Is the term "homophobe" subjective?

[psychedelicsoul]

No one is demanding that churches be forced to perform gay marriages. That would be a violation of the first amendment. However, just because they have the right to refuse them does not mean they aren't homophobic. The Ku Klux Klan is perfectly within their rights to exclude anyone who isn't white, but they are still racist ********.

No they're not... Again... Eating pork is a sin. So if a mosque doesn't allow you to eat pork in their building are they bigots? You're basically saying everyone who's a christian is homophobic except the tiny percent that have a different biblical interpretation.
Gay marriage doesn't fit with the bible.

Plus, gay marriage is a lifestyle choice, don't compare it with race.

How is it a sin? You won't find any examples in the Bible of Jesus turning someone away because of a particular sin. Rather, to the contrary, he ministered and accepted all among him.

Jesus would help a gay person. But Jesus wouldn't help out a gay wedding. Jesus wouldn't turn down the person, but he wouldn't take part in a sinful ceremony.

Paranormal research (asides from it dying out) doesn't cause harm to people.

Smoking is harmful, but it's legal for consenting adults.

That is true. However, when you serve the public, you don't get to pick and choose whom you serve.

Well why is it you don't have to hire people with drugs in their system or tattoos? You can kick a customer out for their attitude. If I have a shirt with obcene images on it, they can kick me out.
So you can pick and choose who you serve, gay people just think they're special and deserve discrimination protections. That's why I'm glad my state doesn't have that.

Research disagrees. It will show it is more fluid than a rigid dichitomy, but you can't turn someone who is heterosexual into a homosexual and vice versa.

I don't care though. I know what I know.

If someone is calling for violence, yes. And there are already many restrictions against free speech already in existence, such as making threats or shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.

Depends on context I guess

 

[McBell]

Plus, gay marriage is a lifestyle choice...

Prove it.
Until you do, it is nothing more than a bold empty claim.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As for the OP:

I don't think disagreeing with homosexuality in of itself is homophobic. We all have the right to object to things we find immoral and unethical. I'm pro-life and I don't support "plural marriage", but I don't bash women who have had abortions or people in poly relationships. But dehumanizing gay people and generally being hateful towards them is homophobic. The difference is when mere disagreement turns into hatred and that hatred hurts people, and how much of it is based on ignorance, fear and stupidity rather than logic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To what extent?

That I don't want to live in a theocracy or live under a state that persecutes religions?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Nice unbacked ad-homonym

You think they're bigots even though they're just following thier faiths not messing with anyone.

Source? I do not recall claiming this anywhere?

My lifestyle choices aren't protected by discrimination laws. If a KKK member can be told to leave for wearing his hood in a store, why should two homosexuals be able to hold hands without the owner having the right to tell them to leave?

Homosexuality and religion are the only lifestyle choices protected by the government. I think both recieve special treatment.

Consent can be forced/manipulated.

And an Adult can't be forced to go to conversion therapy.

 

[McBell]

That I don't want to live in a theocracy or live under a state that persecutes religions?

So as to not take this thread off track:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/to-what-extent.180654/
​

 

[McBell]

Homosexuality and religion are the only lifestyle choices protected by the government. I think both recieve special treatment.

What special treatment do you think homosexuals receive from the government?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So as to not take this thread off track:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/to-what-extent.180654/
​

Yeah, I saw it. That's definitely not what I was thinking with that question.

 

[Draka]

Kim Davis worked for the public sector. She doesn't count.

That's the only thing out of my whole post you want to address? Okay then. Take mention of her completely out of what is said and just try to address the rest of it.

It's pretty simple really. If your religion dictates discrimination against something then you simply shouldn't be in any job wherein you would be put in a situation to deal with that something. Don't believe in medication, don't be a pharmacist. Don't believe in blood transfusions, don't be a hematologist. Don't believe in using electricity, don't become an electrician. Don't believe in certain people getting married, don't get into any business that deals specifically with marriage. That includes weddings. If you can't perform a job without discrimination you shouldn't have that job. No one should have to suffer discrimination, especially at the whim of someone's religious beliefs, in trying to go about their everyday life and exercise their basic rights in this country. Anyone who feels differently is, yes, a bigot.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So if a mosque doesn't allow you to eat pork in their building are they bigots?

Refraining from pork consumption doesn't make you a bigot.

You're basically saying everyone who's a christian is homophobic except the tiny percent that have a different biblical interpretation.

Not at all. Many Christians do not like homosexual marriage, but they don't think others should be forced to be bound to their own religious dogma, and they don't go around condemning homosexuals.

Plus, gay marriage is a lifestyle choice, don't compare it with race.

