Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Here in Lubbock, that claim is obviously true. Having lived in Portland (ah, my beloved Stumptown! :sad4
, I'm well aware that it's not the case everywhere.
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Did Jesus preach the "bad news" or the "good news"?
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
- Start date
, I'm well aware that it's not the case everywhere.
Peter, ah yes, our first Pope and Mark his scribe.
Papias, bishop of Hierapolis "claimed" that Mark, as Peter's interpreter, wrote an accurate gospel.
Mark is mentioned in the book of Acts. His Jewish name was John.
Once again, we have to trust that Luke is telling the truth about who "Mark" was.
I think Mark was just another follower of Paul not Jesus.
I don't think the first Epistle of Peter is legit either. The vocabulary and literary style is too advanced for a simple fisherman.
It reeks of Pauline doctorine.
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This is not about hard feelings, this is about you assuming things about me and making this debate personal.
Address my arguement not me personally OK?
Roberto, many Jews of that time spoke two languages. When they did business, they spoke Greek.
outhouse
Atheistically
John is the least credible for finding any historicity at all. written much later and from a sect of people well on their way distant from judaism. This comes from unknown authors in a johanine community, there are atleast 3 different authors or groups of authors. all written over a long period of time. recently there has been a trend of fionding some historicity within it and some sources are claimed to be older. My take is some of the oral tradition fed to his group was semi accurate "in places"
Attributed to the most beloved, doesnt mean "john" per say, but the early church played imaginary connect the dots with claiming john wrote it.
The other "3" are layered like onions with GMark at the center, not the best evidence, but all we have to work with.
I share your take on paul
outhouse
Atheistically
exactly. well put.
paul never met or knew jesus, didnt live in the same culture, and only knew of the original movement by what he had heard while hunting the early sect down.
jesus was a jew who started a different sect of judaism along a heavily populated area of zealots, jesus witnessed that violence against romans and knew this was not a win win situation, and I personally see this influence in scripture.
paul was a hellenistic roman citizen with knowledge of judaism. There were huge amounts of god-fearers in that time [roman citizens who worshipped in synagogues] Im not claiming paul was a god-fearer, but he resembles this group more so then any sect of judaism.
As far as I know Yeshua never conducted business whilst on earth, maybee the Greek guy ; jesus did ?
outhouse
Atheistically
So being a handworker in Galilee from early childhood until 30 years of age, selling yourself for day labor isnt a buisiness???
Hope
Princesinha
Are you saying that all Christians buy into "replacement" theology? Because if you are, that is an incorrect assumption.
Jesus was a Jew, not a Greek, He will return one day, and Israel is not replaced by the church. Not sure what sort of Christians you are hanging out with and getting these ideas from.
Hope
Princesinha
Ummm...I'm not sure where you're getting this view of Paul, because it sure isn't in the Scriptures.
"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today." ~quote of Paul in Acts 22:3
"Paul began crying out in the Council, 'Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!'"~Acts 23:6
"So then, all Jews know my manner of life from my youth up, which from the beginning was spent among my own nation and at Jerusalem; since they have known about me for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that I lived as a Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion." ~quote of Paul in Acts 26:4-5
Hope
Princesinha
Peter's sermon in Acts 2 also seems "too advanced" for a simple fisherman. I've heard this argumentation before. Quite frankly, it only holds up if one dismisses the reality and power of the Holy Spirit, which fell on the apostles at Pentecost. God can use and transform anybody, even simple fishermen, and the fact that the Christian faith started with a small group of uneducated, simple men is a miracle in and of itself. If it had nothing to do with the miraculous power of God, and left up to these poor, quivering, frightened, uneducated men to manage on their own, then I highly doubt much would have come of Jesus' command to go and make disciples.
outhouse
Atheistically
acts also states he was a roman citizen, if so then by his geographic location of Tarsus, he would also be a hellenistic jew
zealous is said to psosibly be a mistranslation for zealot. I am not sure and I dont see it.
As far as paul being a pharisee, it is debated because a pharisee would strickly adhere to jewish law and paul does not.
remember paul also claims to be a apostle, but the translation of apostle is "to be sent forth" if paul sent himself forth, is he really a apostle?
he is a self proclaimed apostle, since he made this claim, his claim to judaism as a pharisee. is also in question.
So, what did I state wrong?
You got me on that one
You mean to make me aware that the Greek god jesus was a businessman as well ?
outhouse
Atheistically
You got me on that one
Im saying historical jesus, had done buisiness to survive.
a buisinessman, no way.
In gospels jesus is portrayed though hellenistic influence, but greek god is a bit of s stretch, dont you think.
... Not sure what sort of Christians you are hanging out with and getting these ideas from.
The ones who reason the Bride of the Messiah is allowed to fornicate with pagan traditions such as christ-mass and the fertility goddes named Eostre. :thud:
outhouse
Atheistically
Its obvious you have not read about Emperor Constantine and Christianity AD 325
"historical jesus" > You mean post 325 ?
Hope
Princesinha
He states that he was born in Tarsus but brought up in Jerusalem. And even if he was a hellenistic Jew, what difference does that make?
Are you saying Paul is a liar and you know more about him than he knows about himself? Prior to his conversion to Christ, he did indeed strictly adhere to the Jewish law, if he was a Pharisee.
Paul didn't send himself forth. Jesus did. Have you really read Acts?
No, your reasoning makes no sense. Because it's based on a false premise.
A lot, with all due respect. I don't think you've really read Acts, or if you have, you didn't really understand it.