Atheists View On Satanism?

[HerDotness]

Most people would term me an atheist, and I think Satanism...rather, LHP practices, are fine. Can't see why an atheist would object to Thelema either since it doesn't demand regarding the "deities" as anything but symbols. You don't have to believe any particular things about them, don't even have to believe they're anything but metaphors for states of mind if that suits you.

Some Thelemites regard the deities as actual beings, and a few I've encountered even celebrate "Crowleymas," Aleister Crowley's birthday, which I think truly silly. Whatever floats yer boat.

I'm just not a theist, and Thelema works fine for me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I kinda have more problems with religion than God, to be honest. But my understanding of Satanism is very limited. Seems more counter-cultural than anything, but I might be showing complete ignorance. In any case, it's a no from me.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I can see that. By the way, if you're not an atheist, you're not allowed to post in this directory.

EDIT: Wrong thread.

Actually, he is. DIRs are not exclusive areas. And this being a Green DIR as opposed to a Blue DIR, he can even answer here.

It is all in the rules, folks.

That said, your answer nailed it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Can't see why an atheist would object to Thelema either since it doesn't demand regarding the "deities" as anything but symbols.

I personally object to lots of religious practices, Thelema definitely included, for reasons that don't always have any relation to their belief in deities.

Let me put it this way: I am indeed an Atheist. That means that I don't believe in deities, and therefore don't find the belief in them to be much of a factor when judging religious beliefs and practices. The proof is in the pudding.



Going back to the OP, Satanism seems to be fairly varied, so I suppose I don't have an unified opinion and make my opinion on a case-by-case basis. Generally speaking it strikes me as a curiously worded attempt at fighting the excesses of some forms of Abrahamic religious practice, mainly by nurturing a sense of authonomy and personal initiative.

What it actually is, means, or how healthy it is or may fail to be, seems to depend entirely on the actual person.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I was on a pretty heavy pagan Kick before I realized Atheism. I knew several satanists and for the most part they are Atheists themselves. They empower themselves more... Unless your are talking about followers of Pan which is a deitiy.

There are about a million different things labed Satanism. It depends on what you are talking about.

Generally I see it as they see it. Its a rebellion against society. Its not all teenagers with black nailpolish. There are some legitimate teachings and covens involved. People who don't normally look the part of a satanist might be one.

 

[futilethewinds]

Satanism as I understand it has some merit (much like Sithism). It even encourages logical thought. Still, I could never bring myself to believe in God or Satan, much less worship either one of them.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Well as stated before most "satanists" don't beileve in anything. They ARE Atheists but with a twist.

 

[Simurgh]

Well as stated before most "Satanists" don't believe in anything. They ARE Atheists but with a twist.

Doesn't it seem more logical to say that someone who proclaims to believe in Satan is a Satanist rather than an Atheist? Being an Atheist I can unequivocally state that I am not also a Satanist.
I do come across ignorant people, though, who assume that being an Atheist is equivalent to believing in Satan. Apparently, too many people cannot fathom that asserting the non-existence of supernatural forces means just that—the absence of belief that there are god/desse/s.
So no, Satanists are not Atheists with a twist, since that implies that someone denies the existence of the xtian god while affirming that a negative/dark/evil counterforce of supernatural essence does exist. They affirm that they believe in something--namely Satan.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Doesn't it seem more logical to say that someone who proclaims to believe in Satan is a Satanist rather than an Atheist? Being an Atheist I can unequivocally state that I am not also a Satanist.
I do come across ignorant people, though, who assume that being an Atheist is equivalent to believing in Satan. Apparently, too many people cannot fathom that asserting the non-existence of supernatural forces means just that—the absence of belief that there are god/desse/s.
So no, Satanists are not Atheists with a twist, since that implies that someone denies the existence of the xtian god while affirming that a negative/dark/evil counterforce of supernatural essence does exist. They affirm that they believe in something--namely Satan.

