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The Buddha Explains Universal Mind

Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
crossfire said:
How did Buddha explain Universal Mind, as per title of thread?
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Well I posted two examples....one was the One Mind by Huang Po....and the other was the The Lankavatara Sutra.. When I have time...I will try and find them for you... Btw..you know Buddha never wrote anything...so these. like all Buddhist teachings, are attributed to the Buddha...

Ok then...on edit....for the Lankavatara post, my comment # 758, page 38.... and for the One Mind post, my comment # 657, page 33....
 
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serp777

serp777

Well-Known Member
ben d said:
The thread is about the universal mind....it has been explained that it is non-dual and thus beyond description using a dualistic approach....the onus is on the aspirant to seek the truth of it by developing a still mind...don't blame the messenger for your not getting it....lol
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Argument from credulity--you understand it, therefore it must be a valid assertion. NOPE. Your failure to explain it properly to many here by using inane, superfluous jargon is not a reflection on our ability to comprehend, but rather a reflection that this consists mostly of mumbo jumbo.

For instance I could just say this: you just don't have a scientifically developed mind to understand how preposterous the universal mind is. It has been explained that a universal mind is unnecessary to explain the attributes of the brain and that consciousness has not been shown to need a highly more complex medium to interface every consciousness simultaneously; by adding such unnecessary complexity you have violated oczams razor in the highest degree; Those who are familiar with scientific principles and logic will recognize the pointlessness of adding a theory which predicts nothing, has no evidence, and has no explanatory power, but also adds completely pointless, vast complexity. Don't blame the messenger for showing how inconsistent and futile your theory is with respect to the universe we live in.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
serp777 said:
Argument from credulity--you understand it, therefore it must be a valid assertion. NOPE. Your failure to explain it properly to many here by using inane, superfluous jargon is not a reflection on our ability to comprehend, but rather a reflection that this consists mostly of mumbo jumbo.

For instance I could just say this: you just don't have a scientifically developed mind to understand how preposterous the universal mind is. It has been explained that a universal mind is unnecessary to explain the attributes of the brain and that consciousness has not been shown to need a highly more complex medium to interface every consciousness simultaneously; by adding such unnecessary complexity you have violated oczams razor in the highest degree; Those who are familiar with scientific principles and logic will recognize the pointlessness of adding a theory which predicts nothing, has no evidence, and has no explanatory power, but also adds completely pointless, vast complexity. Don't blame the messenger for showing how inconsistent and futile your theory is with respect to the universe we live in.
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Dear Serp777...I understand that you would like to be taken seriously here on this thread....but imho you truly are out of your depth... No, I don't think you are stupid...it is just that dealing with Buddhism wrt universal mind where there is no consensus, even among practitioners, scholars, or schools of Buddhism....there is always going to be lively debate.. So unless you are to some extent learned about the esoteric nature of the concept of universal mind according to Buddhist teachings...not alone the difficulty of conveying such understanding...you will be seen as merely a distraction... Now if I am mistaken and you really are learned in Buddhism....I will try harder to see the relevance of your comments...but alas so far it is not evident to me....
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ben d said:
The universal mind is non-dual, it is realized when the mortal mind is without thought...it is the I which thinks... and without thought, there is no I to arise in the mind to be aware of the non-dual reality....universal mind...this one mind is just that...it is pure awareness....no second thing that is separate from the one mind can be one with the one mind for that would be logically impossible...
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The experience of non-duality is not unusual in meditative samadhi, what I am questioning is your insistence on dressing it up with all the metaphysical baggage.
Adding all this metaphysical baggage is both unnecessary and counter-productive, you're just adding layers of belief and dogma to something which is extraordinary in it's simplicity. As I've said before, I think you're approaching these experiences with a theistic mindset and therefore with a strong need to reify them.
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ben d said:
Dear Serp777...I understand that you would like to be taken seriously here on this thread....but imho you truly are out of your depth...
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I was just thinking the same about you actually. If you insist on approaching Buddhist teachings through a theistic lens you will inevitably miss the point of those teachings.

