Is Jesus God?

[katiemygirl]

I caught it, but the Almighty God is not omnipresent.
Jehovah has a place to live. He is not "everywhere". He is omniscient. But that is different.

I'm surprised you would say Almighty God is not omnipresent.

Is there any place in the universe we can hide from the presence of Almighty God?

God says in Jeremiah, "
“Am I a God near at hand,” says theLord,
“And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places,
So I shall not see him?” says theLord;
“Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord. (Jeremiah 23:23-24,)

King David asked, “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell [the grave], behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me” (Psalm 139:7–10).

Almighty God is everywhere according to these passages.

 

[Katzpur]

Katie and Kolibri, here are my thoughts...

Imagine a sheet of paper that had sixteen tiny holes in it. How many needles would be needed to simultaneously fit through all sixteen separate holes? If you said, "Sixteen,"” you are thinking in terms of “ontological (i.e. physical) omnipresence.” Fold the paper in such a way that the needle can be inserted through all sixteen holes at once. This represents “functional omnipresence.” God’s power can extend everywhere throughout the universe simultaneously, even though He is physically in heaven. Even though He occupies physical space, He is functionally omnipresent because He has the power to do so.

Interestingly, the Bible consistently refers to God as being "in Heaven." That's where Jesus Christ always referred to Him as being. There in nowhere in which He (Jesus) describes, mentions or alludes to His Father as being anywhere else. In the Lord's Prayer, He begins, "Our Father who art in Heaven..." After His resurrection, He talks about going to His Father "in Heaven." The fact that God's power extends throughout the universe at all times has nothing to do with where He is physically.

There is a difference between ontological (i.e. physical) and functional omnipresence. The Bible never actually refers to God being "omnipresent." It describes his power, knowledge, and influence as being everywhere at once, but He is always said to be "in Heaven."

 

[Kolibri]

Katie and Kolibri, here are my thoughts...

Imagine a sheet of paper that had sixteen tiny holes in it. How many needles would be needed to simultaneously fit through all sixteen separate holes? If you said, "Sixteen,"” you are thinking in terms of “ontological (i.e. physical) omnipresence.” Fold the paper in such a way that the needle can be inserted through all sixteen holes at once. This represents “functional omnipresence.” God’s power can extend everywhere throughout the universe simultaneously, even though He is physically in heaven. Even though He occupies physical space, He is functionally omnipresent because He has the power to do so.

Interestingly, the Bible consistently refers to God as being "in Heaven." That's where Jesus Christ always referred to Him as being. There in nowhere in which He (Jesus) describes, mentions or alludes to His Father as being anywhere else. In the Lord's Prayer, He begins, "Our Father who art in Heaven..." After His resurrection, He talks about going to His Father "in Heaven." The fact that God's power extends throughout the universe at all times has nothing to do with where He is physically.

There is a difference between ontological (i.e. physical) and functional omnipresence. The Bible never actually refers to God being "omnipresent." It describes his power, knowledge, and influence as being everywhere at once, but He is always said to be "in Heaven."

I see no problem with this understanding. Jehovah's reach is indeed infinite. Where he wills he sends out his spirit. And all matter is locked energy that originally came from him anyway.
However, the "holy spirit" is not a "ghost" and should not be labeled God. "Functionally omnipresent" I can agree with. But "omnipresent" I can not.

"Draw close to God and he will draw close to you." - James 4:8a

Though Jehovah is high, he takes note of the humble,
But the haughty he knows only from a distance.
- Psalm 138:6

I feel that by blurring the lines between God and God's reach we loose some of the beauty of these 2 scriptures, because the clarity gets lost.

 

[Kolibri]

“Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?

Again this is a problem with the KJV and not with your reading comprehension.

The Hebrew is literally "your face" not "your presence" Paniym - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - New American Standard

the 139 psalm is one of my favorite.

 

[Domenic]

This is not addressed to anybody on this thread…just a little matter of truth: When a religion is controlled by men in areas of what they read, learn, follow, and must pass a question test before they can be a member of that religion…it falls in the realm of a cult. If the leaders of this same religion make prophecy, after prophecy, after prophecy, and claim they received all these prophecies from God, and none come true, they are either false prophets, or God don’t know what he is talking about.

This same religion also claims to have started as Bible Students. Not true. The group known as Bible Students are still around. They claim some members broke away and started their own religion…the one in question above.

