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What Is Your Opinion On Marijuana?
- Thread starter Pozessed
- Start date
Levite
Higher and Higher
There is little appreciable difference between ages 18 (when we say people can smoke tobacco, and most of the rest of the civilized world says they can drink alcohol) and 16; and there have been some persuasive studies that alcohol prohibition encourages binge drinking in underage drinkers. I support lowering the drinking age and establishing a similar marijuana age in order to prevent binge indulgence. Normalizing alcohol and marijuana, and taking away the lure of "forbidden fruit" is, IMO, more likely to deter widespread overindulgence than draconian stringency.
You know, the best argument for marijuana decriminalization is that some individuals use it for recreational use. Forget the medicinal angle, etc. Just cut right to the chase. We should be able to use it if we choose as a part of our individual liberty. Does anyone else remember individual freedom?
I saw a bumper sticker on the back of a pickup truck with an American Flag and above it read, "Safety first!" Isn't it suppose to be Freedom First? Strange, but it does make sense from the perspective of those who really wish for a fascist government. Safety is an illusion as that **** head has a greater chance of being killed in his pickup than he does from "terrorism". Not to insult pickup trucks as they are a really useful form of transportation, especially when you need to paint an entire house, but I digress.
My point is that we have become afraid of our own freedom in this country. Admittedly, the notion of freedom is still limited when it doesn't properly included the collective whole. The individual is codependent upon the collective liberty, whether they accept it or not. Nevertheless, so-called "free" individuals have run away from the light like cowardly dogs with their tails between their legs. I am quite ****** at all these cowardly ******** in my own country, but again I digress.
We should have the right to use marijuana for recreational, medicinal, and religious use as much as we please. Currently, there are laws against it, but does it stop individuals from actually using it? No. The more laws there are, the more criminals they create. Don't believe me? Pay attention to what's actually going on. People are still using it. So you've created more laws to "control" it? Yet it still happens more often than before. This sounds more like the illusion of control. What good is an illusion after it falters?
I saw a bumper sticker on the back of a pickup truck with an American Flag and above it read, "Safety first!" Isn't it suppose to be Freedom First? Strange, but it does make sense from the perspective of those who really wish for a fascist government. Safety is an illusion as that **** head has a greater chance of being killed in his pickup than he does from "terrorism". Not to insult pickup trucks as they are a really useful form of transportation, especially when you need to paint an entire house, but I digress.
My point is that we have become afraid of our own freedom in this country. Admittedly, the notion of freedom is still limited when it doesn't properly included the collective whole. The individual is codependent upon the collective liberty, whether they accept it or not. Nevertheless, so-called "free" individuals have run away from the light like cowardly dogs with their tails between their legs. I am quite ****** at all these cowardly ******** in my own country, but again I digress.
We should have the right to use marijuana for recreational, medicinal, and religious use as much as we please. Currently, there are laws against it, but does it stop individuals from actually using it? No. The more laws there are, the more criminals they create. Don't believe me? Pay attention to what's actually going on. People are still using it. So you've created more laws to "control" it? Yet it still happens more often than before. This sounds more like the illusion of control. What good is an illusion after it falters?
That is indeed the question, when it comes to drugs such as alcohol and cannabis. I truly wonder how come there are any people who value the freedom to use recreational drugs over the safety from them.
Far as I can tell, that is just one step away from regulation of the right for suicide.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
It is amazing to me that in America, 18-year-olds are sent off to wars to die, but they can't smoke or drink while doing that.
Also, about marijuana, legalize it for recreational use already! Tax it, and wean away resources from the war on drugs. It would bring in huge amounts of revenue. There are studies on it somewhere, I'm sure.
Also, about marijuana, legalize it for recreational use already! Tax it, and wean away resources from the war on drugs. It would bring in huge amounts of revenue. There are studies on it somewhere, I'm sure.
Well, at one time, it was the right of individuals to commit suicide if it was deemed that they had no lesser escape from their pain, but I digress.
