Is God's existence necessary?

[serp777]

You mean you were born and raised in an atheist family? I now understand your situation... The difficult thing to convey is that there is no personal existence on the other side...individuality...yes...but not ego type self identity with meat... you must leave you on this side of the gate to be on the other side where is is pure awareness without a you..

Nope i didn't say that but my upbringing isn't relevant. Also that last statement is ambiguous and nebulous. If I have no personal existence on the other side then by your own statement I no longer exist--I am not longer me and my consciousness is gone except for my individuality which really isn't me . Pure awareness without me means I'm dead and gone for all intensive purposes. I am my ego--I am not my pure awareness and its a false assumption to automatically assume we are inherently pure awareness. The pure awareness would be something that is shaped through memory and experience to become me. Without my ego im gone meaning I might as well become non existent in death anyways.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nope i didn't say that but my upbringing isn't relevant. Also that last statement is ambiguous and nebulous. If I have no personal existence on the other side then by your own statement I no longer exist--I am not longer me and my consciousness is gone except for my individuality which really isn't me . Pure awareness without me means I'm dead and gone for all intensive purposes. I am my ego--I am not my pure awareness and its a false assumption to automatically assume we are inherently pure awareness. The pure awareness would be something that is shaped through memory and experience to become me. Without my ego im gone meaning I might as well become non existent in death anyways.

Yes....the 'you' in any event does not survive death, for it is only a result of self identity with the physical body...but as a result of this this identity with a physical body over lifetimes...s sense of individuality arises that is not confined to 3D time space of waking body consciousness and exists independently of the body....think of it a sort of synthesized essence of self awareness that is translated/modulated on the omnipresent aether...,sort of analogous to radio modulation...

 

[Thief]

Who would want to spend eternity with narcissists who admire themselves so much that they would only be happy if they spent eternity with mirror images of themselves?

even more so....imagine what happens when Hitler crosses over and is surrounded by so many Jews he had killed.....

or better yet!.....
Jesus, Judas and Hitler sharing bread and sauce bowl.....looking each other in the eye!!!!

 

[LuisDantas]

even more so....imagine what happens when Hitler crosses over and is surrounded by so many Jews he had killed.....

or better yet!.....
Jesus, Judas and Hitler sharing bread and sauce bowl.....looking each other in the eye!!!!

,,,

Are you truly failing to see it?

 

[Pudding]

Is God's existence (metaphysically) necessary?

You mean to ask is God's existence necessary for universe to exist otherwise universe can't exist?
Or is God's existence necessary so people's life can have meaning otherwise life have no meaning?

A petty, illogical, irrational, violence, unjust, tyrant, malevolent God, is not welcome and not necessary to exist.

However, a generous, logical, rational, peaceful, just, not despotic, benevolent God, is welcome to exist.

Does that God's existence necessary for universe to exist?
Maybe yes maybe no, i don't know the true answer.

Does that God's existence necessary so people's life can have meaning?
If that God exist, he can give meaning to people's life.
If that God doesn't exist, people still can give/attribute meaning to their life by themself if they see fit.

 

[serp777]

Yes....the 'you' in any event does not survive death, for it is only a result of self identity with the physical body...but as a result of this this identity with a physical body over lifetimes...s sense of individuality arises that is not confined to 3D time space of waking body consciousness and exists independently of the body....think of it a sort of synthesized essence of self awareness that is translated/modulated on the omnipresent aether...,sort of analogous to radio modulation...

All we are is the physical body, memories, and experiences we have. That self awareness and individuality is another being entirely if your assertion is true. Basically you're asserting that there's a universal consciousness which becomes different people/consciousnesses as memories and experiences are acquired. If that's the case then death is the end for us. We aren't this modulated essence of self awareness by any criteria and so the entire idea of an afterlife is utterly pointless for us at least. We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between non existence and being a completely separate being that doesn't resemble us in any shape or form. Therefore at best the afterlife is irrelevant. One has to wonder how this magical mechanism by which this essence of self awareness injects itself into babies so that they can form a consciousness, and then how this essence of self awareness also able to download the contents of the existence of that person so that it becomes a giant database of lifetimes. It actually sounds like you're proposing a big backup computer--all the information of our lifetime gets downloaded to the cloud upon death and is incorporated into the awareness algorithm.

