agree...it would seem so. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Muffled]

I agree...it would seem so. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense.

I believe it shows up in Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. With the mind he says "deliver me from this suffering" but with the Spirit of God He says "Thy will be done."