The snake didn´t lie, God cheated

[kjw47]

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Satan is the voice of opposition/temptation. Deception is the only power he truly has. Why would God cast this tempter to a newly created earth, the home of Adam and Eve, unless Adam and Eve who are referenced as elohiym [angels/gods] in the book of "Psalms" were likewise cast from heaven with him? It makes little sense that God would send Satan and his angels to screw up his newly created paradise. It makes more sense that Adam and Eve were the fallen angels and that the serpent was Satan, all of whom were cast from heaven to the earth.

My guess is that God being merciful, gave them a chance to redeem their rebellion. God wiped the slate clean and gave them a world of their own as material creatures. They could maintain this paradise and live forever by obeying God [tree of life] or they could usher evil into the world by disobeying God [tree of the knowledge of good and evil] and create hell on earth. They were given a choice. They could choose life or they could choose death [destruction]. They chose unwisely.

I think the tree of life was preserved, guarded, and kept for them ... not necessarily from them. Even so, the wages of sin are death, so no matter what they did thereafter, they were going to die physically. Their spiritual selves would live on I think. Both God and the serpent were honest, just not completely. A & E came to know the difference between good and evil via life experience. They became like God in that they experienced the effects of evil. They likewise died, just not immediately.

The war in heaven occurred in 1914--Jesus rode the white horse to do battle with satan, and he recieved his crown-rev 6) the fallen angels are demons. satan came like a devouring lion,angry,knowing he had a short time-- he turned mens hearts to hatred all over the earth and ww1 started-a war like had never been. the other 3 riders rode as well--after ww1 millions died from starvation,diseases,pestillence.

 

[HeartFire]

Are you suggesting that Satan was still in heaven when Adam and Eve were tempted by the serpent? Satan is referred to as the serpent in the book of Revelation, so if the serpent of Genesis wasn't Satan, then why is Satan referred to as the serpent?

I'm sorry, but you seem to be implying that there was no starvation, disease, or pestilence prior to after 1914. Satan has had his teeth in mankind for many ages. Likewise the 3 horsemen you mention have likely been plaguing humankind for nearly as long.

 

[kjw47]

Are you suggesting that Satan was still in heaven when Adam and Eve were tempted by the serpent? Satan is referred to as the serpent in the book of Revelation, so if the serpent of Genesis wasn't Satan, then why is Satan referred to as the serpent?

I'm sorry, but you seem to be implying that there was no starvation, disease, or pestilence prior to after 1914. Satan has had his teeth in mankind for many ages. Likewise the 3 horsemen you mention have likely been plaguing humankind for nearly as long.

Satan went back and forth between heaven and earth all throughout the history of mankind--then in 1914 he was booted out of heaven to the vicinity of the earth along with his angels( demons). Yes satan is the original serpent.
I didnt apply that none of those things ever occurred before, just never like what occurred after satan came to earth and the 4 riders rode. Millions died in the war and millions after.

 

[HeartFire]

Satan went back and forth between heaven and earth all throughout the history of mankind--then in 1914 he was booted out of heaven to the vicinity of the earth along with his angels( demons). Yes satan is the original serpent.
I didnt apply that none of those things ever occurred before, just never like what occurred after satan came to earth and the 4 riders rode. Millions died in the war and millions after.

My next questions should be obvious ones. The serpent was cursed to crawl on its belly and consume the dust of the earth for the rest of his days. How then could Satan (the serpent) go back and forth from the earth to heaven? Likewise, why would God, after Satan orchestrating the fall, allow Satan back into heaven knowing the severity of evil soon to come upon the earth?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

then in 1914 he was booted out of heaven to the vicinity of the earth along with his angels( demons).

??? 1914??!

Wait, so he was on the payroll acting under orders until then?

Also, small note: Satan was not the serpent of Genesis. God's cursing of him in that manner make no sense if he were Satan, and, the words of the Bible make it clear it was an animal and nothing more. The serpent was a simple snake, who had eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, before sharing it with A&E.

Why else would he be able to talk?

 

[bulmabriefs144]

Yea, it was a cheat. But as I understand it Knowledge is something other than knowledge. Knowledge (lowercase) is understanding "1+1=2", while Knowledge the ability to Know things into existence (remember, Hebrew often used this word to refer to giving birth, and on a larger level, it refers to the Creation of new things, like the computer and variants thereof, or even someday having God-like power if they develop enough spiritually).

We're not calling sex a sin here. But a species without acquiring enlightenment first, that suddenly chomps on a immortality fruit, is kinda doomed to an evolutionary dead end. What reason would they have to change? And these physical gods keep reproducing until they cover the beautiful garden of Eden with people, who relentlessly chomp on the fruit for years on end until there's nothing left.

You can see God being concerned (even though this story is a metaphor), here He'd gone and Made this lovely garden and after all was said and done, the people he'd given it to were about to fill it with hundreds of fat stupid Neanderthals that would eat everything, poop on everything, and act like really bad tourists.

 

[HeartFire]

??? 1914??!

Wait, so he was on the payroll acting under orders until then?

Also, small note: Satan was not the serpent of Genesis. God's cursing of him in that manner make no sense if he were Satan, and, the words of the Bible make it clear it was an animal and nothing more. The serpent was a simple snake, who had eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, before sharing it with A&E.

Why else would he be able to talk?

