Women are not second class citizens in Catholicism.

[Spiderman]

Jesus treated men and women, equally. The Catholic Church actually treats women less equitably, than its men. I think I'll just follow Jesus.

What do you think of Jesus picking 12 men to be His Apostles?

 

[Spiderman]

Would you be flattered if you were treated like a delicate ornament that had to be protected and revered your whole life, to the point where you had no voice or agency of your own?

Putting women on pedestals deprives them of their own voice and agency. That's why it's sexist.

No I wouldn't. That is a good point.

But the difference is they aren't delicate. They are warriors who are destroying the forces of evil and influencing the world. Who doesn't want power and authority? Who doesn't want to be recognized, applauded, and leave a legacy of helping, healing, defending people, and dying for their beliefs?

Would you want to leave a legacy that people held you in their hearts generation after generation or just be forgotten?

 

[Riverwolf]

No I wouldn't. That is a good point.

But the difference is they aren't delicate. They are warriors who are destroying the forces of evil and influencing the world.

I hail Iceni-Queen Boudica, who fought for freedom against the imperial Romans.

I hail Gráinne Mhaol, Ireland's Pirate Queen, who fought against the imperial British.

But I don't hail them just because they're women. I hail them because they represent a fight against imperial authority. They're hailed neither above nor below the likes of Cherusci-King Herman and Robin Hood, but equal to them. Boudica set London on fire, no doubt killing innocents, including children and elders. Gráinne Mhaol kidnapped a child, and IIRC had a nasty personality.

Because they're people.

Who doesn't want power and authority.

Me.

Who doesn't want to be recognized, applauded, and leave a legacy of helping, healing, defending people, and dying for their beliefs.

Me.

Would you want to leave a legacy that people held you in their hearts generation after generation or just be forgotten?

Let me put it like this. I do not want to be remembered for myself. I'm totally okay with being forgotten within a few generations.

I'm far more content with being the anonymous builder of Stonehenge. Sure, I'm forgotten; all knowledge of my name, face, gender, and personality to be lost to the mists of Time, but by the Gods, I bloody built Stonehenge!

 

[Spiderman]

I hail Iceni-Queen Boudica, who fought for freedom against the imperial Romans.

I hail Gráinne Mhaol, Ireland's Pirate Queen, who fought against the imperial British.

But I don't hail them just because they're women. I hail them because they represent a fight against imperial authority. They're hailed neither above nor below the likes of Cherusci-King Herman and Robin Hood, but equal to them. Boudica set London on fire, no doubt killing innocents, including children and elders. Gráinne Mhaol kidnapped a child, and IIRC had a nasty personality.

Because they're people.



Me.



Me.



Let me put it like this. I do not want to be remembered for myself. I'm totally okay with being forgotten within a few generations.

I'm far more content with being the anonymous builder of Stonehenge. Sure, I'm forgotten; all knowledge of my name, face, gender, and personality to be lost to the mists of Time, but by the Gods, I bloody built Stonehenge!

You said you don't want authority yet you are a moderator?

Just kiddin!

I admire your humility and so does God. You don't want much attention and recognition which is a very noble quality. Some people have the integrity that they do what is good and are without care of whether it affects their legacy.

But what if you were a healer? What about a teacher with wisdom and understanding that could positively affect people worldwide? What if you could make the lame walk, the blind see, the deaf hear, the lunatic sane etc. Wouldn't you want people to come to you for help?

 

[Riverwolf]

You said you don't want authority yet you are a moderator?

Just kiddin!

I admire your humility and so does God. You don't want much attention and recognition which is a very noble quality. Some people have the integrity that they do what is good and are without care of whether it affects their legacy.

I do wish to point out that I don't consider caring about one's legacy and reputation to be inherently negative qualities. Only when they come at someone else's unwilling expense.

My reasons for disliking attention stem from the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome/High-Functioning Autism.

But what if you were a healer?

I'm not.

What about a teacher with wisdom and understanding that could positively affect people worldwide?

The wisdom and understanding, then, are what should be remembered, not me.

