Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[katiemygirl]

False gods were those that were made with wood and stone, idols that could not see, nor hear, nor react in anyway.
By this definition, Jesus is not false. He is alive and truly mighty.
But to claim he is Almighty is also false.
To claim that he is the true God is false.

So no, he is not a false god, but "the triune god" is a false god cause no such thing lives.

So how many gods are there then? Seems like you believe in two gods, a mighty one and an almighty one. 1 mighty + 1 almighty = 2 gods

If God is the one TRUE God, then all others, by definition of TRUE, must be false.

By the way, God is also mighty God. Isaiah 10:20-21. Both God and Jesus are mighty God. Did you know that? So how can mighty God be lesser than almighty God?

If Jn.1:1 means their is a mighty and an almighty, then why did God say the following?

Isaiah 43:10: "No God was formed before me, nor will be after me. I, I am Jehovah, and there is no other Savior but me." Isn’t Jesus the savior? God knows of no other Gods, yet according to JW's, Jesus is suppose to be another god!

Jehovah says Isaiah 44:6: "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." Yet JW's say Jesus is a god.

Oh what a tangled web we weave!

 

[katiemygirl]

False gods were those that were made with wood and stone, idols that could not see, nor hear, nor react in anyway.
By this definition, Jesus is not false. He is alive and truly mighty.
But to claim he is Almighty is also false.
To claim that he is the true God is false.

So no, he is not a false god. But "the triune god" is a false god because no such thing lives.

If Jesus is not a true God, then he is a false god.

Anything that is not true is false.

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.

 

[Kolibri]

If Jesus is not a true God, then he is a false god.

Anything that is not true is false.

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.

getting caught up here on "a" verses "the"
there are many, many "mighty ones," even Jesus quoted the Psalms about unrighteous judges being 'gods'
but there is only one true God. One that is Almighty who has no beginning. The king of eternity, the one to whom all other "mighty ones" must acknowledge as mightier than they are.

 

[katiemygirl]

getting caught up here on "a" verses "the"
there are many, many "mighty ones," even Jesus quoted the Psalms about unrighteous judges being 'gods'
but there is only one true God. One that is Almighty who has no beginning. The king of eternity, the one to whom all other "mighty ones" must acknowledge as mightier than they are.

Oh but we're not talking about mighty ones. We're talking about mighty God and you really didn't address my posts. Here they are again.

So how many gods are there then? Seems like you believe in two gods, a mighty one and an almighty one. 1 mighty + 1 almighty = 2 gods

If God is the one TRUE God, then all others, by definition of TRUE, must be false.

By the way, God is also mighty God. Isaiah 10:20-21. Both God and Jesus are mighty God. Did you know that? So how can mighty God be lesser than almighty God?

If Jn.1:1 means their is a mighty and an almighty, then why did God say the following?

Isaiah 43:10: "No God was formed before me, nor will be after me. I, I am Jehovah, and there isno other Savior but me." Isn’t Jesus the savior? God knows of no other Gods, yet according to JW's, Jesus is suppose to be another god!

Jehovah says Isaiah 44:6: "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." Yet JW's say Jesus is a god.

AND

If Jesus is not a true God, then he is a false god.

Anything that is not true is false.

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.

 

[Kolibri]

Oh but we're not talking about mighty ones. We're talking about mighty God and you really didn't address my posts. Here they are again.

So how many gods are there then? Seems like you believe in two gods, a mighty one and an almighty one. 1 mighty + 1 almighty = 2 gods

If God is the one TRUE God, then all others, by definition of TRUE, must be false.

By the way, God is also mighty God. Isaiah 10:20-21. Both God and Jesus are mighty God. Did you know that? So how can mighty God be lesser than almighty God?

If Jn.1:1 means their is a mighty and an almighty, then why did God say the following?

