War Against God?

[dave_]

I disagree. Most moral people don't need reasons to be moral. It's their nature.

But there is no morality in the nature.It is imposed on us by society by using fear.If you give someone lots of power and they are fearless eventualy they will become "corrupt"

 

[dave_]

Okay; their "reasons" for being moral may include: that they believe that people should be good to each other; that people should do to others as they would want others to do to them; because they believe people are basically good, and if treated with respect, will mostly behave with respect toward others; that acting in your own self-interest without regard to others is wrong.

But why do they believe those?Because they like their good lives and those beliefs support their nice way of lives.Threaten to ruin their lives and then see if they are still remain that nice.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Well i love my people and hate my enemies.How can i love myself and my people if i don't hate and fight with my enemies?

Why do you hate? Why do you fight? Why are some "your people" and others "your enemies."

 

[Aiviu]

I am talking about the abrahamic god.In the past you couldn't even say anything against god or you will be brutally killed.The people of the abraham did what they wanted , killed raped etc.This is still true for some backward parts of the world where abrahamic god is still powerful.

I don't buy the idea that the god is good its just that humans did wrong , because the seed is known by its fruit.The highest manifestation of something always dominates.Now if they are so loving couldn't they dominate the wrong ones they should know better after all.

Anyway when i look at the world of today luciferian ideas are dominating.Lucifer is dominating and as the god is getting weaker we are truly getting to our true potential.Humanity is thriving we are not as weak minded as we are slowly awakening.By lucifer i mean the perfected human being.

So do you think humanity can win the war against god and be truly free or god can still enslave us?

Is love to enslave you? Or is it for what you fall?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

But why do they believe those?Because they like their good lives and those beliefs support their nice way of lives.Threaten to ruin their lives and then see if they are still remain that nice.

Defending oneself, others, and even imposing order on the unruly are not necessarily inconsistent. In the "do unto others" vein, I personally expect that if I violate the agreed-upon rules of society, then I should expect consequences for my actions to be imposed by the other members of the society of which I am a part. But I also expect that I myself, and everyone else in society, will have pretty much freedom to decide and pursue what is our own idea of the good life--as long as it doesn't interfere with others' attempts.

I also expect people not to fight with each other, and if they do, to expect others to defend themselves, others, and society as a whole.

Yes, I like my good life; I am willing to fight and die if necessary to defend my good life; I'm even willing to have rules in society to discourage those who would disrupt society and people's chosen good lives because "we are the enemy" of someone else.

 

[Acim]

Most moral people don't need reasons to be moral. It's their nature.

Then I don't think this is morality that is being referenced.

Always odd that claims exist around 'not being natural.' Arguably, everyone is being moral, as it is their nature. No?

 

[Acim]

I am talking about the abrahamic god.In the past you couldn't even say anything against god or you will be brutally killed.The people of the abraham did what they wanted , killed raped etc.This is still true for some backward parts of the world where abrahamic god is still powerful.

I don't buy the idea that the god is good its just that humans did wrong , because the seed is known by its fruit.The highest manifestation of something always dominates.Now if they are so loving couldn't they dominate the wrong ones they should know better after all.

Anyway when i look at the world of today luciferian ideas are dominating.Lucifer is dominating and as the god is getting weaker we are truly getting to our true potential.Humanity is thriving we are not as weak minded as we are slowly awakening.By lucifer i mean the perfected human being.

So do you think humanity can win the war against god and be truly free or god can still enslave us?

From what I am intellectually understanding in what you are conveying and asking about, I see it as a matter of perspective. It seems very clear that not all believers in an Abrahamic God have the same perspective. Would you agree?

With that said, and with myself being in vein of gnostic path toward Abrahamic God, my response to your question is there has never been a war against God. Not even close. But there have been competing perspectives regarding which doctrines are best to control people, which at times may be seen as justifiable for enslaving minds to maintain rigid control. This battle was lost before it even got started. Might take awhile, or high degree of honest awareness, to see that battle has long ago been overcome. Awhile could possibly equal billions of years. Or what is not even a blip on the radar in eternity.

Btw, Lucifer as Light Bringer, works for me.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The classic problem of ''where does the morality come from'', for atheists.

Why is this a 'problem'??? I've seen more amoral and immoral theists than atheists. They seem to be less hypocritical as well. The problem is mostly with the theists that can't keep it in their pants and who have no problem condemning innocents all the while speaking out against abortion. I find that moral dichotomy rather disgusting.

 

[Father Heathen]

God and how people perceive and portray god are two completely different things. If there is a god, that doesn't make the things that mortals have presumed and projected upon such an entity true. In other words, religions reflect far more upon the cultures they've originated from than they do upon any actual god. So our actual issues are with these self-appointed middlemen rather than with god.

