Why the symbol of Darkness?

[NIX]

To me darkness represents limitless potential/possibility. It is the Void from which all (other) 'things' arise and 'fall'/cease to be. This is why darkness is so relevant to initiatory magic (or initiating things), and also 'destroying' things- or laying them to no'thingness (or no longer ness)

Also, what better than a dark setting/a black backdrop for the set/scene/initiation of 'disorientation' (construct breakdown)/ psychodrama?

 

[Orias]

Why do we use Darkness as a symbol? Would "Light" work as well? Could we use green (colour of Life) instead of black (colour of the Mysterion)? What of our aesthetic is essential to our practice of Magic? Individual understanding and personal belief systems I would think is part of the answer.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

Anything works. It depends where you come from.

 

[Adramelek]

Therefore darkness represents ignorance and light represents knowledge. I prefer the latter.

Darkness is the great initiator, the catalyst which inspires the Black Flame and propels and drives us towards uncovering the Mysteries that leads us into the light of knowledge. I honor both darkness and light, however, I do recognize darkness as representitive of limitless potential of knowledge and of Xeper and of Being. This is one of the many reason why I choose to honor That which I call the Prince of Darkness i.e., Set above all others, for He is the Living Manifestation of the Great Initiator.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[1137]

There is a difference between darkness and blackness. The black flame, black itself, is the absortion of all light. This is not the same as darkness, which is the absence of light.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

There is a difference between darkness and blackness. The black flame, black itself, is the absortion of all light. This is not the same as darkness, which is the absence of light.

This is perhaps your only post I've ever agreed with, though I'd suggest that the two share a deep relationship.

 

[Adramelek]

There is a difference between darkness and blackness. The black flame, black itself, is the absortion of all light. This is not the same as darkness, which is the absence of light.

Regarding the "Black Flame", it is a Satanic/Setian term coined by Michael Aquino in his early days in the Church of Satan. It is also known as the Dark Fire of Set, the Flame of Darkness, the Fire of Life, the Sacred Flame which is the very Essence of Being or psychecentric Awareness, the Essence of the Dark Prince infused within man's DNA, known to Setians as the Gift of Set. Darkness and blackness are one and the same, I see no difference, they both represent the Realm of the Mysteries. It is the Black Flame or Dark Fire of Set which Inspires the Will to Come Into Being. Remember the First Part of the Word of Set?

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Shuddhasattva]

The idea of a black flame is not a new one, and is considered to be important in Hindu tantra, (which entertain also the idea of the 'darkness' and 'the void' where the darkness is a local representative of the all-consuming void.

"Who is one with the multitude of manifestations and has destroyed all phenomenal states. Who, eternally free of arising and dissipating, is one's own true nature, the fire of time with countless rays.
-Khacakrapancastotra

Here time "kala" has the double meaning of death and black, and the context is that of the void (kha). The rays are simultaneously emitted and devoured.

 

[Adramelek]

The idea of a black flame is not a new one, and is considered to be important in Hindu tantra, (which entertain also the idea of the 'darkness' and 'the void' where the darkness is a local representative of the all-consuming void.

"Who is one with the multitude of manifestations and has destroyed all phenomenal states. Who, eternally free of arising and dissipating, is one's own true nature, the fire of time with countless rays.
-Khacakrapancastotra

Here time "kala" has the double meaning of death and black, and the context is that of the void (kha). The rays are simultaneously emitted and devoured.

Well then, Shuddhasattva, I am intrigued.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[crossfire]

The idea of a black flame is not a new one, and is considered to be important in Hindu tantra, (which entertain also the idea of the 'darkness' and 'the void' where the darkness is a local representative of the all-consuming void.

"Who is one with the multitude of manifestations and has destroyed all phenomenal states. Who, eternally free of arising and dissipating, is one's own true nature, the fire of time with countless rays.
-Khacakrapancastotra

Here time "kala" has the double meaning of death and black, and the context is that of the void (kha). The rays are simultaneously emitted and devoured.

Dang it! I knew better than to ask this question!

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Mahakala (tantric Buddhist, closely related to the Hindu idea of Shiva as Mahakala).

 

[Adramelek]

Love the artwork Shuddhasattva. I always find it fascinating how the Dark One and His Ways are expressed by different cultures.

Hail, Set! Hail, Mahakala!

May the Black Flame burn eternal.
/Adramelek\

 

[Kemble]

Love the artwork Shuddhasattva. I always find it fascinating how the Dark One and His Ways are expressed by different cultures.

Keep in mind the Buddha was a member of the warrior caste system and militant/dark iconography is a metaphoric message on awakening or overcoming delusion. It has little to do with LHP ideas as we know them.

 

[Orias]

Interesting. And what exactly does this iconography represent that doesn't cohere with any of the LHP ideas?

 

[Kemble]

Interesting. And what exactly does this iconography represent that doesn't cohere with any of the LHP ideas?

Losing the self.

 

[crossfire]

Keep in mind the Buddha was a member of the warrior caste system and militant/dark iconography is a metaphoric message on awakening or overcoming delusion. It has little to do with LHP ideas as we know them.

The western LHP ideas aren't about overcoming delusion, awakening, and transformation? I'm confused.

 

[crossfire]

Losing the self.

There is the difference in strategies between Buddhism and Western LHP: untraceability vs isolation. Untraceability does not mean nihilism--that nothing is there.

 

[Adramelek]

The western LHP ideas aren't about overcoming delusion, awakening, and transformation? I'm confused.

From a Setian point of view awakening, self-transformation, and overcoming delusion are essential aspects of Xeper = self-directed self-deification.

May the Dark Fire of Set burn eternal.
/Adramelek\

 

[crossfire]

From a Setian point of view awakening, self-transformation, and overcoming delusion are essential aspects of Xeper = self-directed self-deification.

May the Dark Fire of Set burn eternal.
/Adramelek\

That's what I thought. :yes:

 

[Willamena]

The western LHP ideas aren't about overcoming delusion, awakening, and transformation? I'm confused.

I think he's talking about middle way. Buddha is middle way.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Keep in mind the Buddha was a member of the warrior caste system and militant/dark iconography is a metaphoric message on awakening or overcoming delusion

I'm sorry, but that's a non-sequitur. It just doesn't work that way.

It has little to do with LHP ideas as we know them.

Perhaps as some might know them, but the first recorded historical instances of LHP are Buddhist & Hindu. In the Hindu Cinacara tradition, Vasistha is even held to have received the transmissions of the Vamacara from Gautuma Buddha.

Interesting. And what exactly does this iconography represent that doesn't cohere with any of the LHP ideas?

Losing the self.

Going to veto this one too. The Buddhist tantriks have a very different understanding of the world 'Self,' and as such their position is far too nuanced to be dismissed as mere self-abnegation.

The essential selfhood is very much a part of tantrik ideas, a pure self-awareness unlimbered by modification and analysis, whether called self or not (and it is, depending on the exegesis.)

Vajrakaya, pabhassara-citta, satya-atman(!), dharmadhatu, tathagatagarbha, clear light and universal void, all roughly synonymous as such.