Isaiah 43:10: "No God was formed before me, nor will be after me. I, I am Jehovah, and there isno other Savior but me." Isn’t Jesus the savior? God knows of no other Gods, yet according to JW's, Jesus is suppose to be another god!

Jehovah says Isaiah 44:6: "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." Yet JW's say Jesus is a god.

AND

If Jesus is not a true God, then he is a false god.

Anything that is not true is false.

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.

re: Isaiah 10
Is almighty = mighty, yes.
Does mighty = almighty, maybe, not always

While Jehovah's Witnesses acknowledge Jesus to be mighty and Jehovah to be mighty, only one of them is Almighty.
and this 1 mighty + 1 almighty = 2 gods goes not match up with Jesus words at John 10:34,35.
that verse say there are many gods - and many of them are humans. Guess you could say there are hundreds if not more gods.
The equation would be more like 1 mighty + 1 mighty ,,,,,,..........+ 1 almighty = ???? gods.
Yet we are not polytheistic.
There is only one Almighty, and he "requires exclusive devotion." (Ex 20:5)

 

[JayJayDee]

@ katiemygirl.
You are sounding desperate and angry when the clear and simple explanation has been presented to you many times. You can hang onto the trinity all you like...but the simple truth is, the Bible does not teach it.

No Jew believes in a trinity to this day....Jesus was Jewish. He didn't come to start a new religion but to clean up the old one and fulfill its law. We worship the same God that Jesus still worships and serves, even in heaven. (Rev 3:12)

No one knew better than Jesus did who his God and Father was....so shouldn't we see unequivocal statements from him confirming such a foundational doctrine?

The truth is...there is no such doctrine obtained from scripture. It is taken from an apostate church centuries before any of us were born, woven into several ambiguous verses to make it fit.
It has been hammered as the primary doctrine of Christianity for hundreds of years, when in actual fact it is an invention of the devil to confuse the true identity of God and get the majority on the road to death. How I wish we could help you see that you are gravely mistaken. This is why "few" are on the road to life.
These few have left "Babylon the great" and all her unscriptural beliefs behind and come into Jehovah's tent of spiritual protection. (Rev 18:4, 5; 21:2-5)
The hope for the majority of mankind is earthly, not heavenly.

 

[moorea944]

I agree. The Jews are God's chosen people. You would think that the trinity would be their doctrine. It is not. Why? No Jew believes in the trinity. That right there, should tell you something.

They were taught and told there is one God. The creator and sustainer of all things. One God.
Isaiah - "There is only one God, no God beside Me, if there is, I dont know any". Mainstream Christianity says that's wrong, there are Gods beside our God. God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And that.... is not even in the bible.

 

[psychoslice]

I feel that the trinity is just the level of Consciousness, there's self consciousness, the body, Christ Consciousness or the Buddha, or whatever name you like, and there's Super-consciousness the so called father. They are all one, as there are levels in the ocean, but the ocean is one.

 

[katiemygirl]

I agree. The Jews are God's chosen people. You would think that the trinity would be their doctrine. It is not. Why? No Jew believes in the trinity. That right there, should tell you something.

They were taught and told there is one God. The creator and sustainer of all things. One God.
Isaiah - "There is only one God, no God beside Me, if there is, I dont know any". Mainstream Christianity says that's wrong, there are Gods beside our God. God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And that.... is not even in the bible.

The majority ofJews didn't believesJesus was the Son of God either. Should I look to them as my role model? The majority of them didn't even recognize who Jesus was when He did come, and they supposedly knew the Scriptures. I wouldn't be drawing my conclusions based on what the Jews believed or didn't believe. Seems to me they were wrong on much of their thinking.

 

[katiemygirl]

@ katiemygirl.
You are sounding desperate and angry

Please stop making all of your posts personal. You can attack my beliefs, but I'm asking you to stop insulting me. Your comment above is not so bad by itself, but couple it with the many personal comments from all of your other posts, and it becomes an attack. If you really are trying to lead people to Christ, you're going about it the wrong way. Try following apostle Paul's advice.

