Why do you want to believe there is nothing wrong with Christian scripture?

[savagewind]

I think I know why you believe there is nothing wrong with it. Is it you believe God caused the writing of it?

I know I believe in God because I want to. I have no better reason. I don't believe God caused the scriptures to be without error.

Why do you?

 

[savagewind]

I have heard it said many times that to admit a scripture is wrong is to admit the whole thing then cannot be trusted.

I can't see it is a black/white problem like that.

 

[ChristineES]

I think I know why you believe there is nothing wrong with it. Is it you believe God caused the writing of it?

I know I believe in God because I want to. I have no better reason. I don't believe God caused the scriptures to be without error.

Why do you?

Certainly. When I was studying auditing, one of the things that was discussed were "material errors" and how many we could allow on financial documents.

There may be material errors that occurred when the scribes had copied the scrolls. They were very meticulous when they copied, though, so I assume that the errors are probably at a minimum. They usually copied it word for word and did not add their own interpretations, according to what I was taught, but that doesn't mean that they didn't do it. And, certainly, you never know how many errors there have been during translations, but there are so many translations to compare, I think we can get the gist of what was written.

 

[savagewind]

Certainly. When I was studying auditing, one of the things that was discussed were "material errors" and how many we could allow on financial documents.

There may be material errors that occurred when the scribes had copied the scrolls. They were very meticulous when they copied, though, so I assume that the errors are probably at a minimum. They usually copied it word for word and did not add their own interpretations, according to what I was taught, but that doesn't mean that they didn't do it. And, certainly, you never know how many errors there have been during translations, but there are so many translations to compare, I think we can get the gist of what was written.

Some good points. The errors that I believe I have found are in all the translations. In fact except for different forms of wording they are all identical which is suspect, I think.

 

[savagewind]

A fairy tale for you!

Let's say an organization, something growing like, let's say, the Jehovah's Witnesses, got a firm hold on what the Bible really says and in a thousand years repleced the one we have with the one they have. But let's say they stuck with their original mission which was to tell the truth. Add a little spice saying they swapped all the Bibles that they could for their righteous version. Of course the Library of Congress still had the antichrist version. In a thousand years most people would know a kind Jesus. Then if someone found the extremely valuable and costly versions at the Library of Congress and told you who knew a kind Jesus "Jesus isn't really kind! He says he never knew a bunch of us". What would you believe? A kind Jesus or a mean Jesus?

Would you believe the Jesus you knew or swap him for the Jesus someone told you to believe?

 

[`mud]

I could buy buying the New Testament if something in it reflected Jesus' real meaning when he supposedly said all of Paul(Saul), and Petre(Chepus) also known as Simon and then later Peter....anyway...I really would like something of what Jesus wrote in the way of scripture in his 32 or so years. It doesn't make any sense that he didn't. He was the son of his god, wasn't he ? Why wouldn't he carve one letter or mark one letter in the clay. No sense at all.
~
Without a word from Jesus, where's the value ? Believing a liars words compared to memories of the aged apostles...why my lord...that would be
something amazing !
~
'mud

 

[savagewind]

I could buy buying the New Testament if something in it reflected Jesus' real meaning when he supposedly said all of Paul(Saul), and Petre(Chepus) also known as Simon and then later Peter....anyway...I really would like something of what Jesus wrote in the way scripture in his 32 or so years. It doesn't make any sense that he didn't. He was the son of his god, wasn't he ? Why wouldn't he carve one letter or mark one letter in the clay. No sense at all.
~
Without a word from Jesus, where's the value ? Believing a liars words compared to memories of the aged apostles...why my lord...that would be
something amazing !
~
'mud

Jesus promised to send a helper to effect recall of all he taught. If the Bible was passed down as positively true and is all we need then what is the helper for?

Jesus said to worship God in spirit and truth. They worship their god by the book saying there is nothing wrong with it. A book versus the Spirit of The Truth. They obey their own opinion of what the book says but even the book they say should be obeyed says this; Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. Proverbs 3:5,6

Does it say trust in what God has said? Written? What other people say God has said? A book??????

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me John 5:39

They are searching WORDS not GOD THE SPIRIT.

Is God The Spirit in the words?

 

[ScuzManiac]

Because it's the easy way out.

People don't want to question what it says.

They just want something they can believe in and call it a day.

Thinking can be too much of a task for some people...

 

[savagewind]

Because it's the easy way out.

People don't want to question what it says.

They just want something they can believe in and call it a day.

Thinking can be too much of a task for some people...