It is a choice to get married, but people joining in some sort of ritualistic sense is a very basic human right, and no one should be denied this right because someone's religion has an issue with it.

Jesus wouldn't turn down the person, but he wouldn't take part in a sinful ceremony.

Baking a cake isn't taking part in it. They aren't showing up, they aren't giving it their blessing, they aren't condoning or supporting it. They have a business that

Smoking is harmful, but it's legal for consenting adults.

Smoking isn't disguised as a cure or a way to help people, and it isn't a way to force conformity upon someone to make others more comfortable.

Well why is it you don't have to hire people with drugs in their system or tattoos? You can kick a customer out for their attitude.

Those things are completely different (and, personally, I strongly disagree with pre-employment drug screens and not hiring people with tattoos).

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Being bigoted and not actively messing with people are not mutually inclusive.

Yea, but you can't

The KKK are spreading hate.
The gays are not.
Theres you difference, I don't see how you refuse to see this

Why should the law be picking and choosing who has freedom to do what where and who doesn't? Sure the KKK are bigoted, but shouldn't they have the same rights? The government has no place in deciding who's "right" since morality is subjective.

didn't say they could be, I said they could be pressured or manipulated into doing so

.

If they choose to be followers instead of living their own lives, that's on them.

What special treatment do you think homosexuals receive from the government?

They're the only lifestyle that gets protection from the government from discrimination besides religion.
And I don't think religion should be protected either.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Smoking does not in anyway discriminate towards non smokers. Not a valid comparison

Conversion therapy isn't discriminatory agianst anyone unless they sign up for it.
I do disagree with forcing minors to do it.

If you don't support it, don't do it.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Refraining from pork consumption doesn't make you a bigot.

Yea, but if they refuse to let you eat pork there, then they're bigots right? What if they refuse to let people with tattoos in, that makes them bigots too right?

Not at all. Many Christians do not like homosexual marriage, but they don't think others should be forced to be bound to their own religious dogma, and they don't go around condemning homosexuals.

Yea... but they wouldn't perform a gay marriage either. Most christians don't force thier views on others... however, refusing to marry them, or kicking them out of your church isn't forcing your views on them. It's saying... This is OUR establishment.

It is a choice to get married, but people joining in some sort of ritualistic sense is a very basic human right, and no one should be denied this right because someone's religion has an issue with it.

Gay marriage is legal, so they can't be denied that right anymore. However, they can't force you to provide services for said wedding in a lot of states.

Baking a cake isn't taking part in it. They aren't showing up, they aren't giving it their blessing, they aren't condoning or supporting it. They have a business that

Jesus wouldn't provide services for what is considered a sin.

Plus, you're not discriminating against them...
Like I said...

If you denied services to a KKK leader because he is a KKK leader... then that's discrimination and in my opinion isn't okay (however, I support private property rights). However, refusing to service the meeting isn't the same as refusing to serve the person.

Smoking isn't disguised as a cure or a way to help people, and it isn't a way to force conformity upon someone to make others more comfortable.

You can't force something if you consent to it.
If a gay person consented to having battery acid poured on his dick. I'd be 100% in favor of it. Why? Because the individual doing it said, "yes"

However, I do think conversion therapists should not be allowed to operate as a medical organization.

Those things are completely different (and, personally, I strongly disagree with pre-employment drug screens and not hiring people with tattoos).

How's it different? Smoking weed is a choice... but you don't choose to like it. You don't choose to like anything you like.
Being gay is a sexual orientation (which you can't be discriminated against for, unless the employer is psychic) Being with the same sex is a choice.

I disagree with that stuff too, but it's not my business.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

They can be manipulated by family or the church though.

Yea... but the same thing could be said about anything. Almost all of our decisions are influenced by others in some sort of way. That doesn't absolve us of our choices. If someone wants to do something

That's pretty ****ed up. Your pro self harm now?

I'm pro anything... As long as it's done by consenting adults. I don't care what it is unless it affects others.

And I've always been pro self harm. That's how I stopped being bi... torturing myself for months with cigs, blades, and blunt force.

Even after the scientifically backed idea that they don't work and actually create issues?

I know it works for some people, so I don't give a damn what science thinks. But yea... Bacon, cigarettes, beer are all bad for you... and your choice to do them can easilly be a result of being influenced by others.
But this is a free country.

Your comparing usage of drugs to dating. That's the difference.
Abstaining from drugs is much different from abstaining from dating and/or sex.

Why is it different? Drugs are my business, being gay is their business. If my lifestyle choice is looked at as just a lifestyle choice, so should there's...

Also, here's a secret.
Pot smokers have faced WAY more discrimination than homosexuals. Homosexuals just ***** about it more.