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Col. 4:6

Now how about answering my question.

You claim Jesus is a god.

If there is but only ONE TRUE GOD, then does this make Jesus a false god?

A long dissertation not necessary!

 

[katiemygirl]

"

Jesus did claim He was God.

Jesus said to see Him is the same as seeing God who sent Him. He didn't use the words reflection or image.

Jesus shouted to the crowds, "If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark." (John 12:45)

"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!" (John 14:7)

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"

Jesus could ask some of the people living today, "Have I been with you all this time and you still don't know me? And sadly, they will still deny His deity.

 

[Kolibri]

Jesus did claim He was God.

Jesus said to see Him is the same as seeing God who sent Him. He didn't use the words reflection or image.

Jesus shouted to the crowds, "If you trust me, you are trusting not only me, but also God who sent me. For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark." (John 12:45)

"No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!" (John 14:7)

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"

Jesus could ask some of the people living today, "Have I been with you all this time and you still don't know me? And sadly, they will still deny His deity.

All three of those verses mean just the opposite

"....God who sent me...." (John 12:45)
".....except through me...." (John 14:7)
you quote John 14:9, which is fine, and yet Jesus explains his statement in verse 10.

"Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works." - John 14:9b-10

"...I will ask the Father....(John 14:16)

"In that day you will know that I am in union with my Father and you are in union with me and I am in union with you." - John 14:20
(a whole lot more than 3, if one wanted to try to use "in union" of verse 10 to say they are the same.)

There really is no challenge at all to read John w/o the "Jesus is God" spin. We come to the conclusion that "these [things] have been written down so that [we] may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." - John 20:31

 

[katiemygirl]

Jesus is YHWH

YHWH says He is the First and the Last.
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;

Jesus says He, the one who was dead and is now alive forevermore is the First and the Last.
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (Rev.1:17-18)

YHWH says He is the only savior.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.

The apostle Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit declared that Jesus was savior.
11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. (Luke 2:11)

YHWH speaking in Zech. 12:10 says He was pierced.
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

This can refer to no one other than Christ.

The evidence throughout the Bible is overwhelming. Jesus is YHWH![/QUOTE]

 

[moorea944]

Jesus is YHWH

YHWH says He is the First and the Last.
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;

Jesus says He, the one who was dead and is now alive forevermore is the First and the Last.
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (Rev.1:17-18)

YHWH says He is the only savior.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.

The apostle Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit declared that Jesus was savior.
11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. (Luke 2:11)

YHWH speaking in Zech. 12:10 says He was pierced.
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

This can refer to no one other than Christ.

The evidence throughout the Bible is overwhelming. Jesus is YHWH!

[/QUOTE]
There is no evidence that Jesus is God. Your reading it wrong. You are told that in your church, so your brining it into the bible.

Jesus is not Yahweh. That's so sad that you actually think that. There is only one God AND Jesus. Those verses your putting the trinity into them and you shouldnt. You really dont see God working through His Son do you.....

[YHWH says He is the only savior.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.]
Show me that verse. God is our ultimite saviour, but now, He does it through His son. Jesus is also our saviour now, but that doesnt make him God.

 

[Kolibri]

YHWH speaking in Zech. 12:10 says He was pierced.
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

Some Bibles translate this as "me." Some as "him." Regardless this is not a case of Jesus is Jehovah when you take into consideration Matthew 25:40.
"In reply the King will say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

 

[Kolibri]

YHWH says He is the only savior.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.

This is Isaiah 43:11 and yet let's look at Jude 25
"to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority for all past eternity and now and into all eternity. Amen."