Are you aware of what satanist believe or are you guessing? Most satanists I have known (and I've known quite a few) believe that they are gods. That people are gods. There is no god above us. There is no eye in the sky watching us. The idea of "satan" is the underdog, its symbolism. They don't actually believe in satan.

Satanism is NOT belief and worship of the christian devil. Though there are people who call themselves satanists that do this. The concept of satanism has been skewed and warped by people because of the theatrics of it. So you have several different religions that are called "satanism"

1) Pantheists. People who worhsip the deity pan.

2) Creepy weird people that worship the christian satan as a reverse of Christianity.

3) Real satanism which has nothing to do with either of the two above.

Its a common misconception.

 

[TheDude79]

I think that Satanism, in the literal metaphysical sense, is just as implausible as any supernatural thing is to me. As for people that call themselves Satanists but don't believe in a literal Satan and don't try to force their Satanism onto others or hurt anyone, I don't really mind it.
Really you can take the previous sentences and replace Satanism with any theistic religion and Satan with and deity, and I think that I would feel the same way.

 

[Simurgh]

Are you aware of what satanist believe or are you guessing? Most satanists I have known (and I've known quite a few) believe that they are gods. That people are gods. There is no god above us. There is no eye in the sky watching us. The idea of "satan" is the underdog, its symbolism. They don't actually believe in satan.

Satanism is NOT belief and worship of the christian devil. Though there are people who call themselves satanists that do this. The concept of satanism has been skewed and warped by people because of the theatrics of it. So you have several different religions that are called "satanism"

1) Pantheists. People who worhsip the deity pan.

2) Creepy weird people that worship the christian satan as a reverse of Christianity.

3) Real satanism which has nothing to do with either of the two above.

Its a common misconception.

How sweet of you to assume that I am ignorant about what Satanism, or for that matter, atheism is. Yes, I do know what both schools of thought are. Yes, being a Satanist does include the belief that Satan is a reality—else how can any self-respecting Satanist consider themselves to be one? So if your buds consider themselves gods, then they believe in the existence of gods. That is antithetical to being an atheist, since we do not have any such belief.

And just in case you are not aware of that Satanism-xtian connection. The concept of “Satan” is a creation of xtianity and closely intertwined with it. If it were not for xtians, there would be no Satanism. Do a bit of research into xtian history and theology and you will realize that soon enough.

Pantheism is not the worship of Pan, it is the belief that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god and therefore Satanism is not part of Satanism, since pantheism precludes the existence of an anthropomorphic divinity.

While Satanists today profess to a wide set of beliefs, they all share a core basis of philosophy strongly centered in western religious traditions. It is the invention of Satan as a tool of control and gains prominence in the Middle Ages.

So yes, Satanism is grounded in xtianity, although, the concept of fallen angel and embodiment of evil and temptation already existed in Judaism. It took the papacy a while to develop the ideology associated with Satan today.

As to your assertion that modern Satanism has nothing to do with xtianity? Take that argument up with LaVeyan Satanists and their ilk. They all may assign the qualities of Satan a positive and life affirming spin, still it is all based in the ideal of Satan as he is found in the xtian conceptualization of evil. Sure, there are probably as many forms of Satanism as there are forms of xtianity, but that does not mean that Satanism can exist outside the western religious framework.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

How sweet of you to assume that I am ignorant about what Satanism, or for that matter, atheism is. Yes, I do know what both schools of thought are. Yes, being a Satanist does include the belief that Satan is a reality—else how can any self-respecting Satanist consider themselves to be one? So if your buds consider themselves gods, then they believe in the existence of gods. That is antithetical to being an atheist, since we do not have any such belief.

And just in case you are not aware of that Satanism-xtian connection. The concept of “Satan” is a creation of xtianity and closely intertwined with it. If it were not for xtians, there would be no Satanism. Do a bit of research into xtian history and theology and you will realize that soon enough.

Pantheism is not the worship of Pan, it is the belief that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god and therefore Satanism is not part of Satanism, since pantheism precludes the existence of an anthropomorphic divinity.

While Satanists today profess to a wide set of beliefs, they all share a core basis of philosophy strongly centered in western religious traditions. It is the invention of Satan as a tool of control and gains prominence in the Middle Ages.

