Lord Shiva devotees only: What is your experience?

[mystic64]

I am a yogi mystic and Lord Shiva visited me about twenty years ago. From there we became very good friends. To me Lord Shiva is a living person who is an example of what a yogi can achieve. I am not Hindu, I am just a yogi with thousands of hours of meditation experience over a forty year time period. The OP question for discussion and debate is, "As a devotee to Lord Shiva, what is "your" experience with Lord Shiva? And how do you see and approach/worship him as a divine entity/personality?" "Do you feel that he is a physically immortal person that still resides on this planet and an example of what a yogi can become or is he just another god that is a gift to Humankind?"

I am not a Hindu, but I am an advanced yogi and I am really good friends with one of the Hindu gods. What I would like to do is discuss/debate(?) what he actually is and what experiences those that are his devotees or as I have him, as a friend have had with him. Who is and what is this awesome person that is Lord Shiva to you?

Are there any others on this message board that know or worship Lord Shiva that would like to talk about their experiences with and opinions/beliefs on Lord Shiva?

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm a Saivite Hindu, so I believe Lord Siva is God, by definition.

 

[mystic64]

I'm a Saivite Hindu, so I believe Lord Siva is God, by definition.

Thank you Vinayaka for responding to this topic. I did a wikipedea search on Saivite Hindu and then on Shiva/Siva and I learned a bunch of things , so your responce has been very fruitful in my reality. I have no problem with Lord Shiva/Siva being God. Based on my experience with Him, He is all powerful with no limitations at all. And He seems to be a very loving and a very powerful (in an absolute sense) entity.

Vinayaka, may I ask you which Saivite discipline or school of belief that it is that you follow? Lord Shiva/Siva has taught me everything that I know as an advanced yogi, so I am curious about how those that are Hindu interact with Him and establish a working relationship with Him. And apparently there are eight or more different approaches or belief systems that worship Him. Is there a website where I could have a look at your approach to the worship of Lord Shiva/Siva?

Vinayaka, I have no desire in this lifetime to be a Gruru/teacher I am more along the lines of an ascetic mystic, but I am interested in how Lord Shiva/Siva is approached when one is a Hindu. And maybe if possible to also compare notes with some of those that are His followers/devoted to Him.

 

[Vinayaka]

What do you mean by 'advanced yogi'? I'm having a hard time understanding that, as there are so many different ideas/definitions. If there;s going to be a discussion, we should have similar concepts.

Himalayan Academy's website will give you the understanding of my tradition. It's called monistic Saiva Siddhanta.

As a Saivite Hindu, my whole life revolves around Siva. He's the center of my home shrine, I pilgrimage to Siva temples, etc.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I'm not really a Shaivite per se, but Lord Shiva is a large part of my pantheon. When I contemplate on his nature, or even look into his eyes when at temple, I feel as if though I'm a part of something greater than myself. I feel, even though we are in the middle of a seemingly cold and uncaring universe, that there is just something greater that we have yet to find.

Or maybe, just maybe, such a thing is something that can't be empirically measured, but rather personally experienced.

 

[mystic64]

What do you mean by 'advanced yogi'? I'm having a hard time understanding that, as there are so many different ideas/definitions. If there;s going to be a discussion, we should have similar concepts.

Himalayan Academy's website will give you the understanding of my tradition. It's called monistic Saiva Siddhanta.

As a Saivite Hindu, my whole life revolves around Siva. He's the center of my home shrine, I pilgrimage to Siva temples, etc.

Vinayaka , We are in luck. My training is basically Siddha, or at least a version of it realitive to what I have read about the Siddha tradition. What do I mean by advanced? Exploring the knowledges and understandings that are beyond words is the only way I can describe it. I achieved a solid quiet mind state somewhere around over fifteen years ago. I have achieved the point of the observer that is looking through two lenses without being attached to the observed (annihilation of self) and sharing as the observer with the supreme observer as one with no self involved with the experience. My main problem at this point in time is maintaing a physical and mental attachment to physical reality. We mystics have that problem when we reach a certain level argg. And I have never be that attached to life to begin with.

Lord Shiva/Siva is now helping me to stay anchored in physical reality. Vinayaka, I have been up the creek and now the challenge is to get back down it again. So anyway, I will go study the website that you have given me so that I will have a better understanding of your definition of terms in the hope of further discussion. And I started this topic because Lord Shiva/Siva suggested that I do it and I have no actual expectations attached to why. Other than the possibility of the meeting of others that have Lord Shiva/Siva in common, even if Lord Shiva/Siva is the only thing that we have in common .

