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Buddha favors religion and shuns having no-religion

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Buddha says: “The gift of religion exceeds all gifts; the sweetness of religion exceeds all sweetness; the delight in religion exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain.” Verse- 49: Chapter – 48: THE DHAMMAPADA.

Gospel of Buddha

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/

Paarsurrey comments: Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism do not subscribe to any religion; they rather abhor religion. Hence, they don’t belong to Buddha and Buddha does not belong to them.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Buddha says: “The gift of religion exceeds all gifts; the sweetness of religion exceeds all sweetness; the delight in religion exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain.” Verse- 49: Chapter – 48: THE DHAMMAPADA.

Gospel of Buddha

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/

Paarsurrey comments: Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism do not subscribe to any religion; they rather abhor religion. Hence, they don’t belong to Buddha and Buddha does not belong to them.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am wondering exactly what the Buddha meant by the word "religion"? (or the word that has been translated as religion)
 

Chisti

Active Member
Buddha says: “The gift of religion exceeds all gifts; the sweetness of religion exceeds all sweetness; the delight in religion exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain.” Verse- 49: Chapter – 48: THE DHAMMAPADA.

Gospel of Buddha

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/

Paarsurrey comments: Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism do not subscribe to any religion; they rather abhor religion. Hence, they don’t belong to Buddha and Buddha does not belong to them.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You're wrong. Others will correct you.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
fantôme profane;2923873 said:
I am wondering exactly what the Buddha meant by the word "religion"? (or the word that has been translated as religion)

My thoughts exactly because it doesn't fit with the Buddhist philosophy. "Religion" is tool for reaching spiritual fulfillment, for maximizing one's spirituality, but it isn't these things themselves.

We see this in the problems of religion today where people worship the religion and not the reason the religion is formed in the first place. Regardless if they are Christians, Buddhists or any other religious followers, if they become bogged down in the dogma of their religion, they will stunt their spiritual development. In Christians, this can be seen in actions like the anti-homosexual laws aka "pro-marriage laws" where they are pushing the dogma, but not actually paying attention to the message of Christ.

This translation appears more true to enlightenment to me:
"The gift of spirituality exceeds all gifts -- the sweetness of spirituality exceeds all sweetness; the delight in spirituality exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain."
A True Gift: The Gift of Spirituality | Gita, Exceeds, Their, Free, Spirituality
 

arthra

Baha'i
I think the Buddha was teaching more in the agnostic mode than say as an athiest... there was already an atheistic school called the Carvakas...

C

But to other theistic schools in India the Buddha's teaching was Nastika..

Āstika and nāstika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

because He would not rely on the Vedas and the Brahmin prerogatives..caste system.

The Gospel of Buddha was a lovely book by Paul Carus and well intentioned but he was not a scholar ...
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Buddha says: “The gift of religion exceeds all gifts; the sweetness of religion exceeds all sweetness; the delight in religion exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain.” Verse- 49: Chapter – 48: THE DHAMMAPADA.

Gospel of Buddha

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/

Paarsurrey comments: Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism do not subscribe to any religion; they rather abhor religion. Hence, they don’t belong to Buddha and Buddha does not belong to them.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I tried to look this verse up but could not because there are not 48 chapters in the DHAMMAPADA.

If the word religion is Dhamma (Pali) or Dharma (Sanskrit) it does not mean the same thing as religion in the west.

Dharma or Religion is seen as being based on eternally valid laws of nature.

So in India you have Buddhist Dharma (The path of the Buddha), The Hindu follows Sanatana-dharma (The Eternal path of righteousness). The Jain practices Jain-dharma.

Dharma means Law, and living in accordance with that natural law, is to walk the path of Dharma. If you do not follow the Laws of the Cosmos you suffer. The Dharma of the Lord Buddha is to show you the natural way to stop suffering.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Religions can be atheistic too.


The Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics deny with very strong sentiments that they belong to any religion; so why should they be called to belong to a concept that they don't like to ascribe to?
 
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Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
The Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics deny with very strong sentiments that they belong to any religion; so why should they be called to belong to a concept that don't like to ascribe to?
I do? I think you may be confusing people stating atheism is not a religion with people stating atheism is anti-religion.
 
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Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
The Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics deny with very strong sentiments that they belong to any religion; so why should they be called to belong to a concept that don't like to ascribe to?

Sorry but there are many Buddhists on this site who say they are Atheists.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
The Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics deny with very strong sentiments that they belong to any religion; so why should they be called to belong to a concept that don't like to ascribe to?
Jainism and Buddhism are two atheistic religions; Taoism is often atheistic, and some forms of Confucianism do not see Heaven as a God.

