Abrahamics Only: Should there be a Karaite label under the Judaism tab?

[Simplelogic]

Of course there are weightier matters of the Torah. But YHVH tells us to diligently keep His commands. This means we must search the WHOLE Torah to see which commands can logically be kept outside of Israel. Dietary laws are still applicable as well as the niddah laws concerning blood. Sacrifices will resume when the messiah comes as well as Levitical Temple regulations. We do not need to attempt these things until that time. I believe we should celebrate His feasts as well to the best of our abilities.

I agree with priority being given two the Shema and loving our neighbors. I also believe the 10 commands should be giving special attention.

We have to remember though that Yeshua said not one jot or tittle will pass from the Torah until heaven and earth pass away. Yeshua also says that anyone who negates the smallest Torah command will be called the least by those in the Kingdom.

 

[Simplelogic]

Joke's on you.

I guess you are unaware that YHVH says He will bring the Jewish people back. NOT because of their repentance! But because of His names sake. If you have never been to Israel before then I suggest you do. The Jewish people are still rebellious and unrepentant towards YHVH. Unfortunately more judgement will have to come for their to be true repentance.

 

[Simplelogic]

Feel free to wade through these proofs and decide that, somehow, they don't prove anything.

Proofs For The Oral Law

point 14 makes an interesting case for the divine authority conferred upon the judges of any generation to interpret and apply based on logic and inference, while point 4 refers explicitly to a body of law absent from the written text.

Worst "proof" I have ever seen. Let me know if you want to go through these one by one. Hilarious.

 

[rosends]

Sure. Start with the classic. Point 4.

 

[nothead]

Of course there are weightier matters of the Torah. But YHVH tells us to diligently keep His commands. This means we must search the WHOLE Torah to see which commands can logically be kept outside of Israel. Dietary laws are still applicable as well as the niddah laws concerning blood. Sacrifices will resume when the messiah comes as well as Levitical Temple regulations. We do not need to attempt these things until that time. I believe we should celebrate His feasts as well to the best of our abilities.

I agree with priority being given two the Shema and loving our neighbors. I also believe the 10 commands should be giving special attention.

We have to remember though that Yeshua said not one jot or tittle will pass from the Torah until heaven and earth pass away. Yeshua also says that anyone who negates the smallest Torah command will be called the least by those in the Kingdom.

Actually, all the little ones are under the big ones. "Upon which all the Law and the Prophets hang."

Get the biggies, and you have all the little ones. The disciples ate grains on the sabbath. This was technically verboten, even unto death before, Num 15 (for picking up sticks). Jesus healed on the sabbath, a considered WORK which he then claimed the authority to do. "My Father works on the Sabbath, so do I."

He was called a winebibber and a glutton, because he foresook the stringent dietary laws of the Pharisees, and drank wine when it was available. Instead of straining all the gnats through a mesh, we as Christians regard the CORE of Law and let the Spirit lead us.

This sounds weird to a true Jew, but it is not for a Gentile Abrahamic. There is no way he is gonna feel right about sifting through the myriad small law.

 

[rosends]

Actually, all the little ones are under the big ones. "Upon which all the Law and the Prophets hang."

Get the biggies, and you have all the little ones. The disciples ate grains on the sabbath. This was technically verboten, even unto death before, Num 15 (for picking up sticks). Jesus healed on the sabbath, a considered WORK which he then claimed the authority to do. "My Father works on the Sabbath, so do I."

He was called a winebibber and a glutton, because he foresook the stringent dietary laws of the Pharisees, and drank wine when it was available. Instead of straining all the gnats through a mesh, we as Christians regard the CORE of Law and let the Spirit lead us.

This sounds weird to a true Jew, but it is not for a Gentile Abrahamic. There is no way he is gonna feel right about sifting through the myriad small law.

I never understood the claim that Judaism teaches that healing on the sabbath is forbidden. That simply isn't the case. http://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/shiur.asp?id=9002

In fact, the talmud actually teaches that one who stops to ask whether it is even permissible to heal on the sabbath is guilty of bloodshed.

 

[Simplelogic]

I never understood the claim that Judaism teaches that healing on the sabbath is forbidden. That simply isn't the case. http://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/shiur.asp?id=9002

In fact, the talmud actually teaches that one who stops to ask whether it is even permissible to heal on the sabbath is guilty of bloodshed.

Healing on Sabbath was a first century issue. Opinions have evolved over time but even today there are sects in Israel that would not drive a sick person to a hospital on Shabbat. Very sad.

 

[Simplelogic]

Actually, all the little ones are under the big ones. "Upon which all the Law and the Prophets hang."

Get the biggies, and you have all the little ones. The disciples ate grains on the sabbath. This was technically verboten, even unto death before, Num 15 (for picking up sticks). Jesus healed on the sabbath, a considered WORK which he then claimed the authority to do. "My Father works on the Sabbath, so do I."

He was called a winebibber and a glutton, because he foresook the stringent dietary laws of the Pharisees, and drank wine when it was available. Instead of straining all the gnats through a mesh, we as Christians regard the CORE of Law and let the Spirit lead us.