So yes, Satanism is grounded in xtianity, although, the concept of fallen angel and embodiment of evil and temptation already existed in Judaism. It took the papacy a while to develop the ideology associated with Satan today.

As to your assertion that modern Satanism has nothing to do with xtianity? Take that argument up with LaVeyan Satanists and their ilk. They all may assign the qualities of Satan a positive and life affirming spin, still it is all based in the ideal of Satan as he is found in the xtian conceptualization of evil. Sure, there are probably as many forms of Satanism as there are forms of xtianity, but that does not mean that Satanism can exist outside the western religious framework.

You are rather defensive. Which form of satanism specifically are you talking about? Just the Xtianity or of the anit-christian one? If you were once a satanist or perhaps did some in depth research on them then I suppose you may know more than me. I am going off of what I know from practicing satanists. They ones i know do not believe in god. Satan is a concept not a deity. The reason they even used the name "satan" was to provoke and insinuate a total rejection of Christianity and other social norms of the time. I shall look into xtian as I haven't studied it and it sounds interesting.

 

[Simurgh]

You are rather defensive. Which form of satanism specifically are you talking about? Just the Xtianity or of the anit-christian one? If you were once a satanist or perhaps did some in depth research on them then I suppose you may know more than me. I am going off of what I know from practicing satanists. They ones i know do not believe in god. Satan is a concept not a deity. The reason they even used the name "satan" was to provoke and insinuate a total rejection of Christianity and other social norms of the time. I shall look into xtian as I haven't studied it and it sounds interesting.

And what would I be defensive about? I was merely trying to be polite. But let’s not worry about that then. So, here is the unvarnished version.

You were the one who mentioned that your buddies think of themselves as gods because they profess to Satanism. Well, if they do that, then they certainly accept the fact that there is a god—namely themselves. In other words, they profess to mental self-gratification in order to stroke their egos by playing at divinity while denying that the concept of evil incarnate (themselves) is what they worship. And it really does not matter what you or they assume in regard to their solitary little cults, their concept of what Satan is and/or stands for in the end it is all built on the xtian concept of Satan. The reason Satanism is so diverse is that there are too many wanna be leaders and not sufficient followers. It's the ultimate exercise in self-aggrandizement and arrogance. Not exactly a pursuit that inspires concensus.

Maybe you all should read up on the subject of the creation of the concept “Satan”. A good and easily accessible text would be Elaine Pagels’ “The Origin of Satan”. Pagels is an authority on xtian history and writes academically sound yet still popular manner.

And no, they cannot totally reject xtianity if they accept the concept/ideal of Satan. If they were to reject it, they would not be able to accept Satan on any level either. Satan is the polar binary to the xtian god and therefore cannot stand alone. Without light we would not know what dark is. Identity theory is just one of the places where you can start looking at this issue. Then move on to structuralism for additional information. And yes, studying the theoretical, normative, and textual aspects of religions in general would be useful if you want to understand what they are. Then maybe you will understand that to equate atheism with Satanism is more than just disingenuous.

 

[Knowledge Gourmet]

I thought I was a Luciferian at one point, but I'm really just an atheist who does magick.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi, guys. This is an interesting discussion you have going here. But I noticed that many seem to be confused over what Satanism is, so maybe I can help?

There's 2 or 3 main branches of Satanism, from what I can see:

The first branch would be LaVeyan Satanism. This is the system formulated by Anton LaVey in the 1960s, most notably in the Satanic Bible and as taught and practiced by the Church of Satan, which he founded. It is an entirely materialistic philosophy based on Self-worship and carnal gratification. Officially, LaVeyan Satanists don't believe in a spiritual reality nor an afterlife. They only believe in and focus on the here and now. When it comes to atheism, I suppose they would fit the definition in that they don't believe in any external deities. They believe that all deities are the creation of humanity. They use Satan as a symbol of individualism, freedom and rebellion but don't believe in a literal Satan.