This cult also says to have life, a person must be a member of their religion. Not so. Jesus said to have life we must believe in him. No 60 questions, or following what men say. Thes cult leaders also have been saying for many years, “The generation that saw the beginning of the end (1914) would see the last day. Side note: !914 was supposed to also be the last day, then they moved it up to 1930, 1975. Strange, because jesus said he did not even know the date of the last day, that only God knew.

 

[katiemygirl]

This is not addressed to anybody on this thread…just a little matter of truth: When a religion is controlled by men in areas of what they read, learn, follow, and must pass a question test before they can be a member of that religion…it falls in the realm of a cult. If the leaders of this same religion make prophecy, after prophecy, after prophecy, and claim they received all these prophecies from God, and none come true, they are either false prophets, or God don’t know what he is talking about.

This same religion also claims to have started as Bible Students. Not true. The group known as Bible Students are still around. They claim some members broke away and started their own religion…the one in question above.

This cult also says to have life, a person must be a member of their religion. Not so. Jesus said to have life we must believe in him. No 60 questions, or following what men say. Thes cult leaders also have been saying for many years, “The generation that saw the beginning of the end (1914) would see the last day. Side note: !914 was supposed to also be the last day, then they moved it up to 1930, 1975. Strange, because jesus said he did not even know the date of the last day, that only God knew.

Well said!

 

[psychoslice]

I believe it is not the same with the Paraclete as it is with Jesus. We have a spirit of our own and it has enough ego to want to run its own life and we simply allow God to run our life when we feel we need help.

Yes that's a nice way of looking at it.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

Is Jesus God? Is Jesus Yahweh God Almighty? The Holy Scriptures says definitely not.

When it comes to the Bible, the prophets and holy people knew that none of the Holy Scriptures contradict each other.

So, when we read Exodus 20:1-2 "I am Yahweh your God...you shall have no other god before me." -- In what way does Jesus Christ stand before Yahweh? Shall we say that Jesus is the Son of God or a god; but not The God?

And who is the man that met Abraham in Genesis chapter 18? Was he God or a God?

Shabbath Shalum.

 

[Katzpur]

I have a real problem with people who use the word "cult" to describe any denomination they don't happen to agree with. It says a whole lot more about them that it does about the group they're describing.

 

[Domenic]

I have a real problem with people who use the word "cult" to describe any denomination they don't happen to agree with. It says a whole lot more about them that it does about the group they're describing.

You are going to have to deal with that problem yourself Kat. I was in that cult for thirty years. They control your family, friends, your whole life. Here is the key to their control:
Everything they teach is from the scriptures. The Jews also say Gods name is Jehovah This cult, Jehovah's Witnesses replaced all spots in the bible where it says Lord, or God with the name Jehovah. (7,000 times.) There is a scripture which says, "My people will be known by my name."They teach their members to spot a lie others tell about the bible. For thirty years I found no lie with the JW's. You can be disfellowshiped if you read anything outside of what they print. If you are disfellowshiped, your own family can't talk to you.
I went to the scrolls. Their Bible did match the scrolls. I spent years checking their history...That is when I found they had made many prophesies, and not one came true. The also made claim these prophesies came from God.
Since they din not come true, that marked them as false prophets. God would not have false prophets over his sheep.
There are also court cases they have lost. In the court transcripts they have said on the stand, "Yes those they disfellowshiped were correct in what the bible said., but it went against their unity. Every time they made a prophecy, they would sweep it under the rug with, "The closer to the end, the brighter the light gets." Yes they are a cult. The members are true servants of God. They are good people. Their leaders are cult leaders. I have found no religion that is from God. matter of fact, God says the Nations will destroy all false religion, and to get out of them my people." If a religion was from God, nothing could destroy it. All that is required of a Christian is to believe Jesus is the son of God.

 

[psychoslice]

I have a real problem with people who use the word "cult" to describe any denomination they don't happen to agree with. It says a whole lot more about them that it does about the group they're describing.

I agree with that, really all organized religions are cults, they had to be cultured from something, they all have their own beliefs how the scriptures should be read, and really they don't need to be read as everyone else reads them. True religion is found within each one of us, not outside of in some church, for me that is second-hand knowledge, we need to find our ion church, and from there we will see what is right for us.

 

[Katzpur]

You are going to have to deal with that problem yourself Kat. I was in that cult for thirty years. They control your family, friends, your whole life.

Well, you obviously know more about them than I do, then. I just know I get tired of fundamentalist Christians calling my denomination a cult, so I do tend to bristle just a bit whenever I see the term used.

