Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[savagewind]

Can a man know he will endure faithful and be raised to Heaven? I say your own literature says the answer is NO. Are you following me? So when someone says "I am one of the 144,000" can he be telling the truth?

 

[katiemygirl]

The Kingdom of Heaven is ruled from heaven, by Jesus and the 144,000, and they rule over EARTH. The annointed 144,000 don't "inherit" heven, they are chosen out of the firstfruits of mankind to be Jesus' brothers, in heaven. NO ONE ELSE GOES TO HEAVEN, EVER. Inheriting the Kingdom doesn't mean going to heaven. It means inheriting the Kingdom, whose domain is EARTH. Arguing over God's arrangement makes no sense. You argue with men over what God purposed to do and arrange. Argue with Him. He set it up. But, that will make you His enemy.

Are you an anointed Jehovah's Witness Mike?

 

[MikeSavage]

Luke 10 16-- about listening to Jesus anointed teachers--see if one rejects them--they reject Jesus and God as well--pretty simple
Or do you think Jesus appointed them for nothing?

Luke 10:16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me. And whoever disregards you disregards me also. Moreover, whoever disregards me disregards also him who sent me.”

They were annointed the night before Jesus died. At the time Jesus said this, regarding disciples and apostles, they weren't holy spirit annointed.

So, what is your point?

 

[Pegg]

Pegg,
John 10:16 is talking about Gentiles. It is they who are the sheep not of this fold. Later, at the house of Cornelius, the Gentiles would become part of the ONE fold under the one shepherd, Jesus Christ.

thats not what the scriptures say. They say there are 'other sheep who are NOT of this fold'

Jesus words show there are two folds, not one.

Matthew 5:3 says no such thing. It does not say some will inherit heaven and some will inherit earth.

Yes, that is exactly what it says.
Matt 5:
3 “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need,*+ since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.
5 “Happy are the mild-tempered,*+ since they will inherit the earth

If you can't see that, its because you refuse to see that.

Jesus said those who are born of water and the Spirit would enter the kingdom of heaven. All christians are born of water and the Spirit.

Yes, he did say that. Can you explain what it means to be born of water and spirit?[/QUOTE]

 

[Pegg]

For My JW Friends Pegg, Kolibri, KJW47 and Mike Savage:

Do any of you consider yourselves anointed?

not me.

 

[savagewind]

thats not what the scriptures say. They say there are 'other sheep who are NOT of this fold'

Jesus words show there are two folds, not one.

No. One Shepherd and two folds means one fold is without a shepherd. The two folds would become one as all the sheep gather to Jesus Christ.

 

[MikeSavage]

thats not what the scriptures say. They say there are 'other sheep who are NOT of this fold'

Jesus words show there are two folds, not one.

The little flock is the holy spirit annointed 144,000, the only ones to go to heaven. The great flock, or great crowd, are the ones associated with the little flock. The great flock are the ones who are protected during Armageddon, and won't die, ever. They are the ones who've discerned the entire will of God, and who perform that will every day, in all things, and who don't associate with any man made religion, make war, or are part of any government, and who do not engage in works of the flesh.

 

[Pegg]

The little flock is the holy spirit annointed 144,000, the only ones to go to heaven. The great flock, or great crowd, are the ones associated with the little flock. The great flock are the ones who are protected during Armageddon, and won't die, ever. They are the ones who've discerned the entire will of God, and who perform that will every day, in all things, and who don't associate with any man made religion, make war, or are part of any government, and who do not engage in works of the flesh.

agreed... but not sure what you mean by 'they dont associate with any man-made religion' ???

 

[MikeSavage]

agreed... but not sure what you mean by 'they dont associate with any man-made religion' ???

In the letter to the Christian Congregation in Galatia, chapter 5:19-21, it lists works of the flesh, and sects/denominations/dissentions are listed therein. Religions created by man, Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, LDS, SDA, and so on. They didn't exist then, but they do now, and God doesn't change. The religions created by man are false and are called works of the flesh. Revelation says they will all be destroyed. Jesus taught, not a religion, but "the one true faith" as he called it. All religions teach something different from God's inspired word, and they all teach something different from each other. They are all false. Satan first introduced religion in the garden in Eden. He taught Eve things about God, that differ from what God says, or said, about Himself. They have been in opposition to God ever since, religions that is.

 

[katiemygirl]

The remnant of the holy spirit annointed sons of God, Jesus' co-ruler and co-princes are the channel. The governing body is made up of those annointed, the remnant. Bear in mind that the 144,000 holy spirit annointed firstfruits are the only men to go to heaven ever. As they die, they are transformed into spirit beings and taken to be with Jesus in heaven. The remnant of them continue to work with Jesus while on Earth. The governing body is made up of these men, or some of them, rather. That remnant comprising the governing body are the faithful and discreet slave.

Please prove your false claim.

According to the following verses, ALL christians are anointed.

Paul, writing to the church (ALL christians) of God at Corinth with (ALL) the saints throughout Achaia. (See 2 Cor. 1:1)

2 Corithians 1:21 "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God."

Please show me ANYWHERE in Paul's 2nd letter to the Corinthians that he is writing to a "select" group and not ALL christians.

1John 2:20 "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know."

1John 2:27 "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

Please show me ANYWHERE in John's letter that he is writing to a "select" group and not ALL christians.

God is no respecter of persons! Romans 2:11

 

[MikeSavage]

Please prove your false claim.

According to the following verses, ALL christians are anointed.

Paul, writing to the church (ALL christians) of God at Corinth with (ALL) the saints throughout Achaia.

2 Corithians 1:21 "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God."

Please show me ANYWHERE in Paul's 2nd letter to the Corinthians that he is writing to a "select" group and not ALL christians.

