Final attempt to reach my former comrades

[JayJayDee]

There is no injustice to let go of. And there is nothing killing me either, is there?

Physically no. But it is obvious that some kind of injustice took place because it seems to haunt you.

It was not something that happened. It was many things for many years that I observed.

There was one thing that happened to me but I do not feel free to share. And it is a long story. Anyway, the last thing I heard about it was from a friend. She said the elder brother in charge confessed to her that the case was handled badly. At the time I thought so too.

You know the "he said, she said" thing is one side of a story. And what kind of person hangs onto "friends" that are bad mouthing Christ's brothers?
I am getting a picture and it isn't nice.

If you have ever attended a court session and observed how "hear-say" is not admissible as evidence, then you will know that one side never tells the whole story. You are the innocent victim in your own eyes. But your side is not the only one. A judge needs both sides, and I am not a judge, nor do I wish to be.

Now please tell me this-should not the brother apologize to me in harmony with the admonition to "seek peace and pursue it"? Or is making converts the prime objective and for peace we must wait for paradise to be here?

I guess that has a lot to do with your own conduct before and after the event. We are not privy to any information concerning any of it. It's too easy to paint people as the bad guys when you only see yourself as the good one. What does God see?

Justification is the fuel for explosions and all manner of unpleasant things. It certainly is not the fuel of peace.

It seems the elder brother felt bad about what he had done to me, but he has never tried to make peace with me. Why does the Holy Spirit not direct him to make peace?

Perhaps there is something in your heart that prevents God's spirit from motivating him to offer it. Only God knows what really happened, and no one can rely on one side of a story to make a fair judgment.

It is human nature to blame everyone but ourselves. I include myself in that judgment.

 

[savagewind]

I guess that has a lot to do with your own conduct before and after the event. We are not privy to any information concerning any of it. It's too easy to paint people as the bad guys when you only see yourself as the good one. What does God see?

I'm not talking about who was right or wrong. I am sure I NEVER saw myself as "the good one". Where did you get that idea?

I said he recognized he had failed me. But he did not tell me. He told my friend who is quite persuasive I guess. Do you think the JW sister lied to me? That he did not say that? I never assume first someone is lying.

What does God see?

I sure do hope this is a rhetorical question. I have to assume it is. No one can see what God sees. Of that I am sure.

 

[Lady B]

Nancy, I think you are in good council, and you are being shown love, please take heed and don't dismiss easily what God may be showing you here....hugs

 

[savagewind]

Nancy, I think you are in good council, and you are being shown love, please take heed and don't dismiss easily what God may be showing you here....hugs

I can not dismiss it if I do not know what it is. What is it?

I should admit I was wrong? Is that it? Am I wrong about everything?

I do not believe I am wrong about what the brother told my friend. Is that what I am suppose to admit I am wrong about? I shall meet you ladies half way and say my friend might be wrong about what she thought she heard. Peace?

 

[Pegg]

All i can say is that leaving Jehovah because you had a falling out with an imperfect human is the equivalent of a wife leaving her husband because one of the kids poked their tongue out at her.

The husband just wants to know what he did to deserve that sort of treatment.

 

[savagewind]

All i can say is that leaving Jehovah because you had a falling out with an imperfect human is the equivalent of a wife leaving her husband because one of the kids poked their tongue out at her.

The husband just wants to know what he did to deserve that sort of treatment.

Well that is true. But that is not what happened.
My first evidence that I observed had NOTHING to do with me. It is the order all Jehovah's Witnesses have of timing their evangelizing. I believe it is counter productive and do not believe the order to do it is from Heaven.

You might say it was difficult for me to compete therefore I learned to hate it. I never felt bad about it personally. I think some people do. Do you?

 

[savagewind]

I guess some people did not read the first post. Oh well.

 

[Pegg]

Well that is true. But that is not what happened.
My first evidence that I observed had NOTHING to do with me. It is the order all Jehovah's Witnesses have of timing their evangelizing. I believe it is counter productive and do not believe the order to do it is from Heaven.