So people should have to keep their romantic preferences a secret in order to avoid discrimination? Sure sounds like an egalitarian society to me.

Nope... there's one solution...
Go somewhere else if you don't' like the way one place works.

 

[Draka]

If "gay marriage" is a lifestyle choice then, I presume, "straight marriage" is an equal lifestyle choice. That being the case, what difference does it make?

I've never had any idea what the whole "lifestyle choice" thing was about. Being gay is not a choice. Falling in love is not a choice. Wanting to commit to someone you love deeply is natural. None of that is a "lifestyle choice".

Dressing goth is a "lifestyle choice". Deciding to not have children is a "lifestyle choice". Whether one prefers to live in the country verses the city is a "lifestyle choice". Being gay, and living life as a gay person is not a "lifestyle choice" anymore than being straight and living life as a straight person is.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

If "gay marriage" is a lifestyle choice then, I presume, "straight marriage" is an equal lifestyle choice. That being the case, what difference does it make?

I've never had any idea what the whole "lifestyle choice" thing was about. Being gay is not a choice. Falling in love is not a choice. Wanting to commit to someone you love deeply is natural. None of that is a "lifestyle choice".

Dressing goth is a "lifestyle choice". Deciding to not have children is a "lifestyle choice". Whether one prefers to live in the country verses the city is a "lifestyle choice". Being gay, and living life as a gay person is not a "lifestyle choice" anymore than being straight and living life as a straight person is.

Being straight is a lifestyle choice if you're in a relationship. So sure...
By all means, if a gay baker didn't wanna cater a straight wedding. I'd be 100% in favor of his freedom of choice.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

You have to be a troll...
How many fedoras do you own?

Um... it's a fact.
How many gay people are in prison for being gay? Gay people ***** about, "Oh, I gotta hide it so people won't judge me!!!"
You call that going through something?
Drug users run the risk of being arrested or kicked out the house for something they could actually be caught doing?
Yea... I'll save my sympathy for a more deserving minority group. Gay people don't have it hard in this country.

The suffering pot smokers have endured in this country greatly outweights homosexuals.

 

[Draka]

Being straight is a lifestyle choice if you're in a relationship. So sure...
By all means, if a gay baker didn't wanna cater a straight wedding. I'd be 100% in favor of his freedom of choice.

I'm having to assume you are straight, so when did you sit down, weigh the pros and cons, and choose to be straight over gay? I also have to assume that you find yourself as much attracted to the same sex as the opposite sex in order to say it is a choice.

Now, have you come up with any valid response to my earlier post or would you just prefer to ignore it as admission you simply can't respond to my points?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

I'm having to assume you are straight, so when did you sit down, weigh the pros and cons, and choose to be straight over gay? I also have to assume that you find yourself as much attracted to the same sex as the opposite sex in order to say it is a choice.

Now, have you come up with any valid response to my earlier post or would you just prefer to ignore it as admission you simply can't respond to my points?

I'm single. So I'm not living the straight lifestyle. I'm single.

I don't think you can really discriminate against a persons sexual orientation. It'd be either their lifestyle or behavior. I'm not living a "straight" lifestyle. Because I'm single right now.
Being gay is not a choice... Being a sodomite is. It's really simple. Your sexual orientation isn't the same as your lifestyle.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yea, but if they refuse to let you eat pork there, then they're bigots right?

No. Eating pork is a choice and religious mandate. It doesn't involve the way people are. You really need to improve your debate skills and give valid comparisons.

ea... but they wouldn't perform a gay marriage either.

Many of them will.

however, refusing to marry them, or kicking them out of your church isn't forcing your views on them. It's saying... This is OUR establishment.

That is their right. But it doesn't cover up the fact they kicked them out just for being homosexual.

Most christians don't force thier views on others...

Many of them try very hard to do so via legislation.

If you denied services to a KKK leader because he is a KKK leader... then that's discrimination and in my opinion isn't okay

We actually agree on something. But the difference is that I view this as something that equally applies to all, and not something you can pick and choose.

However, I do think conversion therapists should not be allowed to operate as a medical organization.

If it's not backed by a medical organization, if the therapist doesn't have an accredited background, then it cannot be provided as therapy.

How's it different? Smoking weed is a choice... but you don't choose to like it. You don't choose to like anything you like.

People do not choose to be homosexual. Mega huge difference.

Being with the same sex is a choice.

No it's not. Technically yes, but they shouldn't have to forfeit a romantic relationship because some people think it's icky. Because we are psychologically equipped to be attracted to others and find a fulfilling romantic relationship, it isn't a choice.

The suffering pot smokers have endured in this country greatly outweights homosexuals.

The public doesn't target, beat, and even kill people just for smoking pot.