Tomorrow will take us away,
Far from home;
No one will ever know our names,
But be Bardsongs will remain.​

What if you could make the lame walk, the blind see, the deaf hear, the lunatic sane etc. Wouldn't you want people to come to you for help?

Could I do those things from behind a mask and voice filter, please? I get a certain impish joy from knowing things that nobody else knows.

EDIT: Hm... that'd make a pretty interesting anime. If some average dude got Jesus's healing powers.

 

[The Ardent Atheist]

The highest venerated woman in Catholicism, Mary, is nothing but a glorified womb.

 

[Spiderman]

I do wish to point out that I don't consider caring about one's legacy and reputation to be inherently negative qualities. Only when they come at someone else's unwilling expense.

My reasons for disliking attention stem from the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome/High-Functioning Autism.



I'm not.



The wisdom and understanding, then, are what should be remembered, not me.

Tomorrow will take us away,
Far from home;
No one will ever know our names,
But be Bardsongs will remain.​

Could I do those things from behind a mask and voice filter, please? I get a certain impish joy from knowing things that nobody else knows.

EDIT: Hm... that'd make a pretty interesting anime. If some average dude got Jesus's healing powers.

Yes, getting put on a pedestal can be annoying but it also empowers a person and so if the Church had disda

I do wish to point out that I don't consider caring about one's legacy and reputation to be inherently negative qualities. Only when they come at someone else's unwilling expense.

My reasons for disliking attention stem from the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome/High-Functioning Autism.



I'm not.



The wisdom and understanding, then, are what should be remembered, not me.

Tomorrow will take us away,
Far from home;
No one will ever know our names,
But be Bardsongs will remain.​

Could I do those things from behind a mask and voice filter, please? I get a certain impish joy from knowing things that nobody else knows.

EDIT: Hm... that'd make a pretty interesting anime. If some average dude got Jesus's healing powers.

You might not be a healer but every canonized Saint must do so in order to get canonized, and doctors have confirmed that they have.

Btw, I have symptoms of Asperger's and people have told me I have that as well.

Speaking of anime, I had a dream that a girl was crying and led me to some Japanese soldiers, and told me to become a POW of the Japanese, that if I surrender to them, they will make sure I do God's will , even if they have to poke me with bayonets for my own good, and they will make sure Im no longer be a POW of Satan.

Shortly after, a magazine with a dog who won the Victorian cross , that was considered a POW in a Japanese prison camp showed up , along with a book about Louis Zamberini who was almost tortured to death in a Japanese POW camp , and he returned to the camp after the war while the guards were waiting to be tried for war crimes. They were imprisoned in the same camp he was imprisoned in.

He threw his arms around them and told them how much he and God loved them.

Then an Anime book showed with confirmations that even quoted from Scripture to confirm some of my inspirations were true. I never liked anime , but then I developed a taste for it.

Another coincidences was in the book there was a nun named Esther that saved a city, and I just made a post about as Esther saving the Israelites.

After reading that book, the Saints began to visit me in the form of Anime characters.

 

[Spiderman]

Oh yes, and I also saw an axis and allies board. Offering up my suffering fasting and prayers was giving the Japanese soldiers better dice rolls.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, getting put on a pedestal can be annoying but it also empowers a person

No it doesn't. Haven't you ever seen Life of Brian?

You might not be a healer but every canonized Saint must do so in order to get canonized, and doctors have confirmed that they have.

Good for them, I'm not Catholic or any other kind of Christian, so I don't particularly care.

However, I should also point something out. Both the Greeks and Romans frequently worshiped Goddesses, many of whom remain popular and worshiped today. Both cultures are also known to have historically been HIGHLY misogynistic, broadly treating women as little more than baby-making toys.

Women in Northern Europe had it better, but being "womanly" was still the highest insult a man could be thrown.

So honoring female figures within the canon and tradition is not an indication of actual treatment of women.

Btw, I have symptoms of Asperger's and people have told me I have that as well.

