Can Someone Put a Name to my Beliefs?

[Twilight Hue]

Next, I suspect Shunryu will be blamed.

 

[Me Myself]

Human

 

[Orontes]

I have always been interested in religion and have recently started studying world religions in college. However, for awhile now I have not been able to put a name to my beliefs and am hoping one of you can help me.
I have gravitated my beliefs towards the original teachings of the buddha. I follow my life in accordance to the 4 noble truths. I believe these to be essentially the most profound truth in existence. I believe in a rebirth, but no soul. Where as my life will end, my effect on reality and own thoughts and personality can give rise to a new existence on earth. However, I believe in no alternate reality, no magic, I solely believe in science. This makes my beliefs not classify as buddhism as we know it today, but instead relates to more of the ancient original teachings of Siddhartha himself. My belief in no god and no magic would classify myself as atheist however I see rebirth as the truth so I wouldn't consider myself an atheist. Someone shed some light on this as I want to have a name to classify my beliefs under. Thank you.

Hello,

Your views sound tinged with Theravadan Buddhist principles: both in regard to the atheism and the reincarnation without preservation of self. Note: this particular reincarnative notion is tied to the 5 skandhas of Buddhist Thought.

 

[dolphin910]

Hello,

Your views sound tinged with Theravadan Buddhist principles: both in regard to the atheism and the reincarnation without preservation of self. Note: this particular reincarnative notion is tied to the 5 skandhas of Buddhist Thought.

Reincarnation without preservation of self is the best way to put it, its just hard to describe this process with an atheistic, non magical view of the world

 

[Desert Snake]

Reincarnation without preservation of self is the best way to put it, its just hard to describe this process with an atheistic, non magical view of the world

atheist or agnostic?

 

[dolphin910]

atheist or agnostic?

Generally atheist, however I cannot be positive of no existence of god, so agnostic I guess

 

[Desert Snake]

Generally atheist, however I cannot be positive of no existence of god, so agnostic I guess

Lol actually I've changed my listing to syncretic as it leaves open more possibility to incorporate different teachings. I'm generally theistic, though.
In regards to your designation,.as was suggested though, perhaps a form of Buddhism that I'm unaware of might be the most fitting

 

[LuisDantas]

May I be blunt? Don't sweat it about being theistic or atheistic. It is a very minor point of religious practice when one is sincere and serious about his or her practice.

Yes, it sure sounds like it should change everything.

But when push comes to shove, religion is all about how to deal in this world about our connections with higher principles that we may perhaps have trouble understanding in the first place.

Whether those principles come from a Higher Will of some kind or they instead simply Make Sense in some exalted way is ultimately of only academic importance, if even that.

Not everyone agrees with me on that, of course. But I have found out that it is plenty good enough both for me and for those whose opinions I truly care about.

 

[dolphin910]

Lol actually I've changed my listing to syncretic as it leaves open more possibility to incorporate different teachings. I'm generally theistic, though.
In regards to your designation,.as was suggested though, perhaps a form of Buddhism that I'm unaware of might be the most fitting

This is why I previously stated my religion as dolphin910 buddhism.
And my question now turns to an explanation of rebirth, not believing in a god or not

 

[mayuboar]

if eggs did not have a name they would still have the same flavour, its unimportant.

 

[dolphin910]

if eggs did not have a name they would still have the same flavour, its unimportant.

Well put.
Can someone who is Buddhist themselves or knowledgeable on the subject please explain to me how The Buddha taught rebirth, with no belief in god or or any mystic nature of that sort. These ideas seem entirely contradicting yet strangely fascinating to me.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Well put.
Can someone who is Buddhist themselves or knowledgeable on the subject please explain to me how The Buddha taught rebirth, with no belief in god or or any mystic nature of that sort. These ideas seem entirely contradicting yet strangely fascinating to me.

Rebirth is a change in aggregates: mental states, physical form, beliefs, etc. "Constituents parts alone roll on. That is right discernment."

 

[mayuboar]

Well put.
Can someone who is Buddhist themselves or knowledgeable on the subject please explain to me how The Buddha taught rebirth, with no belief in god or or any mystic nature of that sort. These ideas seem entirely contradicting yet strangely fascinating to me.

sure, but first what part is contradicting, the thought of a spiritual world with no god, or something else.

 

[George-ananda]

Rebirth is a change in aggregates: mental states, physical form, beliefs, etc. "Constituents parts alone roll on. That is right discernment."

I don't think most readers (including myself) understand what you're saying in the above.

Would you please explain more slowly and simply how any of that applies to death of a physical brain and rebirth.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I don't think most readers (including myself) understand what you're saying in the above.

Would you please explain more slowly and simply how any of that applies to death of a physical brain and rebirth.

Rebirth is not reincarnation. There is no Self that jumps from body to body. It is the Self that is reborn with every breath. It evolves, it dies, it changes, struggling to cope with impermanent reality. The Self is a gestalt.

