How to implement a 2 state solution?

[Cassiopia]

How about a completely democratic one state solution where all those living in the region known variously as Israel and Palestine are entitled to an equal one vote each and the resulting majority get to rule regardless of race, religion or creed (in accordance with the wishes of the majority of people living there)?
It's worked pretty well in all the other parts of the world that are heralded as being fair, modern and democratic.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And then there are groups like Wahat Al-Salam / Neve Shalom ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's worked pretty well in all the other parts of the world that are heralded as being fair, modern and democratic.

You list yourself as being from/in the UK & Europe. When you say "it worked pretty well" you display some interesting blind spots ...

 

[Cassiopia]

You list yourself as being from/in the UK & Europe. When you say "it worked pretty well" you display some interesting blind spots ...

What I actually said was it has worked pretty well in those parts of the world that are regarded as being fair and democratic. That would include places like The UK, The USA, France, Germany, Sweden, Australia, New Zeeland and Canada.
What blind spots are you referring to?
Are you against democracy? Or are you only against democracy when it doesn't favour the outcome you desire?

 

[Flankerl]

How about a completely democratic one state solution where all those living in the region known variously as Israel and Palestine are entitled to an equal one vote each and the resulting majority get to rule regardless of race, religion or creed (in accordance with the wishes of the majority of people living there)?
It's worked pretty well in all the other parts of the world that are heralded as being fair, modern and democratic.

Wont work. It would result in an arab domination and jews would be where they were 65 years ago. An arab domination is not good.

Well from an arab point of view it obviously would work.

 

[Shermana]

Indeed, sadly this behavior on both sides of the aisle is largely the reason peace processes continue to be in a rut.

Except the Jews have offered the Palestinians a 2 state solution on several occasions and they refused it each time. Which is probably part of why I hold some of my views perhaps.

So has anyone offered an actual viable solution yet other than criticizing me for mine that doesn't involve the eventual total destruction of Israel?

I'd say what's "cancerous" is just sitting and sitting and waiting and waiting until the Demographics turn against Israel.

 

[Shermana]

Hah thats funny.

Now that you mention it the JDL sounds much more loveable.

Because they hate Messianics?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Which is probably part of why I hold some of my views perhaps

Actually, I think the bigotry (of which you're so proud) is far uglier.

 

[Shermana]

Actually, I think the bigotry (of which you're so proud) is far uglier.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

However, we've established in the Bigotry thread that most seem to think it implies "irrational, reasonless" opinion.

So if you'd like to prove that my biases aren't based on facts and reasons, have at it. Otherwise, continue to show me your personal scorn all you like.

 

[Wirey]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

However, we've established in the Bigotry thread that most seem to think it implies "irrational, reasonless" opinion.

So if you'd like to prove that my biases aren't based on facts and reasons, have at it. Otherwise, continue to show me your personal scorn all you like.

Okay. Your sweater appears foolishly chosen to others.

 

[Shermana]

Okay. Your sweater appears foolishly chosen to others.

I wear Jackets, not sweaters. I'm very biased against sweaters. (Though a nice Marino (sp) wool sweater is hard to turn down). However, my work out pants aren't the most stylish.

Now back to the OP, would ANYONE like to take a crack at outlining a feasible 2 state solution? Anyone?

(Crickets)

 

[F0uad]

I imagine the entire Middle East ruled by Israel would probably see the average Arab's quality of life going drastically up. Just sayin'.

Well isn't Qatar, Turkey and several other countries doing much better then Israel?
What if those Middle-easteren countries would stop doing trade with Israel what would happen according to you?

Not to forget most Arabs and Muslims don't want a secular law.

 

[Pink Top Hat]

The zionists made a 2 state solution impossible.

They have no intention of a 2 state solution and never have done.

 

[Falvlun]

Wont work. It would result in an arab domination and jews would be where they were 65 years ago. An arab domination is not good.

Well from an arab point of view it obviously would work.

So, I've heard this a lot and have always accepted it as truth, and a reason why a one state solution probably wouldn't be the best solution.

However, in looking at the numbers, I'm starting to wonder. Israel has about 7.8 million citizens. Approximately 5.8 million are Jewish and about 1.6 million are Arabs (the rest are non-Arab Christian or unregistered Jews, etc).

The number of people in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and E. Jerusalem-- the currently stateless Palestinians that would be absorbed into Israel in a one state solution--- number approximately 4 million, with 4.4 million being the highest estimate. So, add the 4.4 million to the currently 1.6 million Arabs already in Israel, and you get 6 million.