 

[Kolibri]

YHWH says He is the First and the Last.
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;

This is what Jehovah says,
The King of Israel and his Repurchaser,
Jehovah of armies:
'I am the first and I am the last.
There is no God but me.'
- Isaiah 44:6

The last line is important. It shows that this meaning of first and last to be the same meaning as the title Alpha and Omega - always and forever "God Almighty". (Ex 6:3; Re 1:8; 22:13)

Jesus says He, the one who was dead and is now alive forevermore is the First and the Last.
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (Rev.1:17-18)

Jesus being titled First and Last is for a different reason - you can see this from the follow-up phrase "and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever."

He was first to be resurrected to immortal spirit life (Col 1:18; Re 1:5)
He was the last to be resurrected by Jehovah directly. (Acts 13:33; 1 Thess 4:16)

 

[katiemygirl]

All three of those verses mean just the opposite

"....God who sent me...." (John 12:45)
".....except through me...." (John 14:7)
you quote John 14:9, which is fine, and yet Jesus explains his statement in verse 10.

"Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works." - John 14:9b-10

"...I will ask the Father....(John 14:16)

"In that day you will know that I am in union with my Father and you are in union with me and I am in union with you." - John 14:20
(a whole lot more than 3, if one wanted to try to use "in union" of verse 10 to say they are the same.)

There really is no challenge at all to read John w/o the "Jesus is God" spin. We come to the conclusion that "these [things] have been written down so that [we] may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." - John 20:31

You have not disproven Jesus' statements in John 12:45 or John 14:7.

Your reasoning is that Jesus' statement in John 12:45 is false because God sent Jesus? John also wrote in 12:45, " And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." How does God sent Jesus disprove that he who sees Me (Jesus) sees Him (God) who sent me?

Again, your reasoning is that because Jesus said no one can come to the Father except through me in verse 6, that this disproves what Jesus has said in verse 7? How does no one can come to me except through the Father disprove Jesus' words in John 14:7, "If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"

How does John 14:10 negate Jesus' statement? How does Jesus saying I am in the Father, and the Father is in me negate Jesus saying He who has seen Me has seen the Father? "9...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

Yes, Jesus and His Father are united, but that doesn't make the first half of His statement a lie.

How does John 14:16 disprove what Jesus stated in John 12:45, John 14:7? Here it is.

"16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever"

How does John 14:20 disprove what Jesus stated in John 12:45 and John 14:7? Here it is.

20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

How does Jesus being in the Father (united with Him) disprove Jesus' other statements?


"And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." John 12:45

"If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!" John 14:7

Answer: They do not!

I challenge you to prove that Jesus lied.

 

[katiemygirl]

There is no evidence that Jesus is God. Your reading it wrong. You are told that in your church, so your brining it into the bible.

Jesus is not Yahweh. That's so sad that you actually think that. There is only one God AND Jesus. Those verses your putting the trinity into them and you shouldnt. You really dont see God working through His Son do you.....

[YHWH says He is the only savior.
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.]
Show me that verse. God is our ultimite saviour, but now, He does it through His son. Jesus is also our saviour now, but that doesnt make him God.

Comments like "You are reading it wrong," "You are told that in your church," and "That's so sad that you actually think that" are uncalled for and unnecessary. Stop making the debates on this forum personal You can attack the trinity and other controversial topics all you want, but please do not make these kinds of comments to me again.

We ALL need to act like christians. I understand your passion. I, too, am passionate, but I am not besmirching your character in any way shape or form. So please stop making personal remarks about mine!

What does "besides me there is no savior" mean? It means there isn't another one, doesn't it? Did God lie?

 

[katiemygirl]

Some Bibles translate this as "me." Some as "him." Regardless this is not a case of Jesus is Jehovah when you take into consideration Matthew 25:40.
"In reply the King will say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

Matthew 25:40 in no way disproves what YHWH said. He said, "then they will look on Me whom they pierced." You cannot negate one Scripture with another. Scripture cannot be broken!

Matthew 25:40.
"In reply the King will say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

YHWH speaking in Zech. 12:10 says He was pierced.
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.