 

[George-ananda]

Rebirth is not reincarnation. There is no Self that jumps from body to body. It is the Self that is reborn with every breath. It evolves, it dies, it changes, struggling to cope with impermanent reality. The Self is a gestalt.

I'm afraid this is still not any clearer.

At physical brain death, what happens?; is there any of the evolving, changing, 'struggling to cope with impermanent reality' any more.

The original question that poster was asking was about the concept of Rebirth in Buddhism. Your answer was the Self is reborn with every breath. It begs the question what happens to the Self when there are no more breaths.

 

[George-ananda]

Well put.
Can someone who is Buddhist themselves or knowledgeable on the subject please explain to me how The Buddha taught rebirth, with no belief in god or or any mystic nature of that sort. These ideas seem entirely contradicting yet strangely fascinating to me.

To get the standard understanding I looked up Rebirth (in Buddhism) in Wikipedia and got the following:

Rebirth in Buddhism is the doctrine that the evolving consciousness (Pali: samvattanika-viññana)[1][2] or stream of consciousness (Pali: viññana-sotam,[3] Sanskrit: vijñāna-srotām, vijñāna-santāna, or citta-santāna) upon death (or "the dissolution of the aggregates" (P. khandhas, S. skandhas)), becomes one of the contributing causes for the arising of a new aggregation. The consciousness in the new person is neither identical nor entirely different from that in the deceased but the two form a causal continuum or stream.

In traditional Buddhist cosmology these lives can be in any of a large number of states of being including the human, any kind of animal and several types of supernatural being (see Six realms). Rebirth is conditioned by the karmas (actions of body, speech and mind) of previous lives; good karmas will yield a happier rebirth, bad karmas will produce one which is more unhappy. The basic cause for this is the abiding of consciousness in ignorance (Pali: avijja, Sanskrit: avidya): when ignorance is uprooted, rebirth ceases. One of the analogies used to describe what happens then is that of a ray of light that never lands.[

 

[dolphin910]

sure, but first what part is contradicting, the thought of a spiritual world with no god, or something else.

It seems contradicting that one can believe in a form of rebirth, without believing in a spiritual world beyond our own. Science would suggest that upon death, oxygen would leave your brain and your neurons would atrophy and therefore there would be no consciousness. Being scientific myself, this is truth to me. However, The Buddha did not believe in god or a spiritual world, he appealed to logic. Yet at the same time he believed in rebirth by using the candle analogy I brought up before. I just want to know how one can be rebirthed or reincarnated without believing in a separate world beyond our own or any help from a creator, that seems contradicting as science would suggest nothingness after death. I like the idea of rebirth fitting in with science, I just need someone to explain how this works exactly, as everything I have come across is like the post a few up from this... just too hard to get a mental grasp on

 

[dolphin910]

To get the standard understanding I looked up Rebirth (in Buddhism) in Wikipedia and got the following:

Rebirth in Buddhism is the doctrine that the evolving consciousness (Pali: samvattanika-viññana)[1][2] or stream of consciousness (Pali: viññana-sotam,[3] Sanskrit: vijñāna-srotām, vijñāna-santāna, or citta-santāna) upon death (or "the dissolution of the aggregates" (P. khandhas, S. skandhas)), becomes one of the contributing causes for the arising of a new aggregation. The consciousness in the new person is neither identical nor entirely different from that in the deceased but the two form a causal continuum or stream [

This wiki article is taken from the current state of buddhism, which involves mysticism and spiritual deities. I was specifically referring to the rebirth taught by The Buddha, as he can not explain it with deities and a spirit world, as the present day buddhists will.

Would this suggest that after death I will be born again and live another life, or that my actions on reality affect future lives and therefore I continue to live on after death?

 

[George-ananda]

It seems contradicting that one can believe in a form of rebirth, without believing in a spiritual world beyond our own. Science would suggest that upon death, oxygen would leave your brain and your neurons would atrophy and therefore there would be no consciousness. Being scientific myself, this is truth to me. However, The Buddha did not believe in god or a spiritual world, he appealed to logic. Yet at the same time he believed in rebirth by using the candle analogy I brought up before. I just want to know how one can be rebirthed or reincarnated without believing in a separate world beyond our own or any help from a creator, that seems contradicting as science would suggest nothingness after death. I like the idea of rebirth fitting in with science, I just need someone to explain how this works exactly, as everything I have come across is like the post a few up from this... just too hard to get a mental grasp on

I think the initial problem is there are many views of the Buddha and Buddhism out there.

The most neutral explanation I’ve heard is that Buddhism is not theistic or atheistic (in the western sense) but non-theistic. It is a practical discipline that doesn’t concern itself with that we can not learn from experience. I don't know that it’s correct to say the Buddha did/did not believe in spiritual worlds (but things like Rebirth seem to imply it).

I understand your personal Rebirth conundrum. I really think there are only two positions we can take in this conundrum. There is the standard atheist view that consciousness extinguishes at physical brain death.. Any other Rebirth (candle or no candle analogy) belief requires acceptance of spiritual/superphysical dimensions not understood yet by science. .