You might say it was difficult for me to compete therefore I learned to hate it. I never felt bad about it personally. I think some people do. Do you?

some brothers report 1 hour of service for the month. Its not a competition.

 

[JayJayDee]

Well that is true. But that is not what happened.
My first evidence that I observed had NOTHING to do with me. It is the order all Jehovah's Witnesses have of timing their evangelizing. I believe it is counter productive and do not believe the order to do it is from Heaven.

You might say it was difficult for me to compete therefore I learned to hate it. I never felt bad about it personally. I think some people do. Do you?

When we are asked to report our evangelizing activity, it is a good gauge of our spiritual health. It is not a competition as Pegg has said. When someone is spiritually sick, usually the first thing to go is prayer (not obvious to our spiritual shepherds) but the second indication is our field ministry. When that begins to taper off, it is a fair indicator that someone needs some spiritual assistance.

Our Christianity instills in us a desire to share the good news with all who will listen...this is an indicator our vibrant spiritual health and the operation of Jehovah's spirit. When it begins to wain, it means that our spiritual health is in danger.

The next thing to go is our Christian meetings and association with with our spiritual family.
The shepherds in the congregation are "keeping watch over our souls" and they will "render an account" for any failure on their part to offer counsel and scriptural encouragement.

For those who are becoming disgruntled with the way things are done in the congregation, it usually indicates a heart that is straying from the flock. Rules apply so that all are left in no doubt as to what is expected of them. No one can be happy in the congregation if they are just sitting there picking faults with procedure or in the brothers or in the way we are admonished to conduct ourselves. If that is causing a chafing, then something is already wrong. Jehovah knows it....and he has read the heart that is causing the problem.

Should the brothers have made alternative arrangements just to accommodate your sensibilities? Sorry, but you either remain in the congregation and do your part to keep the peace and unity, working in harmony with it....or you take issue with the way things are done and leave. There is nothing in between. It's all about choices.
If you leave, you will lose the spiritual fellowship of those to whom you have now become an unhealthy associate. Unhealthy because spiritual ill health can be contagious. Just as satan did with Eve, seeds of doubt can undermine a person's confidence in God's ability to guide his people. (1 Cor 15:33; 2 John 9-11)

If you wish to return to Jehovah, the door is always open, but you must follow the direction of the shepherds and demonstrate that you can be a humble and productive member of the congregation, not one spreading discord or disharmony. It is not good to come to the meetings and whine about what you think is wrong. This shows no love for God or the brotherhood.

One extra thing about reporting our ministry...it all goes into our Yearbook. We can see that our brothers all over the world are fulfilling their obligations to Christ as evangelizers despite many hardships and difficulties. It is so encouraging to us who have it relatively easy for now. We are filled with admiration for their determination and courage in the midst of many hardships.

It is sobering to realize that the judgment with which we judge others is the one God will use on us. The unforgiving will be unforgiven.

 

[oldbadger]

I was only just getting to 'know' you! I'm sad that you want to go, because I enjoyed your posts.

I have not read all these posts, but did see lots of mention about evangelising. A very wise old man once listened to all my excited news (I had found a faith) and then told me that I was never to tell another person about it! He said that I must live the life I had found, perfectly, but could not speak of it unless somebody came up to me and said, 'I am impressed with the way you live. What is your secret?'. Then I would be able to speak of it.

I did my best to live that faith..... for seven years. Guess how many people asked me about my faith? ........ none! I guess I just did not breath it ell enough!

Anyway....... I hope you either 'don't go' or 'do come back'. All the very very best.

 

[savagewind]

I was only just getting to 'know' you! I'm sad that you want to go, because I enjoyed your posts.

I have not read all these posts, but did see lots of mention about evangelising. A very wise old man once listened to all my excited news (I had found a faith) and then told me that I was never to tell another person about it! He said that I must live the life I had found, perfectly, but could not speak of it unless somebody came up to me and said, 'I am impressed with the way you live. What is your secret?'. Then I would be able to speak of it.