I actually do think that you've made some good points against the use of any drugs. Even cannabis is not entirely safe, although I do maintain that it can still be used beneficially within certain restrictions. Full-time use can be detrimental. It was originally utilized within a ritualistic setting and it still serves the most utility when re-incorporated into default experience after a specific spiritual use. No doubt, this is not how it is normally utilized, but that could be changed if it were considered legit in society.
I understand, in part, that you have no sympathy towards drug use whatsoever. I respect that, even if I do not fully agree with it. So let me take a different angle in order to better understand your position. Do you feel that laws actually control the use of cannabis?
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Thanks. As a rule, I don't like to rely on laws (yes, I can see the irony). They have inherent shortcomings that basically mean that nothing particularly useful results from them.
In this particular case... let's see. It depends considerably from cultural factors, and it is very clear that the law is powerless to stop the use of recreational cannabis.
Still, having the laws in place does still send a message. For some people it is "cannabis is dangerous", for others it will be "cannabis must be kept in secret" or even "cannabis is cool because it involves fooling the police". I can see that in this sense some people will seek it just out of a sense of attraction for the forbidden. On the other hand, legalizing it is essentially stating that it is harmless and no one should fear experimenting, which I happen to feel to be the entirely wrong message to pass.
Cannabis, much like any other recreational drug, has its use spread mainly by social pressure. People who feel weak or inadequate use drugs in order to blend in the pack or to feel empowered. I personally have no doubt that even the controversy about legalizing it does in fact make its use that much more widespread. The very announcement that it may eventually be legalized will no doubt create lots of new users, even before any laws actually take force.
So, no, I don't think the laws control the use of Cannabis. They lack that power. Laws that legitimize it will however succeed in multiplying the number of users, in a way that can not be reversed by a mere reversion of the law itself.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
My initial response is to be for the legalization of marijuana, however after getting some other opinions I would be hesitant to take that stance now. Something to consider, we would have to come up with things like "marijuana driving laws etc., and the fact that marijuana has a much longer effect than alcohol for instance creates a whole new batch of problems.
So, at this point, I'd say no to the legalization of marijuana.
Cheers.
So, at this point, I'd say no to the legalization of marijuana.
Cheers.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
That is irrational hysteria.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
Gee, it must have been something that I used.
Possibly, if you had a bad reaction to it ...
But seriously, although I respect that you have an anti-drug stance for whatever reason, suggesting that legalising marijuana is "just one step away from regulation of the right for suicide" is a bit extreme.
Marijuana does not cause significant harm to the vast majority of its users. It has been widely used by different cultures for millenia. It is widely used in the west too, and by a total cross section of the population. Responsible professionals who hold demanding jobs and live productive lives enjoy marijuana without it causing any health or social problems. I have known psychologists and psychiatrists who enjoy using it. I studied with a lama who enjoyed it from time to time. Countless professional musicians and other artists use it routinely. Indian saddhus use it routinely.
In terms of health issues, soda drinks and fast food are a way more serious and deadly problem than marijuana could ever be. I wonder, do you feel that fast food is immoral and should be totally banned ? I would find that less extreme and more supportable based on empirical evidence.
Just about the biggest single health issue in the western world right now is overeating. Obesity is now a (the ?) leading cause of death, overtaking heart disease and dwarfing drug-related deaths. Nations are facing economic disaster as a result of the growing diabetes epidemic. Do you feel a correspondingly greater aversion to bad food habits than you do to drug use ?
If not, then perhaps you need to look at that.
Deadly, perhaps. But how mentally dangerous? I happen to value mental health considerably, and lending legitimacy to recreational Cannabis is something that I just can't condone for that reason.
Show me the evidence that it has psychoative effects and we will talk.
If you say so.
No. Not sure why you expect me to.
Why exactly?
Interestingly, while the normal drinking age is 19 in most of Canada, the drinking age at pubs on Canadian Forces bases is 18 for service members. If you're entrusted with deadly weapons to protect your country, you can have a beer when you're off duty.
Mathematician
Reason, and reason again
Drugs are a boogeyman. You will never escape the effects of mind-altering substances. Food is, in effect, a drug, notwithstanding actual consumable drugs like caffeine, chocolate, and sugar.
Most people use recreational drugs responsibly - even hard substances like heroin and methamphetamine.