Be careful with self-diagnosing and going off the word of peers. A general rule of thumb is that you don't have it unless/until you're officially evaluated and diagnosed (which is wise to seek if you suspect you have it.) Not saying you're wrong, just to be tentative.

Speaking of anime, I had a dream that a girl was crying and led me to some Japanese soldiers, and told me to become a POW of the Japanese, that if I surrender to them, they will make sure I do God's will , even if they have to poke me with bayonets for my own good, and they will make sure Im no longer be a POW of Satan.

Shortly after, a magazine with a dog who won the Victorian cross , that was considered a POW in a Japanese prison camp showed up , along with a book about Louis Zamberini who was almost tortured to death in a Japanese POW camp , and he returned to the camp after the war while the guards were waiting to be tried for war crimes. They were imprisoned in the same camp he was imprisoned in.

He threw his arms around them and told them how much he and God loved them.

Then an Anime book showed with confirmations that even quoted from Scripture to confirm some of my inspirations were true. I never liked anime , but then I developed a taste for it.

Another coincidences was in the book there was a nun named Esther that saved a city, and I just made a post about as Esther saving the Israelites.

After reading that book, the Saints began to visit me in the form of Anime characters.

Nice.

 

[Spiderman]

No it doesn't. Haven't you ever seen Life of Brian?



Good for them, I'm not Catholic or any other kind of Christian, so I don't particularly care.

However, I should also point something out. Both the Greeks and Romans frequently worshiped Goddesses, many of whom remain popular and worshiped today. Both cultures are also known to have historically been HIGHLY misogynistic, broadly treating women as little more than baby-making toys.

Women in Northern Europe had it better, but being "womanly" was still the highest insult a man could be thrown.

So honoring female figures within the canon and tradition is not an indication of actual treatment of women.



Be careful with self-diagnosing and going off the word of peers. A general rule of thumb is that you don't have it unless/until you're officially evaluated and diagnosed (which is wise to seek if you suspect you have it.) Not saying you're wrong, just to be tentative.



Nice.

I have not seen the life of Brian other than observing my roommate Brian. (He falls asleep while standing up because he's on such a high dose of methadone. Quite an interesting life )

Yes, the Greeks did worship Goddesses , but the Catholic Saints are people we actually know of, and there are many we have photographs of, who even like Mother Teresa win Nobel Peace prizes.

That is different than some distant superheroes that no one ever met. In the last Parish I was in I didn't see men having the most active role in the parish.

The people that lead all the prayer groups i went to were women as well as confirmation teachers, sponsors, Eucharistic ministers, and hospital chaplains.

My best friend and prayer partner was a woman who had visions that I have no doubt were authentic and prophetic. She had a better and more joyful vocation and charism than the (walking dead) priest IMHO.

 

[Riverwolf]

I have not seen the life of Brian other than observing my roommate Brian. (He falls asleep while standing up because he's on such a high dose of methadone. Quite an interesting life )

Check it out. It's great. "No, we're not the Judean Peoples' Front! We're the Peoples' Front of Judea!"

Yes, the Greeks did worship Goddesses , but the Catholic Saints are people we actually know of, and there are many we have photographs of, who even like Mother Teresa win Nobel Peace prizes.

...preeeety sure many of the earlier Saints are actually Gods. Saint Brigid, for example, is actually a Goddess: Brigid, daughter of Dagda and mother of Ruadán; one of the Tuatha Dé Danann. Her primary festival is Imbolc (which was just last month).

That is different than some distant superheroes that no one ever met.

"Distant?" Polytheists meet their Gods all the time. Not long ago, I encountered Woden in a dream. Freaked me the heck out.

 

[Spiderman]

Check it out. It's great. "No, we're not the Judean Peoples' Front! We're the Peoples' Front of Judea!"



...preeeety sure many of the earlier Saints are actually Gods. Saint Brigid, for example, is actually a Goddess: Brigid, daughter of Dagda and mother of Ruadán; one of the Tuatha Dé Danann. Her primary festival is Imbolc (which was just last month).



"Distant?" Polytheists meet their Gods all the time. Not long ago, I encountered Woden in a dream. Freaked me the heck out.

