Why the Hell . . . .

[Skwim]

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Of course great thinkers disagree and they can't all be right. As a Mormon (which is Christian) I have several areas where I disagree with certain aspects of what has become mainstream Christian thought. My concept of hell is in some ways significantly different from other Christians. And if I took the time to explain my view, I think it would diffuse many atheist objections to hell. But I don't think you would admit that yes that is a more reasonable concept of hell and yes you can see how such a place could be part of the plan of a benevolent God. Maybe you would surprise me, but I doubt it. Your approach is so typical of what I see here. People act like Christians have never thought this stuff through and will have to run and hide the first time a reasonable person makes a contrary argument. Perhaps that's the case for some Christians, but not for this one.

Truthfully, many Christians don't give hell and its implications much thought at all. I know the more moderate denominations such as Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Congregational, and Episcopal rarely get into the subject.

I want to be very clear. Your challenge to "hell" is not the least bit discomforting to me and your line of thought is not the least bit persuasive.

Okey dokey.

And why is it that non-believers are so anxious to ascribe negative motives to those who disagree?

I wasn't aware they were. Just what negative motives are you thinking of?

How in the world would you know if your thread is discomforting to me? For you to suggest such is like me suggesting that the reason you post things against Christianity is because deep down in your heart you know it's true and you feel guilt for denying it.

Whoa, there big fella. Settle down and put your reading glasses on. I said "What I suspect is that the question is discomforting, and you would prefer that it never appeared." I assume you know the difference between "suspect" and an assertion of fact. Even "suspect" and your "suggest" have very different meanings.

And if we want to play psychologist, I think those who loudly mock the views of others do so because of insecurity in their own position, Atheists around here spend far, far more time mocking Christianity than I mock atheism.

I think, NOT KNOW, , that too many believers are unable to take the smallest criticism of their beliefs OR have its inconsistencies pointed out. They like to tout the truth of their beliefs, but fold when anyone starts to question it, and often retaliate, not with counter argument, but ad hom attacks. I've found that most Christians are pretty poor defenders of their faith. Not that I really blame them; Christianity is rife with vexing inconsistencies and stumbling blocks.

My behavior demonstrates a more sure conviction and peace with myself, who I am, and what I believe. I don't like talking like this, because it can sound arrogant. But I feel that I have to when my beliefs are ignorantly belittled and my motives are incorrectly challenged.

Perhaps what you see as ignorant are simply points you're failing to understand, and the belittling as points you're unable see as having merit. Perhaps.

My suggestion is that when you come across such bothersome postings you ignore them and move on. (Now that's a suggestion and not a suspicion.)


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[Scott C.]

My suggestion is that when you come across such bothersome postings you ignore them and move on.

I interpret such posts as ridicule with no attempt to understand. If my interpretation is right, then yes I should ignore and move on. If I'm misinterpreting then I would like to engage.

 

[InChrist]

Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?


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Choice...people have the option to either trust God and spend eternity in His presence or follow Satan and be eternally separated from God.

 

[Skwim]

Choice...people have the option to either trust God and spend eternity in His presence or follow Satan and be eternally separated from God.

Whaaaa? God puts people in hell so they would have choice???? You do understand the question don't you? "Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?"


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[InChrist]

Whaaaa? God puts people in hell so they would have choice???? You do understand the question don't you? "Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?"


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The confinement and separation of sin from the rest of the universe is accomplished. Those who end up there choose to, refusing God's love and eternal life with Him, instead choosing to follow Satan.

 

[Skwim]

The confinement and separation of sin from the rest of the universe is accomplished.

But so far sin continues to go on, so I don't see any confinement and separation of sin from the rest of the universe.


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[ThePainefulTruth]

The confinement and separation of sin from the rest of the universe is accomplished.

Wouldn't oblivion be a more humane way of separation? Unless the suffering of sinners provides something positive, for....well....who WOULD that benefit?