I did my best to live that faith..... for seven years. Guess how many people asked me about my faith? ........ none! I guess I just did not breath it ell enough!

Anyway....... I hope you either 'don't go' or 'do come back'. All the very very best.

You breathed it well enough. You do not know if anyone caused his own life to be redirected because of your conduct. I have found modern people do not usually recognize their immediate surroundings. Many people are living for the next hour, day, year, or even for the next life or for paradise. 'Jesus' did not do that way, did he? He was always conscious of the moment and who was present and how they might be helped. It was not all preaching he did was it? I think our job is to redirect souls. Christ's job was to redirect a world.

Now these people who say I need their help have said I am spiritual sick. (Someone will say""I did not say "you are spiritual sick" "and that is correct, it was personally applied to me though). Also that I will not be forgiven. (I will go back to highlight where I read these things). Also that I am keeping a grudge. It is also implied that I expect perfection in others. That I do not listen to council. I heard that spiritual health is gauged by how many hours I preach (as is available to me personally). I am accused of waning Christianity and a lack of preaching the good news. I am not preaching? You may vote . And that I wish for special consideration in the congregation. I wish for God's will to be done. Man's will is not God's will.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord Lord did we not prophesy in your name and perform many powerful works in your name? And yet then I will confess to them I never knew you....

What I heard and I know from my comrades is I will only be saved by God if I go back to my place in the machine and become a well oiled part of it again. It is like a machine. If kindness could be ranked I wonder how many witnesses can honestly say they experience kindness each time they are with the witnesses. Some people will say no not usually but it is my own fault. Other people will say no, but witnesses are the busiest people on Earth. Just like every gathering of people there is kindness. Is there so much kindness it becomes obvious The Holy Spirit is present? Is there so much love present that people cannot resist being there at every opportunity? At every Kingdom Hall that I know there are no publishers out after noon. There are pioneers indeed. Why? You know the answer. So I have become a part of the machine that is popped off. How is the machine still working? 1 Corinthians 12: 14-18

Now the body is not made up of one part but of many If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as HE WANTS them to be.

I hear Jehovah's Witnesses saying they know what God wants.
To know what anybody wants is to be that person. Can we agree on that?
although he was existing in God's form gave no consideration to a seizure namely, that he should be equal to God. Philippians 2:6

 

[savagewind]

When we are asked to report our evangelizing activity, it is a good gauge of our spiritual health. It is not a competition as Pegg has said. When someone is spiritually sick, usually the first thing to go is prayer (not obvious to our spiritual shepherds) but the second indication is our field ministry. When that begins to taper off, it is a fair indicator that someone needs some spiritual assistance.

Our Christianity instills in us a desire to share the good news with all who will listen...this is an indicator our vibrant spiritual health and the operation of Jehovah's spirit. When it begins to wain, it means that our spiritual health is in danger.

The next thing to go is our Christian meetings and association with with our spiritual family.
The shepherds in the congregation are "keeping watch over our souls" and they will "render an account" for any failure on their part to offer counsel and scriptural encouragement.

For those who are becoming disgruntled with the way things are done in the congregation, it usually indicates a heart that is straying from the flock. Rules apply so that all are left in no doubt as to what is expected of them. No one can be happy in the congregation if they are just sitting there picking faults with procedure or in the brothers or in the way we are admonished to conduct ourselves. If that is causing a chafing, then something is already wrong. Jehovah knows it....and he has read the heart that is causing the problem.