So Saint Brigid actually didn't live on this earth after the crucifixion? I'm superskeptik.

I know St. Bridget of Sweden was a real person walking the earth and turning Europe upside down in the 13th century
I hope that is not who you are referring to.

Lol! St Stephen of Sweden, one of the dewds I used to pray to when I found out I was Swedish, got his head cut off for not worshipping Woden.

Who is your favorite God/ Godess? What qualities do you like in them?

That is awesome that he visited you in a dream. Continue praying that you will be annointed with dreams, prophecy, locutions, and Supernatural Powers.

The only thing I worry about with pagans, is the spirits that are attached to some of your Gods might be demons, so just pray that only good spirits will be assigned to those names when you invoke them.

 

[Spiderman]

The highest venerated woman in Catholicism, Mary, is nothing but a glorified womb.

Nope! She is venerated as a tender mother who goes before God and receives what she asks for and can restrain the all Mighty hand of God when he wishes to bring certain chastisements upon the Earth.

She is my mother who can get God to change his mind , and will go before God on Judgement Day, beg Him to spare many souls deserving damnation, and he will listen to her.

 

[The Ardent Atheist]

Nope! She is venerated as a tender mother who goes before God and receives what she asks for and can restrain the all Mighty hand of God when he wishes to bring certain chastisements upon the Earth.

She is my mother who can get God to change his mind , and will go before God on Judgement Day, beg Him to spare many souls deserving damnation, and he will listen to her.

The "Virgin" Mary is eerily similar to other fertility goddesses.

 

[The Ardent Atheist]

So Saint Brigid actually didn't live on this earth after the crucifixion? I'm superskeptik.

I know St. Bridget of Sweden was a real person walking the earth and turning Europe upside down in the 13th century
I hope that is not who you are referring to.

Lol! St Stephen of Sweden, one of the dewds I used to pray to when I found out I was Swedish, got his head cut off for not worshipping Woden.

Who is your favorite God/ Godess? What qualities do you like in them?

That is awesome that he visited you in a dream. Continue praying that you will be annointed with dreams, prophecy, locutions, and Supernatural Powers.

The only thing I worry about with pagans, is the spirits that are attached to some of your Gods might be demons, so just pray that only good spirits will be assigned to those names when you invoke them.

A lot of pagan gods were appropriated into the Roman Catholic organization as "saints."

 

[Spiderman]

The "Virgin" Mary is eerily similar to other fertility goddesses.

Pagans were seeking the truth , and many of them were given pieces of the truth , through wisdom, innervision, locution, and some enlightenment , it's just they didn't have the fullness of the truth, but they hungered for it and to some extent were spiritually nourished, which would explain the similarities of Mary, the Saints, and Jesus , to their gods and goddesses.

Much of what Buddha taught was true and the same kind of lessons, virtues, self-discipline, meekness, non violence, humility, poverty of spirit, and austerity Jesus taught.

Many Pagans already knew much of what Christ taught before He was born.

 

[The Ardent Atheist]

Pagans were seeking the truth , and many of them were given pieces of the truth , through wisdom, innervision, locution, and some enlightenment , it's just they didn't have the fullness of the truth, but they hungered for it and to some extent were spiritually nourished, which would explain the similarities of Mary, the Saints, and Jesus , to their gods and goddesses.

Much of what Buddha taught was true and the same kind of lessons, virtues, self-discipline, meekness, non violence, humility, poverty of spirit, and austerity Jesus taught.

Many Pagans already knew much of what Christ taught before He was born.

I know the Catholic party line. Many early church fathers spoke of seeing elements of truth in other religions. In Ireland, for example, people worshipped a triune of gods. This made embracing the Trinity of Christianity easy for them.

But that doesn't mean anything other than that people see patterns. Buddhists might claim that Catholics have "elements of the truth" as well.

 

[Riverwolf]

So Saint Brigid actually didn't live on this earth after the crucifixion? I'm superskeptik.

