How God is not loving

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I will reiterate my point one last time in this topic. It is a much more brief topic. Therefore, it is bound to have more replies rather than people ignoring it. So this is my last topic in which this point will be made. I hear people say that suffering is inflicted upon us for our own personal growth and development.

But imagine if I went up to someone innocent, inflicted unimaginable mental pain and suffering upon him/her, and then said to him/her:

"I know, it's hard. But life was never meant to be easy. You mere meant to suffer. Life is a hard school for our learning, growing, and developing."

Imagine if I said that while this person was going insane, screaming, suicidal, and begging to be put out of his/her misery.

That loathsome, cruel, careless abomination that would be me could easily represent who God is as well. So as you can clearly see here, God is not the loving caring God many people make Him out to be.

That is, if there really is a God. There might not even be a God, afterlife, or anything paranormal. The natural world might really be all there is. I just find myself enraged with people who somehow think that this would be a loving and caring God.

If this God actually existed, I would choose to destroy Him off the face of this universe once and for all.

 

[Skwim]

You have to understand the needs of the believer. They can't entertain such a notion because it would weaken, perhaps even destroy, their faith. When such things come up the believer simply dismisses them out of hand, purposely blocking them from their mind. So don't expect much of a response, if any, from them. The most you might get is fundamentalist tap dancing pointing out the need for suffering so as to prepare one for a life with god after death.


.

 

[Deidre]

You have to understand the needs of the believer. They can't entertain such a notion because it would weaken, perhaps even destroy, their faith. When such things come up the believer simply dismisses them out of hand, purposely blocking them from their mind. So don't expect much of a response, if any, from them. The most you might get is fundamentalist tap dancing.


.

Because you've polled all believers to know this? lol

 

[Skwim]

Because you've polled all believers to know this? lol

No need to. If you're around believers enough it readily becomes apparent---pretty much a no-brainer. I have, and it is. HOWEVER, if you think you have better explanation, which I assume is backed up by some poll, please share.


.

 

[Deidre]

No need to. If you're around believers enough it readily becomes apparent---pretty much a no-brainer. I have, and it is. HOWEVER, if you think you have better explanation, which I assume is backed up by some poll, please share.


.

All I can say, is that everyone has a different interpretation of God, depending on their beliefs. There's an assumption that all Christians for example believe that God is all loving, and they interpret that to mean that when He corrects, that is also a loving act. I could agree with that, but I don't look at all of the stories in the Bible as literal truths. Some are 'just stories,' and serve as what some people in an entirely different era thought of God. The beauty of faith is that it evolves. Just be careful to not view every believer with the same broad brush, because it would be wrong to do that. Not morally wrong, but just that you simply don't know that everyone is the same. It would be like me saying that all atheists think alike too on certain subjects, and they don't. Just because a subset of people believe in a Creator, doesn't mean they all think alike about that Creator.

 

[Gyrannon]

Without suffering there cannot be hardship, without hardship, there cannot be challenge, without challenge there cannot be a life worth living regardless if there is a God or not.

Life would be boring and meaningless if we ALWAYS got what we wanted and if it were impossible for any of us to feel any sort of suffering. Without Evil, there is no direction for those that seek to be Good, and without Good, everything is just mindless chaos.

 

[Skwim]

All I can say, is that everyone has a different interpretation of God, depending on their beliefs. There's an assumption that all Christians for example believe that God is all loving, and they interpret that to mean that when He corrects, that is also a loving act. I could agree with that, but I don't look at all of the stories in the Bible as literal truths. Some are 'just stories,' and serve as what some people in an entirely different era thought of God. The beauty of faith is that it evolves. Just be careful to not view every believer with the same broad brush, because it would be wrong to do that. Not morally wrong, but just that you simply don't know that everyone is the same. It would be like me saying that all atheists think alike too on certain subjects, and they don't. Just because a subset of people believe in a Creator, doesn't mean they all think alike about that Creator.

You have to understand that no one here is going to take the time to qualify everything they say, particularly when such qualification goes without saying. However, because you evidently haven't caught on to this, let me qualify my statement by saying

"You have to understand the needs of almost all believers. They can't entertain such a notion because it would weaken, perhaps even destroy, their faith. When such things come up these believers simply dismisses them out of hand, purposely blocking them from their mind. So don't expect much of a response, if any, from them. The most you might get is fundamentalist tap dancing pointing out the need for suffering so as to prepare one for a life with god after death."


.​

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Without suffering there cannot be hardship, without hardship, there cannot be challenge, without challenge there cannot be a life worth living regardless if there is a God or not.

Life would be boring and meaningless if we ALWAYS got what we wanted and if it were impossible for any of us to feel any sort of suffering. Without Evil, there is no direction for those that seek to be Good, and without Good, everything is just mindless chaos.