 

[mystic64]

I'm not really a Shaivite per se, but Lord Shiva is a large part of my pantheon. When I contemplate on his nature, or even look into his eyes when at temple, I feel as if though I'm a part of something greater than myself. I feel, even though we are in the middle of a seemingly cold and uncaring universe, that there is just something greater that we have yet to find.

Or maybe, just maybe, such a thing is something that can't be empirically measured, but rather personally experienced.

Thank you StaryNightShade for your contrabution, it has been helpful. And I have had similar feelings about it as you do.

 

[Vinayaka]

I guess by your definition I'm a mystic too, as beyond/outside the intellect is what interests me. However, I'm no siddhar. (by my definition) The very fact we can still use 'I' and 'mine; means we're not particularly close.

At the deepest level, there isn't much to say.

In the sampradaya I study in, we don't talk about it much. Inner stuff can be shared with Guru, but that's about all. So if you're looking for a debate (you put it in same faith debates) you won't be getting one from me.

 

[mystic64]

I guess by your definition I'm a mystic too, as beyond/outside the intellect is what interests me. However, I'm no siddhar. (by my definition) The very fact we can still use 'I' and 'mine; means we're not particularly close.

At the deepest level, there isn't much to say.

In the sampradaya I study in, we don't talk about it much. Inner stuff can be shared with Guru, but that's about all. So if you're looking for a debate (you put it in same faith debates) you won't be getting one from me.

I put this topic in this forum because I didn't know where else to put it. The DIR rules say that if you are in doubt to put it here. To me there is nothing to debate unless someone wants to attempt to argue against Lord Shiva . And if they did they would be off topic . And I do understand one's relationship to their Guru and would never ask anything that is between you and your Guru or anything that is considered initiate knowledge only.

I studied the Academy website and some to the Wikipedia entrees about the church that you study under, so I do understand where you are coming from. I am not a Siddha either, but I do understand their approach and how and why it works. And their tradition is the closest that I can come to to explain some of my training. What is intesting though Vinayaka, is that I was not aware that there were those that worship Lord Shiva/Siva as the Creator and as the Supreme. To be honest with you he as that entity would make a lot of sense to me relative to my experience with him. So having that information has been valuable to me.

And how about this just for fun , "The use of "I" and "mine" and me." If you don't use I, mine, and me when you are interacting with folks from their reality, then you place yourself in a superior reality than they are. If one were to meet a true siddha one would never know that they were a siddha except that unexplained miracles seem to happen around them but those miracles would never seem to be associated with them unless one is very sensitive. Very sensitive. And then if one were very sensitive, they wouldn't say anything. They would just smile and understand.

 

[Vinayaka]

I agree with all of what you said, and am glad you went and had a look. It's a lifetime study, not some intellectual book.

We see Siva in 3 perfections ... 1)Absolute Reality beyond all form, (Parabrahman) 2) the formless underlying strata of all that exists (Sat-chit-ananda) and Primal Soul (with form, that which emanates) ... but I just go about my day, trying to observe, and be helpful, and with luck ... grow.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Shiva is my friend too. I like his careless ways and his munificence. I like the whole wonderful family, even their servants. Mother Parvati and the kids, Ganesha and Kartikeya, and Nandidwara, etc. He is a lover of mountains like I too am in a small way. Well, I am already enlightened, so to say, a 'siddha', even my father was a 'siddha'. 'Siddhas' have no questions left. Shiva helped, but I am not a mystic.

 

[Chakra]

I used to be a devotee of Shiva Parivara, and always used to see Shiva-Parvati as my parents. I too liked his carefree ways and his image as Nataraja when I was a child. I had a lot of miracles by Lord Shiva during a dark time of my life, and so he still is very dear to me and I continue to worship him even though I am not a Saiva Hindu anymore.

 

[mystic64]

I used to be a devotee of Shiva Parivara, and always used to see Shiva-Parvati as my parents. I too liked his carefree ways and his image as Nataraja when I was a child. I had a lot of miracles by Lord Shiva during a dark time of my life, and so he still is very dear to me and I continue to worship him even though I am not a Saiva Hindu anymore.

Very interesting Axlyz, He helped me through my dark days also . And with my experience with him he is always fun to be around. His presence always makes me feel happy. Like you I also worship a different God as a primary, but Lord Shiva is my really good friend, companion, and he helps me with understanding the esoteric knowledges of the ancient Hindu. And he shows me the beauty that they are as a gift to Humanity. I do not know Lord Vishnu personally and I only know Lord Shiva personally because he showed up one day to visit with me and from there we became good friends. And I have also met Lord Hanuman personally and I also love him very much and he is also a lot of fun.