Should the brothers have made alternative arrangements just to accommodate your sensibilities? Sorry, but you either remain in the congregation and do your part to keep the peace and unity, working in harmony with it....or you take issue with the way things are done and leave. There is nothing in between. It's all about choices.
If you leave, you will lose the spiritual fellowship of those to whom you have now become an unhealthy associate. Unhealthy because spiritual ill health can be contagious. Just as satan did with Eve, seeds of doubt can undermine a person's confidence in God's ability to guide his people. (1 Cor 15:33; 2 John 9-11)

If you wish to return to Jehovah, the door is always open, but you must follow the direction of the shepherds and demonstrate that you can be a humble and productive member of the congregation, not one spreading discord or disharmony. It is not good to come to the meetings and whine about what you think is wrong. This shows no love for God or the brotherhood.

One extra thing about reporting our ministry...it all goes into our Yearbook. We can see that our brothers all over the world are fulfilling their obligations to Christ as evangelizers despite many hardships and difficulties. It is so encouraging to us who have it relatively easy for now. We are filled with admiration for their determination and courage in the midst of many hardships.

It is sobering to realize that the judgment with which we judge others is the one God will use on us. The unforgiving will be unforgiven.

It is posted to me so even though you are speaking in generalities I hear you and accept your opinion of me.

 

[savagewind]

I just want to say another word about 1 Corinthians 12. It is not me saying you are not part of the body and that I do not need you. It is you saying it about me.

If you wish to return to Jehovah, the door is always open, but you must follow the direction of the shepherds and demonstrate that you can be a humble and productive member of the congregation,

Jehovah knows it....and he has read the heart that is causing the problem.

I never have assumed you are not "for Jehovah". But you are assuming it about me.

 

[savagewind]

What I am hearing from Pegg and JayJay is to be considered a good, strong Christian one must be in agreement with all faithful Christians who are finding refuge in the modern day congregation of the disciples of Jesus, he who has given the faithful and discreet slave oversight of all The Master's belongings. So to obey the good news of Jesus is to obey the Governing Body (about everything).

But I see a huge discrepancy here. I know of many Jehovah's Witnesses who take the command to "get out of Babylon the Great" so seriously that they fear going into a church even for a wedding. (or a flee market or a club meeting). I have even heard it said that if a soul is present in a place of worship when Armageddon arrives they might be found unfaithful and lose their souls. I understand it means they are being extra careful and there is nothing wrong with that usually.

But this place called Religious Education Forums is a place that can be considered Babylonyish I think. From my own point of view it is a near perfect model of Universalism. And it runs quite well I see.

And I even do not call those witnesses present disobedient, rebellious, or misguided for being here. It is very nice to have you present I think.

The problem is you are not one mind in agreement with the others who are not present. I would have liked to enter churches when I was a witness but to teach it is not right but to do it is wrong.

You might say you are not here in the flesh so it does not matter. What about these?-

For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Galatians 6:8

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna Matthew 10:28

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks John 4:23

When I was a witness I heard it is dangerous to do what you are doing and that you should not do it. Why do you do it? If it is righteous for you to preach that way on forum, why is it not all right for everyone?

You seem to be in disagreement with a rule. But you keep saying I am wrong for disagreeing a rule. Please, explain the discrepancy.

 

[Lady B]

What I am hearing from Pegg and JayJay is to be considered a good, strong Christian one must be in agreement with all faithful Christians who are finding refuge in the modern day congregation of the disciples of Jesus, he who has given the faithful and discreet slave oversight of all The Master's belongings. So to obey the good news of Jesus is to obey the Governing Body (about everything).

But I see a huge discrepancy here. I know of many Jehovah's Witnesses who take the command to "get out of Babylon the Great" so seriously that they fear going into a church even for a wedding. (or a flee market or a club meeting). I have even heard it said that if a soul is present in a place of worship when Armageddon arrives they might be found unfaithful and lose their souls. I understand it means they are being extra careful and there is nothing wrong with that usually.

But this place called Religious Education Forums is a place that can be considered Babylonyish I think. From my own point of view it is a near perfect model of Universalism. And it runs quite well I see.

And I even do not call those witnesses present disobedient, rebellious, or misguided for being here. It is very nice to have you present I think.

