Millennials, Please Just Shut Up

[icehorse]

I can't claim any real expertise on this topic, but I watched most of the "Brexit" documentary. If I recall correctly, many of the top EU bureaucrats are appointed for life and cannot be ousted? If that's true, it seems like a recipe for disaster and I'd have voted to exit on that point alone.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Where are Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, etc. are in these days of turmoil?

My guess is that they're holed up somewhere, with saying, "OMG, You Won!" and the rest saying "OMG! We Won!" And now they're trying to figure out how they will actually go about doing what the citizens marginally voted in favor of...

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I wouldn't have cared. I was prepared for a 'remain' vote, actually. Nobody can predict where this will lead, least of all me. I would have not moaned and whined and posted my misery all over twitter, disregarding my nationality and saying I'm a 'European not a Brit'. They have taken their whining too far.

I'm sure they'll take this on board and make sure any future displays of emotion are within standard acceptable deviations.

Just because I voted Leave doesn't mean I worship Farage.

He's still a/the leading voice for the Brexit campaign at the end of the day - despite his phony claims of ostracism. His and the behaviour of other supporters of the winning side has gone beyond the realms of poor taste. We have at least one poster here openly rejoicing in "salty Remainer tears" and another condemning others' 'bad attitudes' for daring to express emotion. And we've got Little Englanders engaging in more casual Scottish racism since they've heard we're seeking Indy Ref 2.

Seriously, all we're missing now are the 'Heil' salutes and it'll be George Square, 19 September 2014 all over again.

 

[Debater Slayer]

the referendum probably shouldn't have happened at all. We, the British people, were systematically misinformed from start to finish and when they ran out of things to discuss they used fear and hate to get us to vote for positions we didn't understand. It's a lesson in how not to run a democracy at least.

The thing is that manipulation of people to vote this or that way is a necessary evil of democracy. It's going to happen no matter how well the democracy is run. The other important question to ask is whether democracy is worth taking that risk for.

In my view, in less educated countries, there should be more constraints on democracy so as to be extra sure that the will of the majority can't override justice, (non-voting) freedoms, or the safety of any law-abiding citizens. This is especially true of religiously conservative countries, like several countries in the Middle East.

Do you feel comfortable with one party states if they were composed of experts?

Not at all. Experts can still be biased, and sometimes dangerously so. Even under a benevolent dictatorship, I'd want political and ideological diversity.

The U.S. is an example of why a one- or even two-party system is a practical failure.

 

[Altfish]

My guess is that they're holed up somewhere, with saying, "OMG, You Won!" and the rest saying "OMG! We Won!" And now they're trying to figure out how they will actually go about doing what the citizens marginally voted in favor of...

They will be thinking, "How can we go back on all the promises we made to the electorate?" "How can we tell them that it wasn't really £350m a week?" "How can we tell them the NHS won't get any more money?" "How do we break it to them that immigration levels will stay the same or maybe continue to rise"
They will also be thinking, "Thank god that Labour and Corbyn are a total waste of time"

 

[Debater Slayer]

Also, if someone is 20 years old and votes to remain in the EU because he or she believes that is in their best interests and then they find out that many of the people who voted "leave" are in their 70s and 80s and would most likely not be around to see the effects of the vote two or three decades from now, would you really blame him or her for being upset? I wouldn't.

 

[Altfish]

I can't claim any real expertise on this topic, but I watched most of the "Brexit" documentary. If I recall correctly, many of the top EU bureaucrats are appointed for life and cannot be ousted? If that's true, it seems like a recipe for disaster and I'd have voted to exit on that point alone.

It is no different from British civil servants; job for life and a gong at the end to go with a great pension.

 

[Rival]

Also, if you someone is 20 years old and votes to remain in the EU because he or she believes that is in their best interests and then they find out that many of the people who voted "leave" are in their 70s and 80s and would most likely not be around to see the effects of the vote two or three decades from now, would you really blame him or her for being upset? I wouldn't.

There's upset and then there's throwing a temper tantrum. I wasn't particularly happy when the Conservatives won the General Election but I didn't take to the streets and create a petition to try to out them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

There's upset and then there's throwing a temper tantrum. I wasn't particularly happy when the Conservatives won the General Election but I didn't take tot he streets and create a petition to try to out them.