It's a well known fact that many of the old Gods were reworked into Saints as a way to get people to convert without having to change much. Another is Jove; that's one of the names of Jupiter. (So's the name "Deus", incidentally.)

As one of the Tuatha Dé Danann, Brigid was probably born well before Jesus. As a Goddess, she lives today and her worship continues.

I know St. Bridget of Sweden was a real person walking the earth and turning Europe upside down in the 13th century
I hope that is not who you are referring to.

Most likely not. Brigid is an Irish Goddess with cognates in other Celtic cultures. She's not Swedish.

Lol! St Stephen of Sweden, one of the dewds I used to pray to when I found out I was Swedish, got his head cut off for not worshipping Woden.

Yeah, after Charlamagne's and Olaf the Lawbreaker's mass slaughterings of non-Christians and "Heretics", there were those keeping to the old ways who decided that returning the favor would be a good idea. (For the record, I don't approve of returning bloodshed with like bloodshed, especially on people who had nothing to do with the initial bloodshed. Nor do I hail the Viking raiders who preyed on English monasteries.)

Who is your favorite God/ Godess? What qualities do you like in them?

Probably Freya and Loki. Freya is free, strong, sexy, and powerful. Loki is just fun (and anyone who says he's evil doesn't understand him or his role). I also like Sif (whom I sometimes name Frith). Her smile is as warm as freshly cooked bread.

Also the Goddess Easter. Because it's almost Easter.

That is awesome that he visited you in a dream. Continue praying that you will be annointed with dreams, prophecy, locutions, and Supernatural Powers.

Uh... no? Did you miss the "freaked me out" part? I wasn't kidding; I started awake as from a nightmare. Allfather Beggarking is not exactly known for benevolence. His name is from "wode", which means "madness, frenzy, inspiration, drunkenness, elation, rage...". Among Wodensmen were the legendary Bearskins (aka, Berserkers), and he's the God to whom enemy armies as well as the executed were offered.

Besides, I don't want any prophetic visions or supernatural powers! And I wouldn't pray to Woden for such things in any case. I don't even know what you mean by "locution"; why would I pray for such a thing?

For Dreams, I ... it's personal. That's all I'll say.

The only thing I worry about with pagans, is the spirits that are attached to some of your Gods might be demons, so just pray that only good spirits will be assigned to those names when you invoke them.

That worry is probably misplaced, because we Heathens (uppercase; Heathenry is its own religion; all Heathens are Pagans, but not all Pagans are Heathens) don't conceive of good and evil in the same way.

The Gods, together with other wights, are beyond good and evil. Objective morality doesn't exist in our conception. The same act can be simultaneously good and evil, depending on the person you ask.

Now, there are malevolent wights that most Heathens don't pray to (though some do). Most of these wights are counted among the Giants, though not all Giants are malevolent (Earth, Moon, and Sun are Giants who get a lot of love). For protection against those wights who are malevolent, particularly before a ritual, we pray to Thunder.

Fire I bear 'round the Frithyard,
And bid men the Frith to keep
Light I bear for enclosing
And bid illwights flee away
Thunder weya
Thunder weya
Thunder weya this elhouse.
​

Besides, I'm not that worried about illwights. Far more dangerous are those humans who know Speechcrafts, and know exactly what words to say in order to get people to believe and do anything. (A technique known as social engineering.)

 

[Riverwolf]

The "Virgin" Mary is eerily similar to other fertility goddesses.

Not... really? At least, none that I know of...? (Don't compare her to Freya. Mighty Falconcloak has been declawed enough.)

I mean, it's a little similar to something Frige once did to trick Woden into granting victory to a tribe he didn't support (and founding the Longbeard tribe, aka the Lombardi, at the same time), so she's really more of a Mother Goddess than a Fertility (aka Sex) Goddess.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do not agree. Is drafting men for Vietnam and them coming home in body bags, wheelchairs, missing limbs, burned from head to toe, in wheel chairs, blind, deaf, disfigured etc. sexist?

Yes, it is. It's also inhuman.

If the draft was extended to women, this would address the sexism, but not the inhumanity of forcing people to fight in a bloody, useless war.