Now, granted that is more than the 5.8 million Jews, but it is only a slim majority, and that's using the highest number for the Palestinians. It would be about a 50:50 split-- not exactly Arab domination.

Would it be ideal for the Jewish people? Would their nation retain it's identity as a Jewish country and homeland? I don't know. But it's not like they would be snuffed out immediately if the Palestinians were to gain Israeli citizenship.

 

[Flankerl]

So thats why they accepted the proposal of the Peel Commission.

 

[Flankerl]

So, I've heard this a lot and have always accepted it as truth, and a reason why a one state solution probably wouldn't be the best solution.

However, in looking at the numbers, I'm starting to wonder. Israel has about 7.8 million citizens. Approximately 5.8 million are Jewish and about 1.6 million are Arabs (the rest are non-Arab Christian or unregistered Jews, etc).

The number of people in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and E. Jerusalem-- the currently stateless Palestinians that would be absorbed into Israel in a one state solution--- number approximately 4 million, with 4.4 million being the highest estimate. So, add the 4.4 million to the currently 1.6 million Arabs already in Israel, and you get 6 million.

Now, granted that is more than the 5.8 million Jews, but it is only a slim majority, and that's using the highest number for the Palestinians. It would be about a 50:50 split-- not exactly Arab domination.

Would it be ideal for the Jewish people? Would their nation retain it's identity as a Jewish country and homeland? I don't know. But it's not like they would be snuffed out immediately if the Palestinians were to gain Israeli citizenship.

You are forgetting all those "refugees" from all over the world. There would be an arab domination. Its as simple as that.

And then the jewish israelis would have to believe in the goodwill of their new lords. Should they pay the Jizya in advance?

 

[Falvlun]

You are forgetting all those "refugees" from all over the world. There would be an arab domination. Its as simple as that.

Why? Wouldn't they just need to apply for immigration like everyone else?

EDIT:
Israel extended citizenship previously just to the Arabs living within her boundaries; she didn't extend it to all Palestinians at that point. So I don't see why, should Israel extend its boundaries to officially include Gaza & the West Bank, Israel wouldn't just absorb those Palestinians currently living there.

 

[Cassiopia]

You are forgetting all those "refugees" from all over the world. There would be an arab domination. Its as simple as that.

And then the jewish israelis would have to believe in the goodwill of their new lords. Should they pay the Jizya in advance?

This may be a true point. However, is there any logical reason why the Jewish Israelis should have any more rights privileges and guarantees of cultural protection than the hundreds of other ethnic and religious minorities that exist around the world?

You may have your doubts but I would fight to defend Israel's right to exist in peace. However I do think the Israelis demand more special understanding and consideration than they are willing to give to others.

 

[Flankerl]

Why? Wouldn't they just need to apply for immigration like everyone else?

So you are anti palestinian. Because the return of those "refugees" is one of their key demands to any peace proposal. Even for a two-state solution.

This may be a true point. However, is there any logical reason why the Jewish Israelis should have any more rights privileges and guarantees of cultural protection than the hundreds of other ethnic and religious minorities that exist around the world?

You may have your doubts but I would fight to defend Israel's right to exist in peace. However I do think the Israelis demand more special understanding and consideration than they are willing to give to others.

Or perhaps all those other minorities(btw jews arent a minority in Israel) should all have a safer life than they currently have. Perhaps even an own country.

Should the jewish israelis just bend over because they have something other "minorities" dont have?


The israeli arabs certainly face some problems and even hate. But they still got more rights than in any arab country.

 

[jazzymom]

This may be a true point. However, is there any logical reason why the Jewish Israelis should have any more rights privileges and guarantees of cultural protection than the hundreds of other ethnic and religious minorities that exist around the world?

You may have your doubts but I would fight to defend Israel's right to exist in peace. However I do think the Israelis demand more special understanding and consideration than they are willing to give to others.

Given that most of Europe under the nazis worked really hard to commit genocide against the Jews I would say that the Israelis have a right to live in their state and not have more expectations demanded of them then is demanded of other countries.

The Arab world that is largely responsible for the wars that caused the refugees is silent on what to do with them. I believe only Jordan gave the Palestinian refugees who were in Jordan citizenship .

I find this one of the biggest human rights violations, adding to that the refugees grow yearly as it is now an inherited status.

Israel granted full citizenship to Palestinians and all non Jews living inside its borders 64 years ago. It took in the Jews expelled from middle eastern countries who lost everything.

Israel has given religious freedom to other religions to practice in Israel.

There are many other nations that have human rights violations but Israel is often singled out. There has been 64 years of living in a region that has waged war against Israel.

So I would like to see fairness.