Taking to the streets and creating a petition to try to out them is a legal right they have, correct?

 

[Rival]

I mean, I honest to God know of one person voting 'Remain' because she thought all the Italian restaurants would disappear if we voted Leave. This is just nonsensical.

 

[Rival]

Taking to the streets and creating a petition to try to out them is a legal right they have, correct?

Yes, but what's it going to change? Why bother?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yes, but what's it going to change? Why bother?

If the UK is indeed democratic, why would it be far-fetched to think that such a petition could set any change in motion?

 

[Rival]

If the UK is indeed democratic, why would it be far-fetched to think that such a petition could set any change in motion?

It could and that's the point of it. But why? The British public has spoken and they want out. Another referendum isn't going to change that. It's more about getting their own way.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yes, but what's it going to change? Why bother?

Because they can still influence exactly when and how policy is going to be implemented by keeping it a public debate, which will affect the elected officials who now have the responsibility for implementing the decision. Politics doesn't end because a decision has been made, it many ways, it's just started: now those in office, in charge of implementing, know that a sizeable fraction of the population--almost enough to vote them out next time around--will be watching, and ready to pounce if there's any screwup. Exactly what the reverse would be had "remain" won...

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

It could and that's the point of it. But why? The British public has spoken and they want out. Another referendum isn't going to change that. It's more about getting their own way.

The British public has spoken, and about 51 percent want out, and 49 percent want in...so the 49 percent should just roll over? And in a year's time, another referendum might well go the other way, depending in large part how the new PM and cabinet handle things.

 

[Rival]

Look, I'm basically saying a decent response would be "Oh, okay we lost. Well, let's see how we can make the best of our new situation and get on with our lives," rather than whining and crying about it.

 

[Rival]

The British public has spoken, and about 51 percent want out, and 49 percent want in...so the 49 percent should just roll over?

Yes. Because they lost. Leave won fair and square. That's the long and short of it.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yes. Because they lost. Leave won fair and square. That's the long and short of it.

You have a very different view of how democracy works than I do.

 

[Laika]

Yes, but what's it going to change? Why bother?

There is an illusion that It may "prevent" a decade or so of economic and political instability in the UK and trying to put the cork back in the bottle with the unraveling of the Union in Scotland or even Northern Ireland. But it's the last gasp of a generation that is already going to suffer through climate change, growing income inequality, the decline of the middle class, reduced living standards and economic opportunity. These are things that- pending a miracle- will pretty much happen anyway. The fallout on Brexit is on top of that and its not surprising the younger generation want to kick off.

If I wasn't so resigned to it I would want to fight back (I'd be struggling with the question of "how" as there is no lever to sort this stuff out) but it's all built on the illusion that we have a choice at all. We were either going to go down slowly in the EU or quickly outside of it. we took the quick route and may take a fair amount of the U.K. And Europe with us if the government screws it up and financial markets have a nervous breakdown and start calling in debts. The problem is we have an economic and political system that is geared towards undermining many of the freedoms and comforts of the previous generation. It a system in self-destruct mode and on any rational level it's only natural to be appalled by it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It could and that's the point of it. But why? The British public has spoken and they want out. Another referendum isn't going to change that. It's more about getting their own way.

Which "British public"? This British public?

That confusion over what Brexit might mean for the country's economy appears to have been reflected across the United Kingdom on Thursday. Google reported sharp upticks in searches not only related to the ballot measure but also about basic questions concerning the implications of the vote. At about 1 a.m. Eastern time, about eight hours after the polls closed, Google reported that searches for "what happens if we leave the EU" had more than tripled.

Or this British public?

GoogleTrends
✔@GoogleTrends
"What is the EU?" is the second top UK question on the EU since the #EURefResults were officially announced

1:25 PM - 24 Jun 2016

(Source.)

Yeah, I'd probably support a petition to change things too if I knew that many votes that could change my future were cast by people who were googling "What happens if we leave the EU?" several hours after the closure of the polls.