 

[Acim]

Why is this a 'problem'??? I've seen more amoral and immoral theists than atheists.

The 'problem' within context of the (side) discussion is that how would anyone know who is being moral or amoral unless there was reasoning involved to distinguish between the two? Between right and wrong.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The 'problem' within context of the (side) discussion is that how would anyone know who is being moral or amoral unless there was reasoning involved to distinguish between the two? Between right and wrong.

Most of the world is atheist. Morality is as much a function of evolution as it is theology. The evolution derived morality is arguably superior to the theologically derived morality.

 

[Father Heathen]

The classic problem of ''where does the morality come from'', for atheists.


don't expect a logical answer btw

Morality comes from ones capacity for compassion and ability to reason. It's an innate part of our humanity.

If you're only "moral" because you desire reward or fear punishment in the afterlife then you're not actually a moral person.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I am talking about the abrahamic god.In the past you couldn't even say anything against god or you will be brutally killed.The people of the abraham did what they wanted , killed raped etc.This is still true for some backward parts of the world where abrahamic god is still powerful.

I don't buy the idea that the god is good its just that humans did wrong , because the seed is known by its fruit.The highest manifestation of something always dominates.Now if they are so loving couldn't they dominate the wrong ones they should know better after all.

Anyway when i look at the world of today luciferian ideas are dominating.Lucifer is dominating and as the god is getting weaker we are truly getting to our true potential.Humanity is thriving we are not as weak minded as we are slowly awakening.By lucifer i mean the perfected human being.

So do you think humanity can win the war against god and be truly free or god can still enslave us?

You need to contemplate the meaning of free will.

 

[Father Heathen]

The 'problem' within context of the (side) discussion is that how would anyone know who is being moral or amoral unless there was reasoning involved to distinguish between the two? Between right and wrong.

"I believe that an invisible man lives in the clouds, so you know that you can trust me."

So how does that logic work, exactly?

 

[Acim]

Most of the world is atheist. Morality is as much a function of evolution as it is theology. The evolution derived morality is arguably superior to the theologically derived morality.

I agree it is arguably superior. I'd love to have that argument. Either way, you seem to be agreeing that it is based on Reason, rather than some elusive concept such as 'nature.'

 

[Acim]

Morality comes from ones capacity for compassion and ability to reason. It's an innate part of our humanity.

If you're only "moral" because you desire reward or fear punishment in the afterlife then you're not actually a moral person.

I take OP's assertion about morality being associated with fear having to do with fear of man's law (which may or may not be inspired by religious doctrine). The question for any society is always around how to deal with the amoral people. Pretty easy to love the ones you already love. But how do we collectively deal with so called enemies (of the state)? I observe by instituting some form of punishment, and making that as well known as possible. Keeping people in line based on the notion that if you get out of line, you'll be punished.

As if punishment is not based on some, rather strange, notion about God / gods / nature.

 

[George-ananda]

But looking at the nature isn't it cruel.Doesn't animals kill , steal , are selfish etc.So if we are to be one with the God-Creation-Nature aren't we also to be that way?

No, that's not the way I see it. Man is between the animal and the divine. To become more advanced, humans which should cultivate their divine nature; one of love and oneness with others. I also believe that the one following his divine nature will be happier than the one following his animal nature.

 

[Father Heathen]

So if some one disagrees with you about what ''morality'' is, you're going to accept that as their innate ability to reason and compassion?.

It isn't universal, but easy to deduce what is and isn't rational and substantiated. Cause and effect. Besides, it doesn't appear that theists agree on morality either, hence the thousands of different religions, each with thousands of different denominational/sectarian divisions. The bottom line is that being a good person doesn't require hocus pocus.

 

[Father Heathen]

I take OP's assertion about morality being associated with fear having to do with fear of man's law (which may or may not be inspired by religious doctrine). The question for any society is always around how to deal with the amoral people. Pretty easy to love the ones you already love. But how do we collectively deal with so called enemies (of the state)? I observe by instituting some form of punishment, and making that as well known as possible. Keeping people in line based on the notion that if you get out of line, you'll be punished.

As if punishment is not based on some, rather strange, notion about God / gods / nature.

Well of course society requires order. Who could argue otherwise? The concern should be that laws are fair and just.

 

[Acim]

It isn't universal, but easy to deduce what is and isn't rational and substantiated. Besides, it doesn't appear that theists agree on morality either, hence the thousands of different religions, each with thousands of different denominational/sectarian divisions. The bottom line is that being a good person doesn't require hocus pocus.

Depends on how one is defining / using 'hocus pocus.'