Those who end up there choose to, refusing God's love and eternal life with Him, instead choosing to follow Satan.

Hell, just as the Bible and all divine revelation, is hearsay. Declaring it in a pompous manner don't make it anything other than pompously declared hearsay.

BTW, "In Christ" is nothing but a phrase used by Paul to meld his version of the Jewish sect of the followers of Jesus with the pagan Mithraism from his boyhood city (and center of Roman Mithraism) of Tarsus. That's probably why the author of Revelation encoded the number of the Beast as the Gematria number for Tarsus, six-hundred threescore and six--not in the anachronistic Arabic numerals, 666. Let him who has wisdom understand.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Choice...people have the option to either trust God and spend eternity in His presence or follow Satan and be eternally separated from God.

How do you trust someone who gives you no other option but to live in heaven or suffer in hell?

 

[Domenic]

It's said that hell was originally created as a place for Satan and his angels. (From what a lot of Christians have said, evidently Satan hasn't found his way there yet, as he's still leading us good humans astray.) Fine, but then god decided to use hell as a final resting place for those of us who fail to toe his line.

So what's the deal here? Was hell going to waste with no Satan to burn? Or does god simply get a kick out of making people suffer?

Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?
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You need to learn the scriptures. The word hell has been explained to you, yet you stick by the fairy tale of it being a place of suffering. Either you are just trying to be hard headed, of lack an understanding of what you think you know. Once again: The word hell comes from the word Hades...which means the common grave of mankind.. We all go into the grave when we die. There is no suffering in death. There is nothing. Read this scripture on the condition of the dead: Ecelesiastes 9:5

 

[Skwim]

You need to learn the scriptures. The word hell has been explained to you, yet you stick by the fairy tale of it being a place of suffering.

Yeah, I forgot what a good time there's to be had in hell.

Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Matthew 13:50
50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43
43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Jude 1:7
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 13:42
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.​

Of course, if you choose to call this something other than "hell," that's up to you. I really don't care. What I do know is that the Bible does promise a whole lot of suffering for those who don't toe god's line. Poor souls who will be weeping and gnashing their teeth in the fiery lake of burning sulfur for all eternity. Nice guy, this god of yours. . . . . . . . . . .I assume the god of Abraham is your god.


QUESTION.
Out of curiosity, just what is your name for this place where poor souls will be weeping and gnashing their teeth in the fiery lake of burning sulfur for all eternity, if it isn't "hell"?


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[InChrist]

How do you trust someone who gives you no other option but to live in heaven or suffer in hell?

What if those are the only possible options?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What if those are the only possible options?

Would you rather a person be unhappy in heaven or be mature to go to hell knowing he was happy in his faith and his time on earth?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

What if those are the only possible options?

There's a Hereafter or oblivion, much more humane and less distressing when you think about it.

 

[Draka]

Choice...people have the option to either trust God and spend eternity in His presence or follow Satan and be eternally separated from God.

And people who cognitively cannot believe in your god? That no matter how much they try, they simply cannot break the bounds of logic and cannot believe in that god? Belief is not merely a choice you know. It is a logical process of the brain. Weighing knowledge and experience constantly. Those of other religions, or no religion at all, believe such because they have been given cause to. They arrived at such stances religiously because they could simply not do otherwise. They are not following your "Satan" simply because they aren't following your god. You would think that an intelligent being would understand that much. If your god is an intelligent being then it wouldn't punish those restricted from believing in it due to their own brain and psychology. Especially given the belief that your god supposedly created everything, including us.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

And people who cognitively cannot believe in your god? That no matter how much they try, they simply cannot break the bounds of logic and cannot believe in that god? Belief is not merely a choice you know. It is a logical process of the brain. Weighing knowledge and experience constantly. Those of other religions, or no religion at all, believe such because they have been given cause to. They arrived at such stances religiously because they could simply not do otherwise. They are not following your "Satan" simply because they aren't following your god. You would think that an intelligent being would understand that much. If your god is an intelligent being then it wouldn't punish those restricted from believing in it due to their own brain and psychology. Especially given the belief that your god supposedly created everything, including us.

