atheism has to face the fact that it's agnostic

[Willamena]

Yes, it's a tad redactive, redundant, and unsolvable.

It's not at all.

When I was growing up, if I said I don't believe in Sasquatch, I meant it. But lately, since at least the turn of the Century, when I say I don't believe in Sasquatch, although I still mean it, it seems it has come to mean that I might believe in Sasquatch. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think he typed atheist when he meant to type agnostic.

If you read my agnostic thread, you'd see the difference in opinion on what these terms mean...

 

[Willamena]

...but if the terminology isn't appropriate for the position...

But it is.

...then perhaps some other option is better??

Yes. Find a new word for those people who self-identify as atheists but still insist that they might believe in god.

 

[Desert Snake]

But it is.


Yes. Find a new word for those people who self-identify as atheists but still insist that they might believe in god.

It isn't me. It's the words. It's the definitions.

 

[Alceste]

Atheism, as a 'disbelief', is great, but it's also necessarily agnostic. An atheist is still in belief/disbelief choice, without knowing for sure.


every atheist is an agnostic.

cheers.

I'm not in a belief / disbelieve state without knowing for sure. I am free from any doubt that nearly all deities are part mythology, part psychological projection.

The only exception would be deities that are physical things. For example, the Ganges is a deity for many, but obviously not a psychological projection. For pantheists, God is the universe and everything in it. I can't find fault with that belief, really. They're just using a different word for universe, although perhaps they imagine sentience where I see none. (In which case I still am not agnostic. While they see sentience in the universe, I see physics and chemistry).

 

[Willamena]

It isn't me. It's the words. It's the definitions.

But of course.

 

[Alceste]

It isn't me. It's the words. It's the definitions.

Atheist: does not believe in any deities
Agnostic: believes we cannot ever know whether or not deities exist.

I am the former, I am not the latter. I do believe we can know whether specific gods are real by investigating claims of their alleged deeds on earth to determine whether supernatural intervention is a justifiable explanation. So far, it never has been.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm not in a belief / disbelieve state without knowing for sure. I am free from any doubt that nearly all deities are part mythology, part psychological projection.

The only exception would be deities that are physical things. For example, the Ganges is a deity for many, but obviously not a psychological projection. For pantheists, God is the universe and everything in it. I can't find fault with that belief, really. They're just using a different word for universe, although perhaps they imagine sentience where I see none. (In which case I still am not agnostic. While they see sentience in the universe, I see physics and chemistry).

Really? I thought you were more..open to other possibilities.

Anyways, that's fine, I like the 'general', simple', definitions, ironically it isn't me who keeps bringing up the issues with these words, it's people who use them and disagree with each other...:sarcastic

 

[Alceste]

Really? I thought you were more..open to other possibilities.

Anyways, that's fine, I like the 'general', simple', definitions, ironically it isn't me who keeps bringing up the issues with these words, it's people who use them and disagree with each other...:sarcastic

I'm a psychonaut. I am fascinated by the things our minds can do, but do not imagine we can cause supernatural beings to exist simply by believing they are there.

 

[Desert Snake]

It isn't me who has a problem with the 'simple' meanings, i'm actually attempting to clarify/simplify all three terms/

 

[viole]

Atheism, as a 'disbelief', is great, but it's also necessarily agnostic. An atheist is still in belief/disbelief choice, without knowing for sure.


every atheist is an agnostic.

cheers.

No, she isn't.

I am a gnostic atheist, for starters.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

No, she isn't.

I am a gnostic atheist, for starters.

Ciao

- viole

Are you always this pleasant?

 

[viole]

Are you always this pleasant?

Do you think that counter examples to a blanket statement are unpleasant?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Alceste]

Do you think that counter examples to a blanket statement are unpleasant?

Ciao

- viole

Yeah, that was an odd reply, since you're the fourth "gnostic atheist" to raise this point in this thread but the first to get a dismissive, ad hominem reply.

 

[Falvlun]

If someone claims to know that gods don't exist, then he's not agnostic. Doesn't matter that you think he really can't know. All that matters is what he believes himself to know.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yeah, that was an odd reply, since you're the fourth "gnostic atheist" to raise this point in this thread but the first to get a dismissive, ad hominem reply.

'gnostic atheist are two words that don't really relate to each other relationally.

it's like saying "tall, brown eyes".


descriptive, but not cohesive as one unit.

 

[Falvlun]

'gnostic atheist are two words that don't really relate to each other relationally.

it's like saying "tall, brown eyes".


descriptive, but not cohesive as one unit.

Why not? What's so incohesive about "I know that gods don't exist"?

 

[viole]

'gnostic atheist are two words that don't really relate to each other relationally.

it's like saying "tall, brown eyes".


descriptive, but not cohesive as one unit.

Of course, it is cohesive.

What is not cohesive, in your opinion?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

If someone claims to know that gods don't exist, then he's not agnostic. Doesn't matter that you think he really can't know. All that matters is what he believes himself to know.

That works for me, then we can apply that to theism. I would prefer that system actually.
a.believe/theist/
b.disbelieve/atheist/
c.don't know/agnostic/

theres no combining with that stipulation though!!

 

[viole]

That works for me, then we can apply that to theism. I would prefer that system actually.
a.believe/theist/
b.disbelieve/atheist/
c.don't know/agnostic/

Does cohesiveness correspond to what you prefer?

Ciao

- viole