If what you're saying is true it should be verifiable scientifically. You should be able to detect a physical mechanism by which information moves to and from this essence of consciousness. Go out and win your nobel prize if this is actually true.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

All we are is the physical body, memories, and experiences we have. That self awareness and individuality is another being entirely if your assertion is true. Basically you're asserting that there's a universal consciousness which becomes different people/consciousnesses as memories and experiences are acquired. If that's the case then death is the end for us. We aren't this modulated essence of self awareness by any criteria and so the entire idea of an afterlife is utterly pointless for us at least. We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between non existence and being a completely separate being that doesn't resemble us in any shape or form. Therefore at best the afterlife is irrelevant. One has to wonder how this magical mechanism by which this essence of self awareness injects itself into babies so that they can form a consciousness, and then how this essence of self awareness also able to download the contents of the existence of that person so that it becomes a giant database of lifetimes. It actually sounds like you're proposing a big backup computer--all the information of our lifetime gets downloaded to the cloud upon death and is incorporated into the awareness algorithm.

If what you're saying is true it should be verifiable scientifically. You should be able to detect a physical mechanism by which information moves to and from this essence of consciousness. Go out and win your nobel prize if this is actually true.

You know serp777, it is not true the physical body is all we are...but if that is your belief then anything more I have to say is a waste of my time and a waste of your time listening to it... But I admit you have shown to have made some pretty astute observations such as the upload into the cloud storage at death, etc....not bad at all... It is too early to be verifiable scientifically as the cloud 'modulation' is on/in the zpe field which is what I am calling the omnipresent aether or omnipresent dark energy or omnipresent spiritual energy....the name is not important... The vibrational frequency rates of zpe is too high to presently be monitored...

 

[Thief]

,,,

Are you truly failing to see it?

I am certain you don't

 

[LuisDantas]

I am certain you don't

I know you are, and it is not like I can be bothered to care.

But really... your stance is so utterly self-sabotaging.

 

[Thief]

I know you are, and it is not like I can be bothered to care.

But really... your stance is so utterly self-sabotaging.

show me the line drawn....see if I can't erase it....

 

[LuisDantas]

Your post #864 is the very denial of the idea of a fair God.

 

[Thief]

Your post #864 is the very denial of the idea of a fair God.

well gee....last I heard ....you don't believe in the after life.
I do not expect you to understand the scenario

so no....you don't see your fail
and you assume then....I have...

 

[leibowde84]

Spiritual light....

Ok ... can you provide a definition for that term? Just seems incredibly vague to me.

 

[leibowde84]

Evidence presupposes knowledge, and knowledge presupposes, truth, and truth presupposes God.
We cannot account for truth, knowledge , or evidence without God. God is the necessary foundational standard by which can know something to be true, or to account for truth itself.

I'm not sure I agree with anything, and these are just claims. This doesn't provide support, but rather just adds onto the claims you've already made. Can you support any of these claims? Why does truth necessarily presuppose God? What do you mean by that?

 

[LuisDantas]

well gee....last I heard ....you don't believe in the after life.

Of course I don't. But that does not mean that I am not shocked to see that your beliefs are presented as so internally self-contradictory.
Your god would be unworthy even if true. In fact, considering whether he exists would be more than he earned.

 

[Thief]

Of course I don't. But that does not mean that I am not shocked to see that your beliefs are presented as so internally self-contradictory.
Your god would be unworthy even if true. In fact, considering whether he exists would be more than he earned.

I don't know....you keep using the word worthy as if .....
God should prove Himself to you.

I think it's suppose to be the other way around.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know....you keep using the word worthy as if .....
God should prove Himself to you.

God can't prove himself to me because he does not exist.

Which is one of several reasons why I don't bother to use the concept out of my own initiative.

But if I somehow had a reason to... attempt to believe in god's existence, I suppose? It is such an odd idea, really... then sure, I would have to decide if he was worth believing in. Otherwise, what would the point be?

I think it's suppose to be the other way around.

Nah, that is just wrong.

 

[Janardena]

I'm not sure I agree with anything,

Why aren't you sure?

and these are just claims. This doesn't provide support, but rather just adds onto the claims you've already made.

What do you understand of my claims thus far?

[QUOTE="leibowde84, post: 4553278, member: 56049"Can you support any of these claims? Why does truth necessarily presuppose God? What do you mean by that?[/QUOTE]

What do you know?
How do you know that it is true?

Lets start there.

 

[leibowde84]

Why aren't you sure?



What do you understand of my claims thus far?

[QUOTE="leibowde84, post: 4553278, member: 56049"Can you support any of these claims? Why does truth necessarily presuppose God? What do you mean by that?

What do you know?
How do you know that it is true?

Lets start there.[/QUOTE]
I know that we are communicating via digital channels online. That's one example.

 

[Thief]

let's start.....in the beginning.....