The problem is you are not one mind in agreement with the others who are not present. I would have liked to enter churches when I was a witness but to teach it is not right but to do it is wrong.

You might say you are not here in the flesh so it does not matter. What about these?-

For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Galatians 6:8

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna Matthew 10:28

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks John 4:23

When I was a witness I heard it is dangerous to do what you are doing and that you should not do it. Why do you do it? If it is righteous for you to preach that way on forum, why is it not all right for everyone?

You seem to be in disagreement with a rule. But you keep saying I am wrong for disagreeing a rule. Please, explain the discrepancy.

Nancy, I think you make perfect sense even though I am not sure where all this stems from, I get the jist now, :hug:

 

[savagewind]

Nancy, I think you make perfect sense even though I am not sure where all this stems from, I get the jist now, :hug:

You just made my day Lady B! : hamster :

They have me scared out of my pants :run: that I am making no sense at all. I was not shooting for perfect. LOL It is a nice compliment. Thank you

 

[oldbadger]

Thanks for your reply, SavageWind.

I only know two 'Witnesses', Husband and Wife. Parking around here is impossible, and one day twenty years ago I told them that they could always park on my drive, anytime. We have had many coffees and discussions since then. I like them. More..... I love them like family. I trust them.

But I could never be a witness. They must know that by now, but maybe they feel that friends from all corners have value? I can't be in any sort of Christian Church or Creed, because decades ago I read about ........ just........ Jesus..... What he is reported to have said and done. Nothing else. No Paul..... No Bishops or Popes...... No Councils. Just Jesus.

And it's simple. Living in this moment..... the cutting edge of time. I sometimes think, 'What would Jesus do... here, or in this situation. Or what would He say? Or what would He advise?' And what he says is often quite different to what I hear from Churches and ministries.

I don't know why you are beating yourself up. If a ministry is not right for you, just now, just wherever you are........ go to where you feel right. You won't go to hell for not belonging to this creed, or that creed. Blimey...... if that was true then 'hell' would be full of christians from every corner, because they were protestant, or catholic or methodist or.......... oh..... what rot!

You mention prayer. I never pray. I think about God. That's what I do, and I enjoy my part-time job, carried out in the spirit of providing a service to the local community. I don't understand words like prayer, meditation, devotion...... I can think about God while I drive the old van, or cycle, or.... anything. And I don't think other people need saving, anymore than the sparrows in our garden. I write too much!

 

[savagewind]

I can think about God while I drive the old van, or cycle, or.... anything. And I don't think other people need saving, anymore than the sparrows in our garden. I write too much!

No, not too much mush.

As it should be oldbadger, as it should be

Thus the title of the thread. "My last attempt". If I can get just one Jehovah's Witness to see he or she does some of the same type things their doctrine condemns I will consider my effort worthwhile. The Watchtower religion is an organization that judges. It is so obvious just on this one worthless thread. I am not beating myself up. I enjoy my occupation most of the time.

A prophet's job is interesting to say the very least. Am I calling myself a prophet? I guess that is what I do.

I agree with you about the sparrow. I think it is an excellent point of view.

I also do very little "Dear God...." prayers. My prayer every day, all day is to align my spirit with The Holy Spirit for the will of God to do. It takes a lot of practice. I am still practicing.

 

[oldbadger]

You write well.

Tell you what, though...... it's not JWs, or Lutherans, or Baptists, or Catholics. It's the whole group of churches, ministries, and all........ who do seem ..... quite as lost as me. The big difference being that I know I am lost in the chaos of existence, whilst they seem to feel that they (alone! Just their group) is fine and dandy, the only holy...... God's chosen path. Dear oh dear......

Yes....... you probably are a prophet, but if so, nobody will attend to you till after you are gone....... so stay....... and write some more.

I always wanted to have a good argument with you when we were both drunk. Now that would have been useful! But dear Mrs Badger limits me to these unit thingies now, and I don't go blotters anymore cos of that. Omar Khayyam just does not get a fair hearing, I reckon!