 

[mystic64]

Shiva is my friend too. I like his careless ways and his munificence. I like the whole wonderful family, even their servants. Mother Parvati and the kids, Ganesha and Kartikeya, and Nandidwara, etc. He is a lover of mountains like I too am in a small way. Well, I am already enlightened, so to say, a 'siddha', even my father was a 'siddha'. 'Siddhas' have no questions left. Shiva helped, but I am not a mystic.

Awesome ! And with a father that is a siddha you wouldn't have to be a mystic . Being at one with the "Just Is". And there are no questions and things get interesting because one becomes a god/the God walking amongst mortal humanity. From there one can choose to be of service to Humanity, to do nothing/be non involved, leave and go do something else, or leave and not do anything and just be .

Aupmanyav, if that is what you are talking about, then I understand that state of being. And I think that it is generally referred to a "self realization". And some folks refer to it as "God realization". My problem is that I do not want to be God or a god . I am a sheepdog type. I would rather be in the service of some "higher source" that has a gentle humble heart and a love for Humankind. Aupanyav, I will never be able to achieve what you and your father have achieved because everytime it is offered to me I say no . I do not want to . But I do have respect for those that do.

 

[Vinayaka]

The definition of 'self-realisation' varies dramatically, as does the definition of 'enlightenment'.

In most orthodox paths, a absolute prerequisite is celibacy, which is couple with years and years of study under a qualified Satguru.

So my definition varies dramatically from Aup's. But hey, that's just life. Anyone is allowed to say whatever they want to, claim whatever they want to. Only Siva knows.

 

[mystic64]

I agree with all of what you said, and am glad you went and had a look. It's a lifetime study, not some intellectual book.

We see Siva in 3 perfections ... 1)Absolute Reality beyond all form, (Parabrahman) 2) the formless underlying strata of all that exists (Sat-chit-ananda) and Primal Soul (with form, that which emanates) ... but I just go about my day, trying to observe, and be helpful, and with luck ... grow.

"Its a life time study." Is why I will never be a guru/teacher. I do respect those that are, but when others comes to me to be their Guru, I just redefine their reality and they walk off with God as their Guru. A Guru can get one started and help one with their path, but ultimately only the "Just Is" can teach you about the "Just Is". I send them to the source and show them how it is done. From there they are off on a "life time study" and "the path is part of the experience." I suspect that most Gurus do that more or less, unless they are trying to establish a devotee following. Then they approach things differently.

I call your 1. The Primary Observer. And your 2. The Primary Observer looking through the two lenses without creating form. To me the object is to become one with the Primary Observer and from there share the Primary Observer's experience with the Primary Observer as an innocent child of the Primary Observer. "Here My beloved Child, sit here quietly and I will show you how it is done and we can do it together." But then I do not want to be God, I just want to hang out with Him/Her/It. That is what I like about Shiva, we hang out together and it is a wonderful experience. He is a God that you can hang out with. At least to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

In Saivism, there are generally two prerequisites to being a Guru as well. (Besides the obvious - some degree of 'attained' spirituality.) Self-appointed doesn't really go down well, but it may well have a place, just not in orthodox lineages.

So one requirement is to be given initiation (diksha) as a Guru by the previous Guru in the same lineage. The other is to be asked to teach by someone. Otherwise its sort of against 'the rules'.

 

[Draupadi]

So OP how does one meditate and communicate with God? Can you mention some good sources?

 

[Chakra]

Very interesting Axlyz, He helped me through my dark days also . And with my experience with him he is always fun to be around. His presence always makes me feel happy. Like you I also worship a different God as a primary, but Lord Shiva is my really good friend, companion, and he helps me with understanding the esoteric knowledges of the ancient Hindu. And he shows me the beauty that they are as a gift to Humanity. I do not know Lord Vishnu personally and I only know Lord Shiva personally because he showed up one day to visit with me and from there we became good friends. And I have also met Lord Hanuman personally and I also love him very much and he is also a lot of fun.

Ah yes, that is the relation with God that we all need! We shouldn't always see Gods as just opulent kings but rather as an affectionate friend/brother/parent. This is the pinnacle of bhakti in my opinion.

 

[Vinayaka]

Now I'm curious. For those of you on this thread who are seeing Siva as other than the Supreme God, just who then, for you, is the Supreme God?

I am thinking we may not be worshiping the same Siva. (Which is fine, but it's a different understanding.)