1John 2:20 "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know."

1John 2:27 "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

Please show me ANYWHERE in John's letter that he is writing to a "select" group and not ALL christians.

God is no respecter of persons! Romans 2:11

There is one very important failing in your reasoning. Actually, two. First of all, God said we should never rely on our own understanding, and you've done that here. Secondly, all the letters comprising the Christian Greek scriptures (New Testament) are written BY, and addressed TO, only annointed Christians. Keep that in mind, and re-read your quoted scriptures.

 

[savagewind]

There is one very important failing in your reasoning. Actually, two. First of all, God said we should never rely on our own understanding, and you've done that here. Secondly, all the letters comprising the Christian Greek scriptures (New Testament) are written BY, and addressed TO, only annointed Christians. Keep that in mind, and re-read your quoted scriptures.

Is it OK for the anointed to lean on their own understanding? They do. How do I know this? Because the 144,000 are in Heaven but some people who are not in Heaven have claimed their place among the 144,000. Isn't that leaning on their own understanding?

 

[katiemygirl]

thats not what the scriptures say. They say there are 'other sheep who are NOT of this fold'

Jesus words show there are two folds, not one.

Yes, two folds: Jews & Gentiles. They became one fold at the house of Cornelius.

 

[savagewind]

Two folds might even mean people who profess Jesus and are imbued with Holy Spirit and the others who are not but profess Jesus Christ, Son of God for salvation.

 

[MikeSavage]

Yes, two folds: Jews & Gentiles. They become one fold at the house of Cornelius.

No. That is incorrect. The Christian Greek scriptures are pretty clear that Isral's house has been abandoned to them for killing the Christ. Israel, physical Israel, is no longer God's chosen nation. SPIRITUAL Israel is not that nation. It includes all nations, tongues, and peoples. The little flock and the great flock are comprised of all nations, tongues, and peoples. The death of Jesus marked the end of the Law covenant also. Most who claim to be Jewish, choose to ignore all but the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures. They only recognize what Moses wrote. That's tantamount to saying that we believe God, but only the first fifth of what He inspired to be written. The rest, we choose to disbelieve. Not very smart, reasonable, or safe.

 

[katiemygirl]

There is one very important failing in your reasoning. Actually, two. First of all, God said we should never rely on our own understanding, and you've done that here. Secondly, all the letters comprising the Christian Greek scriptures (New Testament) are written BY, and addressed TO, only annointed Christians. Keep that in mind, and re-read your quoted scriptures.

ALL christians are anointed. Please prove to me they are not.

Think about what you are saying. Paul is writing to the church at Corinth, yet you say the church is comprised of only the anointed (which I agree with). But looking at it from the JW's perspective, if the church is only the anointed, then the non anointed JW's are not in the church. I think my friend Pegg would disagree with you here.

The Scriptures teach that the church is the called out. The called out are saved. They are anointed.

If you are a christian, you have been washed in the blood of the lamb, Jesus Christ. Your sins have been forgiven. You have received the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells you. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. You are in Christ where all spiritual blessings are found, including being anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Do you even know what it means to be anointed?

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes, he did say that. Can you explain what it means to be born of water and spirit?

Happily!
Those who are born of water and the Spirit are those who have been baptized.

It's the washing of rebirth (Titus 3:4-7)

 

[savagewind]

The doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses has taken out mercy and replaced it with "God's undeserved kindness". You can't talk to JWs about mercy as they do not believe in it.

4 However, when the kindness of our Savior, God,+ and his love for mankind were manifested5 (not because of any righteous works we had done,+ but because of his own mercy),+ he saved us by means of the bath that brought us to life+ and by making us new by holy spirit.+6 He poured this spirit out richly* on us through Jesus Christ our Savior,+7 so that after being declared righteous through the undeserved kindness of that one,+ we might become heirs+ according to a hope of everlasting life.+

 

[MikeSavage]

ALL christians are anointed. Please prove to me they are not.

Think about what you are saying. Paul is writing to the church at Corinth, yet you say the church is comprised of only the anointed (which I agree with). But looking at it from the JW's perspective, if the church is only the anointed, then the non anointed JW's are not in the church. I think my friend Pegg would disagree with you here.

The Scriptures teach that the church is the called out. The called out are saved. They are anointed.

If you are a christian, you have been washed in the blood of the lamb, Jesus Christ. Your sins have been forgiven. You have received the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells you. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. You are in Christ where all spiritual blessings are found, including being anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Do you even know what it means to be anointed?

I don't need to . You can see it in the scriptures. Paul is not writing to the church, he is writing to the Congregation. Your Bible mistranslated the word "ecclesia", which means people or congregation, into church. None of the scrolls in existence us the word church. KJV and almost all other translations changed congregation to church. And your sins haven't been forgiven, unless you ASK for forgiveness, repent, and stop doing the sin any more. It's not automatic. Christians in general are NOT annointed with holy spirit. Only the apostles, disciples, and the little flock. NO ONE ELSE.

 

[katiemygirl]

No. That is incorrect. The Christian Greek scriptures are pretty clear that Isral's house has been abandoned to them for killing the Christ. Israel, physical Israel, is no longer God's chosen nation. SPIRITUAL Israel is not that nation. It includes all nations, tongues, and peoples. The little flock and the great flock are comprised of all nations, tongues, and peoples. The death of Jesus marked the end of the Law covenant also. Most who claim to be Jewish, choose to ignore all but the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures. They only recognize what Moses wrote. That's tantamount to saying that we believe God, but only the first fifth of what He inspired to be written. The rest, we choose to disbelieve. Not very smart, reasonable, or safe.

So far all we see is your opinions. How about supporting what you say with Scripture.