 

[JayJayDee]

Just for the record......

What I am hearing from Pegg and JayJay is to be considered a good, strong Christian one must be in agreement with all faithful Christians who are finding refuge in the modern day congregation of the disciples of Jesus, he who has given the faithful and discreet slave oversight of all The Master's belongings. So to obey the good news of Jesus is to obey the Governing Body (about everything).

If you do not accept the Governing Body as the 'faithful slave', behaving as Christ's Brothers are supposed to, then don't. No one is standing there with a big stick forcing you to do anything. If they don't fit your definition or criteria, then go your way in confidence.
All I see is someone who wants their cake and eat it too. It all has to be your way or no way. So let it be. Go find Christ's brothers somewhere else.....

But I see a huge discrepancy here. I know of many Jehovah's Witnesses who take the command to "get out of Babylon the Great" so seriously that they fear going into a church even for a wedding. (or a flee market or a club meeting). I have even heard it said that if a soul is present in a place of worship when Armageddon arrives they might be found unfaithful and lose their souls. I understand it means they are being extra careful and there is nothing wrong with that usually.

That is soooo ridiculous on so many levels. Babylon the great is not a building. It is an organization created by the devil to ensnare the majority of mankind by creating religious persuasions of all descriptions to cater to all tastes. The heart's desire is found in one of them...guaranteed. Even atheism is a form of religion. We are called OUT of that system. Going into a building or a flea market is hardly being IN Babylon the great. Good grief!

I have no problem attending a wedding in a church and have done so throughout my 40 years as a Witness if it was a friend of the family or relative who was not a Witness, I have no issue. I do not participate in the ceremony and am there as a respectful observer of a marriage that is recognized by God. You twist things to serve your own views. To pass those twisted views on to others is disgusting to me. You are clearly an apostate, which says a lot for your "friend".

But this place called Religious Education Forums is a place that can be considered Babylonyish I think. From my own point of view it is a near perfect model of Universalism. And it runs quite well I see.

From your 'own point of view', everything seems to be skewed your own way of thinking. That is entirely your privilege. The apostles preached in synagogues did they not? People of all faiths are found in their homes when we call on them....so? Does that mean we are not to witness to them? All are free to make up their own minds. We have a message and we deliver that message personally in our own time and at our own expense. (Matt 24:14; 28:19, 20) That is what obedience to Christ's command means to us. That is a demonstration of what it means to love God and our neighbors. That message is life saving to those who respond to it.

And I even do not call those witnesses present disobedient, rebellious, or misguided for being here. It is very nice to have you present I think.

I think you just did. :sarcastic

The problem is you are not one mind in agreement with the others who are not present. I would have liked to enter churches when I was a witness but to teach it is not right but to do it is wrong.

Sorry? What on earth was that supposed to mean? You wanted to enter churches when you were a Witness? Why? Were you raised as a JW but never really believed it? Do you think the churches are on the right track? I was in those churches and believe me, they had nothing to offer someone who is spiritually hungry for the truth.
I asked all the hard questions and got NO answers from God's word...only from their 'theology'. (2 Tim 3:12, 13) Jehovah's Witnesses took the time to teach me what God's word says and answered all the hard questions from the Bible...ones that you still seem to be asking.

When I was a witness I heard it is dangerous to do what you are doing and that you should not do it. Why do you do it? If it is righteous for you to preach that way on forum, why is it not all right for everyone?

Safeguards are now in place that were not available to us before. The internet is a place that satan has dominated in many ways but not anymore. jw.org is online now and proving to be very successful. This is how people glean their information these days. So why would we shy away?

You seem to be in disagreement with a rule. But you keep saying I am wrong for disagreeing a rule. Please, explain the discrepancy.

There are only discrepancies if you want to find them. God will let you. (2 Thess 2:9-12)

I will not respond to you any further but I will respond to lies or twisted half truths if they are posted.

Time will reveal all.