Once saved always saved ?? Christians

[Adamski]

What if your wrong???
I look around and people that attend churches that preach osas are committing grave sins and creating broken homes were I don't see
That in catholic or orthodox church goers?

 

[Thief]

A long standing story of belief has it....
One third of heaven was cast down.

God's favored angel, led the revolt.

If God's right hand favorite can lose his position....
then there is no such thing as a secured seat in heaven.

Just because They let you in.....
doesn't mean you get to stay.

If discipline is required for entry....
how much more to remain there?

 

[jtartar]

What if your wrong???
I look around and people that attend churches that preach osas are committing grave sins and creating broken homes were I don't see
That in catholic or orthodox church goers?

Adamski,
If you do not see a division in families who do not know God, this means they do not understand the message correctly. Because some believe in a family, and some do not, there will be adivision, just as Jesus said, Matt 10:34-37. The truth is; by far the majority of mankind will not believe, just as Jesus stated, Matt 7:13,14, Luke 13:23,24.
The reason that people will not believe is because of their HEARTS, Jere 17:9, Matt 13:13-15. The Bible says that no wicked ones will understand, Dan 12:10.
The first chapter of Proverbs also gives several reasons why people will not listen, Prov 2:22-32.
Consider what Peter wrote, 2Pet 3:2-4, 5-7.
Jude writes that some are admiring personalities, so they will not listen to truth, Jude 16.
Paul said that many would collect teachers together to tickle their ears, because they do not want to hear the truth, 2Tim 4:3,4. This is probably the worse kind of blindness, WILFULL BLINDNESS!!!
Others do not want to loose their positions, John 12:39-43.
Today, the FAUSTIAN way is taken above the work of God.
Peter said that some are EXPLOITED, so they never learn the truth, 2Pet 2:1-3.
Jesus spoke about people who hindered ones who want to learn, Matt 23:13,15.
Just as Jesus said; anyone who does not believe that Jesus si the Messiah and the son of God, cannot be saved, because there is NO SACRIFICE that covers them, John 8:23,24, Heb 10:26.

 

[sojourner]

A long standing story of belief has it....
One third of heaven was cast down.

God's favored angel, led the revolt.

If God's right hand favorite can lose his position....
then there is no such thing as a secured seat in heaven.

Just because They let you in.....
doesn't mean you get to stay.

If discipline is required for entry....
how much more to remain there?

Discipline? Required?
No.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What if your wrong???
I look around and people that attend churches that preach osas are committing grave sins and creating broken homes were I don't see
That in catholic or orthodox church goers?

Not 'once saved always saved' because as Jesus taught [Matthew 24 v 13] that one must endure to the end in order to be saved. Endure to the end of one's life or endure to the 'separation time' when Jesus separates the sheep and the goats. -Matthew 25 vs 31,32.

Hebrews [6 vs 4-6] mentions it is impossible for some to return to salvation.

 

[Road Warrior]

What if your wrong???
I look around and people that attend churches that preach osas are committing grave sins and creating broken homes were I don't see
That in catholic or orthodox church goers?

It boils down to one's perspective on God and Heaven. I believe heaven is not a physical place, but an attitude with respect to God, the Almighty, the Great Pumpkin or whatever one chooses to label the great force behind our Universe and its creation. If one is with God, which it appears several you described are not, then they will put themselves in their own hell. If one chooses to remove themselves from God, then, buy definition, they are "out of the light and into the darkness". A euphemism for Hell. Like Heaven, Hell isn't a physical place either.

FWIW, I think, given eternity, that eventually everyone ends up in Heaven. How long it takes is up to them since it is up to each to determine when they will see and come into the light.

 

[Thief]

Discipline? Required?
No.

So, are you then stating....
No one can be cast out?
Once in...it's a done deal....no matter your behavior?

 

[ChristineES]

There are scriptures that support OSAS- and I believe it. As for if I am wrong, I could always be wrong about anything.

 

[sojourner]

So, are you then stating....
No one can be cast out?
Once in...it's a done deal....no matter your behavior?

I think you're placing an inappropriate level of temporality upon the salvation process, and an inappropriate level of finitude on God's mercy.