I lived a blissful life in the past with no major suffering in my life. It was the greatest life for me. It was the greatest life worth living to me. So no, not everyone who has their lives easy think that their lives are not worth living. Quite the contrary. Many people who are happy, have their lives easy, are free of suffering and misery, etc. find their lives well worth living.

They detest suffering and wish to have nothing to do with it. They only want happy and fun challenges that are healthy for their mental wellness and well-being. Now going back to what you just said. That is still leaving out those types of people who suffer so much that their lives are not worth living at all. You are leaving out those types of people I have talked about here. Those types of people who value their happiness/well-being and find a life of suffering and misery not worth living at all.

You are also leaving out those types of people who are suicidal, have their lives destroyed, etc. Lastly, what you just said would also be no different than telling an innocent suffering person who is in such pain and agony:

"Without suffering there cannot be hardship, without hardship, there cannot be challenge, without challenge there cannot be a life worth living regardless if there is a God or not"

This quoted message is no different than that cruel icon of God I have shown above. This quoted message is also insulting, cruel, careless, and ignorant of the innocent suffering person as well.

 

[Skwim]

Without suffering there cannot be hardship, without hardship, there cannot be challenge, without challenge there cannot be a life worth living regardless if there is a God or not.

Explain why the challenge of hardship makes life worth living. Thing is, I know of quite a few people who have gone through life without a single hardship, and believe me, they find their life very worth living.

Life would be boring and meaningless if we ALWAYS got what we wanted and if it were impossible for any of us to feel any sort of suffering.

So all it takes to suffer is to not get what one would like. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?

Without Evil, there is no direction for those that seek to be Good, and without Good, everything is just mindless chaos.

And this is exactly what I mean by fundamentalist tap dancing (one doesn't have to be an actual fundamentalist to do the dance). Thank you for providing a good example. Thank you very much.


.

 

[idav]

I will reiterate my point one last time in this topic. It is a much more brief topic. Therefore, it is bound to have more replies rather than people ignoring it. So this is my last topic in which this point will be made. I hear people say that suffering is inflicted upon us for our own personal growth and development.

But imagine if I went up to someone innocent, inflicted unimaginable mental pain and suffering upon him/her, and then said to him/her:

"I know, it's hard. But life was never meant to be easy. You mere meant to suffer. Life is a hard school for our learning, growing, and developing."

Imagine if I said that while this person was going insane, screaming, suicidal, and begging to be put out of his/her misery.

That loathsome, cruel, careless abomination that would be me could easily represent who God is as well. So as you can clearly see here, God is not the loving caring God many people make Him out to be.

That is, if there really is a God. There might not even be a God, afterlife, or anything paranormal. The natural world might really be all there is. I just find myself enraged with people who somehow think that this would be a loving and caring God.

If this God actually existed, I would choose to destroy Him off the face of this universe once and for all.

An all powerful being isn't necessarily all good, thats wishful thinking. All powerful seems like a bit of a stretch too. Us being the image of god would mean God can be loving or cruel and as such there is a war of gods going on, similar to the mythological stories of powerful gods trying to best each other. Power is relative and relative to the power of the universe we are pretty weak but we have certainly been finding ways to tap into the power of creation and destruction that is in the very fabric of existence.

 

[Gyrannon]

"Without suffering there cannot be hardship, without hardship, there cannot be challenge, without challenge there cannot be a life worth living regardless if there is a God or not"

This quoted message is no different than that cruel icon of God I have shown above. This quoted message is also insulting, cruel, careless, and ignorant of the innocent suffering person as well.

Do you want me to join you in your pointless hate? Seriously think about this. If God is as Evil as you believe, regardless of what we think, we can't do anything about.

We are a people with sticks who would stand no chance against a singular being armed with a space ship equipped with planet buster missiles.

I did not exclude anyone, you just assumed I did.
I did not live a life of luxury like you did, I did not have an "easy" life. I suffer every single day. I suffer from GERD, I have mental issues that threaten to make me lose my mind, I have had my heart destroyed by supposed lovers dozens of times (I've attempted suicide because of those break ups as well), by family, and by supposed friends. But do I stop trying to be good? No I don't.

I did not come here to insult anyone, but you have certainly done so to me without KNOWING my intent OR WHAT I LIVED COMPARED TO YOURS!
If you want to hate a God, fine. You want to blame a being because you can't understand the why? Thats completely within your rights as a Free Human to do so. I appreciate life as I get it & I try to teach other people see that instead living a life of hatred for a being they know nothing about. Even hating another person that is real & flesh just like you serves no one - living with constant hate in no life at all.