Just to be clear, the Buddha didn't teach the kind of universal mind you believe in, he didn't teach pantheism or Advaita either.
 
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serp777

serp777

Well-Known Member
ben d said:
Dear Serp777...I understand that you would like to be taken seriously here on this thread....but imho you truly are out of your depth... No, I don't think you are stupid...it is just that dealing with Buddhism wrt universal mind where there is no consensus, even among practitioners, scholars, or schools of Buddhism....there is always going to be lively debate.. So unless you are to some extent learned about the esoteric nature of the concept of universal mind according to Buddhist teachings...not alone the difficulty of conveying such understanding...you will be seen as merely a distraction... Now if I am mistaken and you really are learned in Buddhism....I will try harder to see the relevance of your comments...but alas so far it is not evident to me....
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Again, you're out of your depth with the scientific and philosophical arguments which completely demolish this theory.

There is no specific hypothesis, no evidence, no predictions, no explanatory power, no concrete results, and adds a huge amount of complexity so its no surprise that no one has any consensus. You're simply playing a 100% guessing game thats based on your assertions and feelings rather than evidence and observation of the universe. A theory which cannot be proved or disproved in just as ridiculous as scientology and the celestial teapot. You act like you have some special knowledge and some superior more developed mind, which i simply reject because you havent even grappled with any of my arguments. All you've said is that im out of my depth, blah blah blah, i dont understnad, blah blah blah, get out of the monkey mind, etc. Just because they're buddhist teachings doesnt mean they're suddenly not subject to scientific and philosophical principles that have produced all of the progress in the 19th ,20th, and 21st century,

And finally i dont care whether you and your posse take me seriously--thats another argument from credulity. Whether or not im taken seriously has nothing to do with the validity of my a
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ben d said:
Ok then...on edit....for the Lankavatara post, my comment # 758, page 38......
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But as previously discussed that's a bad translation of the Lankavatara Sutra, and in particular "Universal Mind" is a very misleading translation of alaya-vijnana, which is more commonly translated as "store consciousness" and understood to be individual rather than universal.

It looks to me like you have latched onto the "Universal Mind" translation and made a load of erroneous assumptions, turning alaya-vijnana into some kind of pantheistic "cosmic consciousness".
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Spiny Norman said:
The experience of non-duality is not unusual in meditative samadhi, what I am questioning is your insistence on dressing it up with all the metaphysical baggage.
Adding all this metaphysical baggage is both unnecessary and counter-productive, you're just adding layers of belief and dogma to something which is extraordinary in it's simplicity. As I've said before, I think you're approaching these experiences with a theistic mindset and therefore with a strong need to reify them.
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I am aware of the ubiquitous claims of realizing samadhi, moksha, enlightenment, etc....but I have not met one personally, so I hold judgement.... But in the event that I do have the opportunity to meet one, they will be held to account of non-dual reality...not merely the conceptual claim that you seem to buy into....
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ben d said:
Ok...I get it ...like the buddhish idea... do you wear a buddhish cap?
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Is the wearing of caps allowed during Church of Cosmic Consciousness services? Probably not, because then it's easier for the mind to merge with cosmic consciousness and be transported to another dimension beyond space and time..... :p

PS I heard a rumour that the CCC was run by space-aliens - could that be true?!
 
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Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Spiny Norman said:
Is the wearing of caps allowed during Church of Cosmic Consciousness services? Probably not, because then it's easier for the mind to merge with cosmic consciousness and be transported to another dimension beyond space and time..... :p
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Interesting esoteric question....why do Christian, Muslim, and Jewish clergy wear skull caps...do you have an opinion?.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Spiny Norman said:
It does in the important sense that non-duality is a meditative experience and not some trans-dimensional, ultimate reality cosmic consciousness thingy.
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Only according to buddhish doctrine...a doctrine followed by one person who happens to be also the founder of the cult...lol...
 
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