This sounds weird to a true Jew, but it is not for a Gentile Abrahamic. There is no way he is gonna feel right about sifting through the myriad small law.

Yeshua NEVER said that it was OK to work on the Sabbath. He did say it was OK to heal though. Sifting grain has nothing to do with breaking Sabbath.

 

[Levite]

Yeshua NEVER said that it was OK to work on the Sabbath. He did say it was OK to heal though. Sifting grain has nothing to do with breaking Sabbath.

Of course it does. Sifting is one of the 39 Melachot. That's basic Mishnah.

 

[Simplelogic]

Of course it does. Sifting is one of the 39 Melachot. That's basic Mishnah.

I was speaking of the written Torah, as I usually am.

 

[Flankerl]

I guess you are unaware that YHVH says He will bring the Jewish people back. NOT because of their repentance! But because of His names sake. If you have never been to Israel before then I suggest you do. The Jewish people are still rebellious and unrepentant towards YHVH. Unfortunately more judgement will have to come for their to be true repentance.

Ah the good old "Accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour".

Oh a quick question: Some Jews never left the Land and lived there till today. Do they have to repent too? How does that work?

 

[nothead]

I never understood the claim that Judaism teaches that healing on the sabbath is forbidden. That simply isn't the case. http://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/shiur.asp?id=9002

In fact, the talmud actually teaches that one who stops to ask whether it is even permissible to heal on the sabbath is guilty of bloodshed.

I can see right away you are referencing Midrash. Not core law, but a rabbi's interpretation thereof. You have to then affirm the rabbi as inerrant, which I do not.

Simple common sense says Jesus only healed by the power of his God. If God healed the man impotent at the Well in Bethesda, then of course this is lawful and by the power of God. Even Nicodemus said so, a Pharisee.

 

[nothead]

Yeshua NEVER said that it was OK to work on the Sabbath. He did say it was OK to heal though. Sifting grain has nothing to do with breaking Sabbath.

Plucking grains and eating them was. A rabbi only considers specific law applications. Common sense will consider the HEART of the matter and apply this themselves to modern applications. For instance "to carry two miles, when demanded to carry one mile." This was probably in reference to a Roman soldier who demanded a Jew to carry his pack. But this will never occur in OUR lives, so then how is this law applied?

It is the difference between the LETTER of the Law and the HEART of the Core Law of Moses, then Jesus, sir.

 

[rosends]

I can see right away you are referencing Midrash. Not core law, but a rabbi's interpretation thereof. You have to then affirm the rabbi as inerrant, which I do not.

Simple common sense says Jesus only healed by the power of his God. If God healed the man impotent at the Well in Bethesda, then of course this is lawful and by the power of God. Even Nicodemus said so, a Pharisee.

You see wrong. This is not midrash. It is oral law. However, you won't find in the written text any statement that healing is not permitted so the Christian text must ALSO be referencing the idea of work derived in the talmud. This makes sense as Jesus endorsed the Pharisaic teachings.

 

[rosends]

Healing on Sabbath was a first century issue. Opinions have evolved over time but even today there are sects in Israel that would not drive a sick person to a hospital on Shabbat. Very sad.

Really? Can you show me a "sect" which doesn't hold by pikuach nefesh?

 

[Simplelogic]

Plucking grains and eating them was. A rabbi only considers specific law applications. Common sense will consider the HEART of the matter and apply this themselves to modern applications. For instance "to carry two miles, when demanded to carry one mile." This was probably in reference to a Roman soldier who demanded a Jew to carry his pack. But this will never occur in OUR lives, so then how is this law applied?

It is the difference between the LETTER of the Law and the HEART of the Core Law of Moses, then Jesus, sir.

Ok then. Show me were in the Torah we are prohibited from plucking a head of grain. If you can, then I will believe you.

 

[Simplelogic]

You see wrong. This is not midrash. It is oral law. However, you won't find in the written text any statement that healing is not permitted so the Christian text must ALSO be referencing the idea of work derived in the talmud. This makes sense as Jesus endorsed the Pharisaic teachings.

Actually Yeshua condemned Pharisaic teachings throughout his lifetime. I have done 5 other threads on this very topic.

 

[Levite]

I was speaking of the written Torah, as I usually am.

Well there's your problem. Might as well reference a book's chapter headings without actually reading the contents of the chapters.

 

[rosends]

Actually Yeshua condemned Pharisaic teachings throughout his lifetime. I have done 5 other threads on this very topic.

No, he endorsed the teachings, but not the behaviors/actions of the teachers. It doesn't take 5 threads to read Matt 23:2-3.

 

[dantech]

Yeshua NEVER said that it was OK to work on the Sabbath. He did say it was OK to heal though. Sifting grain has nothing to do with breaking Sabbath.

Why do you listen to what Jesus says? I thought you were against Rabbinic Judaism. I thought you didn't need teachers since the Written Torah, which you consider enough to completely understand Judaism, was written for 6th graders.