Luckily with marijuana even if you do act like an idiot, the risk of hurting yourself or others is insignificant compared to alcohol.
Most people use recreational drugs responsibly - even hard substances like heroin and methamphetamine.
Luckily with marijuana even if you do act like an idiot, the risk of hurting yourself or others is insignificant compared to alcohol.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
Additives in junk food are related to hyperactivity in children. Obesity causes depression which can even be suicidal.
So there is more evidence that junk food is mentally dangerous than that marijuana is.
Also, you ignored my very accurate and pertinent remark that marijuana is widely used by people who hold demanding professional jobs, and positions with prestige, and they are not suffering mental illness or incapacity. I've met more than I could remember.
Why do you assume that it is a mental health problem ? I have known thousands of cannabis users over a lifetime, and only people with pre-existing mental instability ever had any problem with it .
What are your sources of information ? Or do you just assume it is a mental health problem because you have a moral objection to it which is actually simply a personal prejudice ?
Show me the evidence that it is the devil's weed from hell or stop making crazy unsubstantiated claims.
Wow, rigorous thinking and impeccable argument (not)
Because you are adopting a position of concern for public safety to justify your disinformation and unsubstantiated claims about marijuana, yet you express no concern about genuine public health problems.
That makes your high moral ground look suspect. Perhaps your concern for public safety is really just a pretext for an unsupportable personal prejudice. I wonder if you have really looked at the facts. Actually, I don't need to wonder. I know from experience over the last 40 years that your opinions are extreme and not supported by the actual experience of millions of people.
On the long run, maybe. But surely you don't expect to convince me with that?
Uh, yes I did. It was not meant to be taken as more than an illustration, was it? Because I fear "most people have no problem with it" just doesn't cut it as an argument.
What do you mean with "assume" here?
My point exactly, unless that translates into "none".
I personally know people who have died in part due to Cannabis abuse. But, again, I am not particularly concerned with death. Mental damage is plenty enough to justify boycotting Cannabis.
Because...?
Sorry, but it seems that you mistook me for someone else for a moment.
Let's try again from the beginning.
Now, why do you expect me to ignore the dangers of Cannabis again?
apophenia
Well-Known Member
OK, you've made your position totally clear.
You have no rational argument, no evidence of the dangers you suggest, an extreme personal phobia about marijuana, a determination to avoid actual debate, and the use of glib remarks to avoid or dismiss rational objections to your position.
With a mindset like that, you would doubtless find marijuana very unpleasant, and experience anxiety and paranoia. Perhaps you already have ...
If you had any real evidence to support your baseless assertion, you have had ample opportunity to present it - but you've got nothing !
Merely repeating that assertion is not an argument, nor evidence for anything except that, as you say, "I don't very easily deal with the idea that recreational drugs even exist."
That is not an argument about the virtue or otherwise of marijuana, it is purely a statement of your entrenched conditioning.
That statement expresses quite clearly that your idea of 'mental damage' is not the motivation for your argument, it is merely a specious rationalisation for an idea you "don't very easily deal with".
You have no rational argument, no evidence of the dangers you suggest, an extreme personal phobia about marijuana, a determination to avoid actual debate, and the use of glib remarks to avoid or dismiss rational objections to your position.
With a mindset like that, you would doubtless find marijuana very unpleasant, and experience anxiety and paranoia. Perhaps you already have ...
You said it - "I don't very easily deal with the idea that recreational drugs even exist." - but you are unable to come up with a supportable reason as to why, and if you re-read this thread you will see that you have provided no evidence that marijuana is dangerous, only the constant assertion of your unsupported opinion.
If you had any real evidence to support your baseless assertion, you have had ample opportunity to present it - but you've got nothing !
Merely repeating that assertion is not an argument, nor evidence for anything except that, as you say, "I don't very easily deal with the idea that recreational drugs even exist."
That is not an argument about the virtue or otherwise of marijuana, it is purely a statement of your entrenched conditioning.
That statement expresses quite clearly that your idea of 'mental damage' is not the motivation for your argument, it is merely a specious rationalisation for an idea you "don't very easily deal with".
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