Yes, as Jefferson said, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

Draka, I consider myself one who pursues the Truth, so I gotta ask, is there a particular meaning to "The Lasso of Truth", where I notice you also capitalize Truth?

 

[Draka]

Draka, I consider myself one who pursues the Truth, so I gotta ask, is there a particular meaning to "The Lasso of Truth", where I notice you also capitalize Truth?

You're the second person who has asked me that. No. Was just using Wonder Woman's main weapon and it is capitalized because it is the name of the weapon and is thus capitalized. It kind of fits in a way though. I like to get to the heart of things, the truth. Both for myself and pushing others to be truthful as well. As for the "Truth" in spiritual regards, I hold that while there may be one, we cannot know it in its entirety. We all may have glimpses of it, but not the whole picture. Like a puzzle where the pieces are split up among people. None of us know the real picture, just what we think it is based upon what pieces we have. Only by analyzing all the pieces, those of others as well, can we begin to get a better idea of what the puzzle is depicting.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

You're the second person who has asked me that. No. Was just using Wonder Woman's main weapon and it is capitalized because it is the name of the weapon and is thus capitalized. It kind of fits in a way though. I like to get to the heart of things, the truth. Both for myself and pushing others to be truthful as well. As for the "Truth" in spiritual regards, I hold that while there may be one, we cannot know it in its entirety. We all may have glimpses of it, but not the whole picture. Like a puzzle where the pieces are split up among people. None of us know the real picture, just what we think it is based upon what pieces we have. Only by analyzing all the pieces, those of others as well, can we begin to get a better idea of what the puzzle is depicting.

Well, that puts Wonder Woman at the top of the heap of superheroes in my book. I didn't even know she had such a lasso. Was is used in the TV series? All I really remember is her deflecting bullets with her wrist guards, and that she was pretty hot. The only comics I read much were off the beaten path, mainly Uncle Scroge. He had some great adventures, and he was an honorable capitalist. Most people only remember him from DuckTales which trashed the whole idea.

As for Truth, I've been hard at it for over 20 years, and I think I've come up with a couple of determinations. I equate God with Truth, even if that Truth isn't a supernatural sentient being. That's why I capitalize it. I thought I'd really done good until I discovered that Gandhi had come up with the same idea long before I was even born. (Sigh.)

But the other thing helps me conceptualize Truth very well. It's that there are four (maybe more but none I've been able to think of) aspects of Truth: knowledge, justice, love and beauty. The former is pure objective Truth (science), and the latter is pure subjective Truth (art), with the other two being where objective and subjective overlap. I know it sounds sort of simplistic, but it's held up; and when you think of it, it sort of makes sense that it would be simple, though delving into those aspects rarely is.

FWIW, and thanks for your response.

 

[jeager106]

Just my opinion but it must be easier to deny a deity that to investigate if there
is one (or are any).
Kind of lazy thinking in my world view.
An atheist need not believe, pray, consider, human existence.
Why, I would ask, though out human history has mankind felt a need
to worship something greater than man?
Innate perhaps? Why do humans need to make meaning??????????????
See:
www.philosophytalk.org/shows/worship

Worship is the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for something. The attitude of worship towards God or ... make human life ... of worship needs to ...

 

[jeager106]

Just my opinion but it must be easier to deny a deity that to investigate if there
is one (or are any).
Kind of lazy thinking in my world view.
An atheist need not believe, pray, consider, human existence.
Why, I would ask, though out human history has mankind felt a need
to worship something greater than man?
Innate perhaps? Why do humans need to make meaning??????????????
See:
www.philosophytalk.org/shows/worship

Worship is the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for something. The attitude of worship towards God or ... make human life ... of worship needs to ...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Who are you asking?

I quoted InChrist. You can answer too. Maybe you have s different perspective.