Unless it is allegory and metaphor. If you consider what Adam and Eve were made of it could imply something else entirely. Adam was formed from the dust of the ground, and eve from Adam's rib. This could imply that the serpent (Satan) was cursed to consume humanity for the rest of his days after the fall, as in tempt them without end. This would make some sense given the condition of our world today.

Satan = adversary. The way I understand it, is that either the serpent was more clever than mankind, or mankind deceived themselves. It could be that Satan is the voice of opposition/temptation, which readily consumes our thoughts. This could possibly be why we so often fall into temptation. It could be that Satan is simply our unrighteous desires, thoughts, and inner voice of temptation.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

If it's allegory and metaphor... we don't have to think about it that much or apply it to the real world, at all.

 

[HeartFire]

If it's allegory and metaphor... we don't have to think about it that much or apply it to the real world, at all.

Aside from knowing our identity:


[youtube]E3RM5PI9ADI[/youtube]

 

[kjw47]

??? 1914??!

Wait, so he was on the payroll acting under orders until then?

Also, small note: Satan was not the serpent of Genesis. God's cursing of him in that manner make no sense if he were Satan, and, the words of the Bible make it clear it was an animal and nothing more. The serpent was a simple snake, who had eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, before sharing it with A&E.

Why else would he be able to talk?

Rev 12:9--Rev 20:2--teaches satan was the original serpent

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Revelations was an editorial attempt after the fact, and wrong.

Now, go back and attempt to explain it in the context of when it was actually written.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

Why else would he be able to talk?

He didn't talk afterword. Knowledge is what separates us from the animals.

 

[HeartFire]

He didn't talk afterword. Knowledge is what separates us from the animals.

I might disagree in that certain general knowledge and awareness is shared between both humans and animals. The difference I think is that we are aware of the difference between good and evil. As such, we are held accountable for what we do. Animals are not aware of good and evil. To them life is simply an exercise of survival. We are able to choose with understanding between good and evil. We know when we act with evil and/or good intent, whereas animals (as I understand it) act only instinctively. It isn't knowledge that separates us per se, but rather our level of awareness in relation to good and evil.

 

[kjw47]

Revelations was an editorial attempt after the fact, and wrong.

Now, go back and attempt to explain it in the context of when it was actually written.

I get it-- if i say up, you say down, if i say black, you say white.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

He didn't talk afterword. Knowledge is what separates us from the animals.

But he did talk before.. and who is to say he lost the ability to speak? God did not specify that as one of his punishments.

He DID talk before, and he knew.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I get it-- if i say up, you say down, if i say black, you say white.

No.

Explain it in the context of when it was said.

 

[kjw47]

No.

Explain it in the context of when it was said.

Gods word says that the original serpent was satan--no need for anything else.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But he did talk before.. and who is to say he lost the ability to speak? God did not specify that as one of his punishments.
He DID talk before, and he knew.

Remember the 'serpent' in Eden was Not in connection to snakes in general.
Satan used that serpent as a ventriloquist would use a dummy.
That 'snake in the grass', so to speak, did not have to speak but just appear to speak.
For all we know liar Satan could have told Eve he [Serpent] had the ability to speak because of eating the forbidden fruit.

So, it was Not punishment for earth's snakes but punishment for that Serpent aka Satan.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I might disagree in that certain general knowledge and awareness is shared between both humans and animals. The difference I think is that we are aware of the difference between good and evil. As such, we are held accountable for what we do. Animals are not aware of good and evil. To them life is simply an exercise of survival. We are able to choose with understanding between good and evil. We know when we act with evil and/or good intent, whereas animals (as I understand it) act only instinctively. It isn't knowledge that separates us per se, but rather our level of awareness in relation to good and evil.

Yes animals go by instinct [what animal can reflect the personality of Jesus ?], whereas humans have a built in conscience [inner witness bearer] that if undamaged can be aware to distinguish between right and wrong, moral and immoral.

- Romans 2 vs 14,15; 1st Timothy 4 v 2

 

[look3467]

Remember the 'serpent' in Eden was Not in connection to snakes in general.
Satan used that serpent as a ventriloquist would use a dummy.
That 'snake in the grass', so to speak, did not have to speak but just appear to speak.
For all we know liar Satan could have told Eve he [Serpent] had the ability to speak because of eating the forbidden fruit.

So, it was Not punishment for earth's snakes but punishment for that Serpent aka Satan.

Sometimes I wonder about you? It seems that at times you are on the verge of discovering when posts like this make me wonder.

Many times a rattler snake will warn us of impending danger, and if we should not pay attention to it will strike.
A child can understand that when a parent gives warning to watch out for such snakes or anything else for that matter.

What is the point here? That the snake bites? No, but that life can destroy us if we do not adhere to some prescribed rules.

The snake in the garden is not, I repeat, not a real snake but a story to portray the evil that may come as a result of our having the ability to make our own choices.

It would be something like if a man was given a million dollars to spend without any stipulations, that the world would eventually over come him to his destruction.

"The lust of the eyes" 1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

That my friends is the snake. It will bite you!

Now, counter that with God's conscience in the inner man; our conscience would warn us of any possibility of wrong doing, to a certain point, the decision is ultimately ours.
And if void of conscience, then it doesn't matter what we do, the world is at our door.

Blessings, AJ