I suspect it isn't thinking they do not want to do. They are afraid of fixing it. Believing it as is is the easy way to go. I agree. But it won't get them out of anything.

 

[savagewind]

The Bible is believed in as the only way to know The Creator God. To know it is to know God, according to some religious teachers, so it follows that the Bible has become god-like. Everyone knows it is not possible to change a god. It is gods that change people. They are not able to change it so they might as well believe it is all true.

 

[AK4]

I think I know why you believe there is nothing wrong with it. Is it you believe God caused the writing of it?

I know I believe in God because I want to. I have no better reason. I don't believe God caused the scriptures to be without error.

Why do you?

I get what you are getting at but I think you should reword that last sentence because there is a huge difference between the scriptures and bible (pick any version) verses.

God caused the scriptures to be without error, translations of those scriptures are not without error. "There is no such thing as a perfect translation"

 

[columbus]

I get what you are getting at but I think you should reword that last sentence because there is a huge difference between the scriptures and bible (pick any version) verses.

God caused the scriptures to be without error, translations of those scriptures are not without error. "There is no such thing as a perfect translation"

So what are modern English speaking people supposed to do? Figure out which of God's spokesmen are the correct spokesmen? Figure out which interpretation of the original is most accurate now?

I just decided that nobody can speak authoritatively for God. How is that wrong?

Tom

 

[AK4]

So what are modern English speaking people supposed to do? Figure out which of God's spokesmen are the correct spokesmen? Figure out which interpretation of the original is most accurate now?

I just decided that nobody can speak authoritatively for God. How is that wrong?

Tom

There are things like Strongs concordance and Vines Concise dictionary, codex sinaiticus and vaticanus (follow those two up with Professor C. Tischendorf’s notes on the readings of the two oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209) and plenty other things that can be used to see what the original words of the scriptures meant when they were penned. Some words have changed meaning over time and now don't even resemble the original scripture word penned i.e. aion/aionios and olam (now changed to mean forever and ever, eternity and the like) and gehenna and hades (changed to mean hell).

Think of it (the scriptures and bibles (multiple versions can help with understanding also) and various concordances and dictionaries) like this parable:

44"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. 45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it. Matt 13:44-46

 

[columbus]

There are things like Strongs concordance and Vines Concise dictionary, codex sinaiticus and vaticanus (follow those two up with Professor C. Tischendorf’s notes on the readings of the two oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209) and plenty other things that can be used to see what the original words of the scriptures meant when they were penned. Some words have changed meaning over time and now don't even resemble the original scripture word.....
....
....

I've got Strong's and multiple scriptures.

The question was why should I believe humans claiming to speak for God? Not which humans do you personally find credible.

I don't find anybody claiming to speak for God especially credible. They always have a personal agenda.

Tom

 

[savagewind]

I've got Strong's and multiple scriptures.

The question was why should I believe humans claiming to speak for God? Not which humans do you personally find credible.

I don't find anybody claiming to speak for God especially credible. They always have a personal agenda.

Tom

They do not always have a personal agenda. Jesus was a man without a personal agenda.

 

[savagewind]

I get what you are getting at but I think you should reword that last sentence because there is a huge difference between the scriptures and bible (pick any version) verses.

God caused the scriptures to be without error, translations of those scriptures are not without error. "There is no such thing as a perfect translation"

I believe you! The origianl writing is without error. There are no originals that have survived time, or maybe some small pieces of script have.

Translations are not without error. Yes! :bow:

 

[columbus]

They do not always have a personal agenda. Jesus was a man without a personal agenda.

You must not be a Christian.

The one thing Christians agree upon is that Jesus had an agenda. They might disagree to the point of war about what the agenda was. But no Christian thinks He didn't have one.

But I wasn't responding to Jesus. I was responding to ak4. If I ever get a message from Jesus I'll respond to Him as well.

Tom

 

[savagewind]

You must not be a Christian.

The one thing Christians agree upon is that Jesus had an agenda. They might disagree to the point of war about what the agenda was. But no Christian thinks He didn't have one.

But I wasn't responding to Jesus. I was responding to ak4. If I ever get a message from Jesus I'll respond to Him as well.

Tom

Jesus came to do The Father's will not his own will, thus no personal agenda.

Personal defined: of, affecting, or belonging to a particular person rather than to anyone else.

 

[savagewind]

It seems to me some people believe in Jesus so not to worry. If they admitted some things published in our modren Bibles are not true about Jesus, it would be something to worry about, which is what they don't want to do.

 

[`mud]

hey Savage,
It's like wishes on a memory, hoping for another tommorrow, kissing today away, and hoping that Jesus is real.
~
'mud