 

[Tabu]

God didn't create sorrow , sorrow is the result of our own misdeeds .
He is the Loving and caring Father who shows His children the way out during their grief.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Do you want me to join you in your pointless hate? Seriously think about this. If God is as Evil as you believe, regardless of what we think, we can't do anything about.

We are a people with sticks who would stand no chance against a singular being armed with a space ship equipped with planet buster missiles.

I did not exclude anyone, you just assumed I did.
I did not live a life of luxury like you did, I did not have an "easy" life. I suffer every single day. I suffer from GERD, I have mental issues that threaten to make me lose my mind, I have had my heart destroyed by supposed lovers dozens of times (I've attempted suicide because of those break ups as well), by family, and by supposed friends. But do I stop trying to be good? No I don't.

I did not come here to insult anyone, but you have certainly done so to me without KNOWING my intent OR WHAT I LIVED COMPARED TO YOURS!
If you want to hate a God, fine. You want to blame a being because you can't understand the why? Thats completely within your rights as a Free Human to do so. I appreciate life as I get it & I try to teach other people see that instead living a life of hatred for a being they know nothing about. Even hating another person that is real & flesh just like you serves no one - living with constant hate in no life at all.

I did not mean to insult you. I am just pointing out that regardless of how much you continued on and persevered through a life of suffering and hardship (you not giving up on trying to be a good person), this still does not negate my own personal take on suffering being cruel, pointless, life destroying, etc. and how such a God would also be cruel to inflict such suffering regardless of the intention of this God in doing so.

Any intention that anyone tries to make good out of in a God who would inflict such suffering, this is only a mask that covers the true hideous face of God. My opening post was a means to remove that mask.

 

[Gyrannon]

So all it takes to suffer is to not get what one would like. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?

So you'd rather that you have zero challenges, zero effort, and zero self achievement?

Explain why the challenge of hardship makes life worth living. Thing is, I know of quite a few people who have gone through life without a single hardship, and believe me, they find their life very worth living.

Imagine everything is just handed to you with no effort involved, no learning, no direction, just have it when you please.
Even do away with sicknesses, death, losing to anything & anyone, take away EVERYTHING that would make your life even microscopically difficult.


My view: Take the challenge away and everything becomes pointless an boring.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

So you'd rather that you have zero challenges, zero effort, and zero self achievement?



Imagine everything is just handed to you with no effort involved, no learning, no direction, just have it when you please.
Even do away with sicknesses, death, losing to anything & anyone, take away EVERYTHING that would make your life even microscopically difficult.


My view: Take the challenge away and everything becomes pointless an boring.

That's just your own personal view. That does not apply to everyone. Some people only value a life that is blissful, free of suffering/misery, and only consists of happy and fun challenges and no painful/miserable challenges. Everyone is different and if there is a God out there, then a loving God would adhere and attend to each individual's values and needs providing that those said values and needs do not commit evils such as the harming of other innocent people and living things. I am such an innocent person. Therefore, if there was truly a loving God, then this God should of protected me from the suffering and misery that I am going through in my life right now. In the past, my life was blissful. But now it has drastically changed and is now a miserable life not worth living.

 

[Skwim]

God didn't create sorrow , sorrow is the result of our own misdeeds .

Let me see. My child is killed at school in a mass shooting and my sorrow over it is because I did what? In some way I was instrumental in the shooting? All the parents of all the victims were?

He is the Loving and caring Father who shows His children the way out during their grief.

How about the grief of slavery. Or is being enslaved a blessing?

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
​

Not at thing about this loving and caring Father showing such a slave the way out during their grief.

​

.

 

[Quintessence]

A message more to others reading the thread than it's maker:

Mind the stories you are telling yourself, mind the stories you choose to listen to, and mind the stories that you tell to others.

That is all.

 

[Gyrannon]

My opening post was a means to remove that mask.

Again though, what does it matter? Say you succeed in removing the Mask from God, say he is revealed to be a truly heartless being. But then we find out that he is still the being that created us & can easily destroy us with little effort if he wanted & we could do absolutely nothing about?

If he isn't real, oh well. If he is real an we stand against him, our efforts are pointless & futile.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Again though, what does it matter? Say you succeed in removing the Mask from God, say he is revealed to be a truly heartless being. But then we find out that he is still the being that created us & can easily destroy us with little effort if he wanted & we could do absolutely nothing about?

If he isn't real, oh well. If he is real an we stand against him, our efforts are pointless & futile.

Yes, you are right. But many people think that if there is a God who would cause us suffering, that this would somehow be a loving God and this topic I have made is a means to debunk this nonsensical claim.

 

[Skwim]

So you'd rather that you have zero challenges, zero effort, and zero self achievement?

So now you're equating suffering with challenges. This is getting more bizarre with every post, and I have no desire to contend with your moving goal posts. Have a good day.


.