 

[Katzpur]

However, the "holy spirit" is not a "ghost" and should not be labeled God.

I just want to discuss the first part of this sentence: "The holy spirit is not a ghost." I think this is just a difference in terminology, not in meaning. For instance, the word for ghost in German is "Geist." The word for spirit in German is "Geist." Since English is a germanic language, it would only make sense that the words basically mean the same thing and are interchangeable. I don't think anyone who calls the "Holy Spirit" the "Holy Ghost" thinks of the typical Hollywood or Disney representation of a ghost.

Personally, I think we get far too hung up on the words we use. We should work harder to comprehend the concepts behind the words, and try to genuinely understand what a person means when he or she picks a word we wouldn't have chosen. Instead, we seem to look for words we can use to tear each other's posts apart. We seem to be trying not to not understand one another.

 

[Kolibri]

I just want to discuss the first part of this sentence: "The holy spirit is not a ghost." I think this is just a difference in terminology, not in meaning. For instance, the word for ghost in German is "Geist." The word for spirit in German is "Geist." Since English is a germanic language, it would only make sense that the words basically mean the same thing and are interchangeable. I don't think anyone who calls the "Holy Spirit" the "Holy Ghost" thinks of the typical Hollywood or Disney representation of a ghost.

Personally, I think we get far too hung up on the words we use. We should work harder to comprehend the concepts behind the words, and try to genuinely understand what a person means when he or she picks a word we wouldn't have chosen. Instead, we seem to look for words we can use to tear each other's posts apart. We seem to be trying not to not understand one another.

Confusion is more probable with some words than others. The problem with the word "ghost" is it implies "person" if not a "spook" but you are correct Kaz. Knowing how a specific individual uses a word does help with comprehension.

 

[Domenic]

I agree with that, really all organized religions are cults, they had to be cultured from something, they all have their own beliefs how the scriptures should be read, and really they don't need to be read as everyone else reads them. True religion is found within each one of us, not outside of in some church, for me that is second-hand knowledge, we need to find our ion church, and from there we will see what is right for us.

If you believe there is a God who created us, that brings up a question: "Did he create humans so he could serve them, or did he create humans to serve him?

 

[Katzpur]

Confusion is more probable with some words than others. The problem with the word "ghost" is it implies "person" if not a "spook" but you are correct Kaz. Knowing how a specific individual uses a word does help with comprehension.

I think it can imply "spook," but it doesn't have to. I'm just curious... Here's a little assignment for you: How would a German Jehovah's Witness say "Holy Spirit"? (I'm assuming your version of the Bible comes in German.)

 

[Kolibri]

I think it can imply "spook," but it doesn't have to. I'm just curious... Here's a little assignment for you: How would a German Jehovah's Witness say "Holy Spirit"? (I'm assuming your version of the Bible comes in German.)

Interesting question. I haven't looked it up and even though i am German-Pole on my Dad's side of the family, I never tried to learn German. Let me quote a short verse and you can let me know.

But you, beloved ones, build yourselves up on your most holy faith, and pray with holy spirit,. - Jude 20 (NWT, 2013 Revision)
But YOU, beloved ones, by building up yourselves on YOUR most holy faith, and praying with holy spirit. - Jude 20 (NWT, 1984 Ed)
Ihr aber, Geliebte, indem ihr euch selbst an eurem allerheiligsten Glauben erbaut und mit heiligem Geist betet, - Judas 20 (Studienbibel)

Piecing things together I am guessing the 2013 Revision has not made it to German yet and they are still using the 1984 Reference Ed.

 

[katiemygirl]

OneThatGotAway, post: 4169581, member: 20501"]Is Jesus God? Is Jesus Yahweh God Almighty? The Holy Scriptures says definitely not.

I don't know what Scriptures you're reading, but the Bible says the word (Jesus) was God. (John 1:1)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

[Nada]

You clearly misunderstood me. That often happens when you have a pre-conceived idea of what someone believes. You read into their posts what you think they're saying instead of reading what they're really saying.

Oh....ok.It seems you are doing just that.Start with post #93 and work your way up.

 

[Katzpur]

Oh....ok.It seems you are doing just that.Start with post #93 and work your way up.

There's no need to do that. I had made a statement (in post #177) and you misunderstood it in post #178. What was said in post #93 and prior has no bearing on that fact.

Here's where you say, "Oh, sorry about that."
And where I say, "No biggie."