LaVeyan Satanism focuses on Nietzschean philosophy and 19th-century "might is right" Social Darwinistic ideals. LaVey also took a lot from Ayn Rand's philosophy. He even said once that his Satanism was basically Ayn Rand's philosophy with ritual thrown in.

Yes, they go practice a form of ritual magick, but they don't view it as a spiritual exercise. They view it as a psychological drama that fulfills a need that the primitive part of us has for ritual and dogma.

To learn more:
Welcome to the Church of Satan
Satanism: An interview with Church of Satan High Priest Peter Gilmore - Wikinews, the free news source

The second main branch are Symbolic or Archetypal Satanists. They basically believe that Satan is a symbol or an archetype that exists within our psyche. They may or may not be influenced by LaVeyan Satanist concepts.

The third main branch is Theistic Satanism (which is where I personally belong). These are the people who view Satan as a literal force, power or being. They may be monotheists, pantheists, duotheists or polytheists. There's no limit to how many disparate views of what/who Satan is in Theistic Satanism. It depends entirely on the prerogative of the individual. Most of us tend to identify Satan with an earlier pre-Christian deity such as Prometheus, Set, Ea, Enki, Pan, Tiamat, Leviathan, Lucifer, etc. There's even groups that link Satan to pantheistic Vedic concepts.

To learn more about Theistic Satanism:
Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists
Pantheistic Satanism: Dark Doctrines, Left Hand Path and Satanism
A pretty controversial group, but theistic nonetheless: Order of Nine Angles - The Sinister Tradition
There are also Gnostic Satanists such as the Temple of the Black Light. They are extreme Gnostics who await the destruction of the physical universe so that their souls may be freed into the realm of Pandimensional Chaos. You can learn more about them here: http://anti-cosmos.orgfree.com/download/Temple-of-The-Black-Light.pdf

General information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_Satanism

Anyway, hope that helps!

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

As an Atheist, my belief is that if god doesn't exist, neither does satan.

 

[Iti oj]

And what would I be defensive about? I was merely trying to be polite. But let’s not worry about that then. So, here is the unvarnished version.

You were the one who mentioned that your buddies think of themselves as gods because they profess to Satanism. Well, if they do that, then they certainly accept the fact that there is a god—namely themselves. In other words, they profess to mental self-gratification in order to stroke their egos by playing at divinity while denying that the concept of evil incarnate (themselves) is what they worship. And it really does not matter what you or they assume in regard to their solitary little cults, their concept of what Satan is and/or stands for in the end it is all built on the xtian concept of Satan. The reason Satanism is so diverse is that there are too many wanna be leaders and not sufficient followers. It's the ultimate exercise in self-aggrandizement and arrogance. Not exactly a pursuit that inspires concensus.

Maybe you all should read up on the subject of the creation of the concept “Satan”. A good and easily accessible text would be Elaine Pagels’ “The Origin of Satan”. Pagels is an authority on xtian history and writes academically sound yet still popular manner.

And no, they cannot totally reject xtianity if they accept the concept/ideal of Satan. If they were to reject it, they would not be able to accept Satan on any level either. Satan is the polar binary to the xtian god and therefore cannot stand alone. Without light we would not know what dark is. Identity theory is just one of the places where you can start looking at this issue. Then move on to structuralism for additional information. And yes, studying the theoretical, normative, and textual aspects of religions in general would be useful if you want to understand what they are. Then maybe you will understand that to equate atheism with Satanism is more than just disingenuous.

You sure like to explain other peoples belifes with out know a thing of what you are talking about.

 

[Simurgh]

You sure like to explain other peoples belifes with out know a thing of what you are talking about.

Read the OP again and then you will see that I merely respondet to a fallacious argument. And yes, I can point out where the problem with the assumptions presented are, since I do know what I am talking about. Anyhow, from which particular branch of satanism are you actually arguing your point, since you make assumptions about the validity of what I say? there are as many of them as there are christianities.

 

[Cephus]

I find satanism as absurd as any theistic religion.

 

[Chalant]

We look at all forms of religion in the same way.