 

[Thief]

I think you're placing an inappropriate level of temporality upon the salvation process, and an inappropriate level of finitude on God's mercy.

I suspect, with the book of Job nearby....
that standing in the presence of God has a list of qualifications.

 

[sojourner]

I suspect, with the book of Job nearby....
that standing in the presence of God has a list of qualifications.

What might those be?

 

[Kathryn]

I think our concept of salvation is limited by the fact that we look at time as linear.

I believe that I have been saved, I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

I also believe that there are many scriptures that support the concept of losing our salvation. I don't believe that if we run up the aisle at summer camp after 15 stanzas of "Just As I Am" that we got a ticket to heaven that we can never lose.

 

[Thief]

What might those be?

The book of Job actually doesn't list them!
When the sons of God gathered to present themselves, the devil came also.
And the Lord said...'From whence comest thou?'
(love the old English...don't you?)

The enmity between them is not explained.
But the insult that followed is clear....
'Have you considered the least of my servants...Job?'

The Lord had compared the devil to a servant....implying the servant's presence would be preferred.

The preamble of the story is ofter ignored.
Sons of God....plural. They are silent, making no objection to the devil's presence.

Job is blind sided...he was not present when the confrontation takes place and no warning is given.

But the point is...the devil's presence was met with objection.
Was he not God's favored at one time or another?
Therefore....if God is willing to shun and confront what was once His Chosen.....
what position is then secure?

 

[sojourner]

The book of Job actually doesn't list them!
When the sons of God gathered to present themselves, the devil came also.
And the Lord said...'From whence comest thou?'
(love the old English...don't you?)

The enmity between them is not explained.
But the insult that followed is clear....
'Have you considered the least of my servants...Job?'

The Lord had compared the devil to a servant....implying the servant's presence would be preferred.

The preamble of the story is ofter ignored.
Sons of God....plural. They are silent, making no objection to the devil's presence.

Job is blind sided...he was not present when the confrontation takes place and no warning is given.

But the point is...the devil's presence was met with objection.
Was he not God's favored at one time or another?
Therefore....if God is willing to shun and confront what was once His Chosen.....
what position is then secure?

The highly metaphoric and mythic nature of Job makes it very difficult, at best, to formulate any kind of doctrinal statement from it.

 

[Thief]

The highly metaphoric and mythic nature of Job makes it very difficult, at best, to formulate any kind of doctrinal statement from it.

Can't see it?....not wanting to look?

 

[sojourner]

Can't see it?....not wanting to look?

The highly metaphoric and mythic nature of Job makes it very difficult, at best, to formulate any kind of doctrinal statement from it.

I'm not willing to make the leap you've made from this text.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Let's play a game. It's called "what biblical character would say this".


"God isn't going to throw anybody into hell. He's too loving and merciful. It doesn't even really matter how rotten you are or if you totally reject Jesus, he loves you that much. I'd argue that we were all saved from the moment we were born. All that stuff about coming judgement in the NT is just metaphorical speech. Oh and yes, I'm a Christian."


Any guesses?


Edit:

Multiple choice

A. Satan
B. the prince of darkness
C. the ruler of the air
D. Beelzebub
E. All of the above

 

[Shermana]

Let's play a game. It's called "what biblical character would say this".


"God isn't going to throw anybody into hell. He's too loving and merciful. It doesn't even really matter how rotten you are or if you totally reject Jesus, he loves you that much. I'd argue that we were all saved from the moment we were born. All that stuff about coming judgement in the NT is just metaphorical speech. Oh and yes, I'm a Christian."


Any guesses?

Cletus the non-existent?

 

[Thief]

The highly metaphoric and mythic nature of Job makes it very difficult, at best, to formulate any kind of doctrinal statement from it.

I'm not willing to make the leap you've made from this text.

Well, the treat it as a parable....if you must.
But even if fictional altogether...
A doctrine is true (if it is true) regardless of source or delivery.

Even the devil is considered wise.

 

[Shermana]

What exactly is the metaphor in Job? Does not the story within this "metaphor" contain Theo-logic that would still apply to general Jewish philosophy of the day?