A Nontheist Friend [an atheist Quaker] is also an atheist and member of a religious group. Another, newer atheistic religion is Raëlianism.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Sorry but there are many Buddhists on this site who say they are Atheists.

There might be such Buddhists; yet Buddha was not an atheist.
Buddha was a straightforward person; he never said in unequivocal terms that he was an atheist or an agnostic or a skeptic.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Please quote from Buddha that he was an atheist/agnostic/sceptic.

Gladly:
It seems that is has been discussed briefly before, but I want to clarify this once and for all. Many have claimed Buddha was Agnostic and some went so far as to say he was Theistic, with no scriptural evidence to back this up whatsoever. My position is that Buddha was Atheistic and in some cases, Anti-Theistic, but never Agnostic or Theist.

The Buddha's Direct Words from Scripture on the Subject of God

Buddha:
"Others think that God is free creator of all things; clinging to these foolish notions, there is no awakening." [Lankavatara Sutra]

Buddha
: "All such notions [of a] ...personal soul, Supreme Spirit, Sovereign God, Creator, are all figments of the imagination and manifestations of mind." [Lankavatara Sutra]

Buddha: “This position rises the question of a first cause which the philosophers meet by asserting that their first cause, God and the primal elements, are un-born and un-annihilate; which position is without evidence and is irrational.” [
Lankavatara Sutra]

Buddha:
"In this same class the disciples are the earnest disciples of other faiths, who clinging to the notions of such things as, the soul as an external entity, Supreme Atman, Personal God, seek a [belief] that is in harmony with them. ...But none of these, earnest though they be, have gained an insight into the truth of the twofold egolessness and are, therefore, of limited spiritual insights as regards deliverance and non-deliverance; for them there is no emancipation. They have great self-confidence but they can never gain a true knowledge of Nirvana." [Lankavatara Sutra]

Buddha: "
The doctrine of the Tathagata-womb is disclosed in order to awaken philosophers from their clinging to the notion of a Divine Atman as transcendental personality, so that their minds that have become attached to the imaginary notion of "soul" as being something self-existent, may be quickly awakened to a state of perfect enlightenment." [Lankavatara Sutra]

Buddha: "Is it true that you hold that whatever a person experiences is all caused by a Supreme Being's act of creation? Then in that case, a person is a killer of living beings because of a Supreme Being's act of creation. A person is a thief, unchaste, a liar, a divisive speaker, a harsh speaker, an idle chatterer, greedy, malicious, a holder of wrong views because of a Supreme Being's act of creation. "When one falls back on creation by a Supreme Being as being essential, there is no desire [motivation], no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.' When one can't pin down as a truth or reality what should & shouldn't be done, one dwells bewildered & unprotected. One cannot righteously refer to oneself as a contemplative. This was my second righteous refutation of those priests & contemplatives who hold to such teachings, such views." [Tittha Sutta]

Buddha:
"Others see the eternally of things in the conception of Nirvana as the absorption of the finite-soul in the supreme Atman; or who see all things as a manifestation of the vital-force of some Supreme Sprit to which all return; and some, who are especially silly, declare that there are two primary things, a primary substance and a primary soul, that react differently upon each other and thus produce all things from the transformations of qualities; some think that the world is born of action and interaction and that no other cause is necessary;" [Lankavatara Sutra]


Buddha's Discourse On God, the Absolute, the First Cause, and the Nature of Reality

From the Culla Vagga of the Tipitika:

"After taking his seat Anathapindika expressed a desire to hear a discourse on some religious subject.

"The Blessed Lord responding to his wishes raised the question, Who is it that shapes our lives? Is it God, a personal creator? If God be the maker, all living things should have silently to submit to their maker's power. They would be like vessels formed by the potter's hand. If the world had been made by God there should be no such thing as sorrow, or calamity, or sin; for both pure and impure deeds must come from him. If not, there would be another cause beside him, and he would not be the self-existent one. Thus, you see, the thought of God is overthrown.


"Again, it is said that the Absolute cannot be a cause. All things around us come from a cause as the plant comes from the seed; how can the Absolute be the cause of all things alike? If it pervades them, then certainly it does not make them.


"Again, it is said that the self is the maker. But if self is the maker, why did he not make things pleasing? The cases of sorrow and joy are real and objective. How can they have been made by self?


(Note: I think he is referring to a supreme spirit/soul [like a Holy Spirit I guess] because in English, "the self" refers to the Hindu notion of a soul [atman].)


"Again, if you adopt the argument, there is no maker, or fate in such as it is, and there is no causation, what use would there be in shaping our lives and adjusting means to an end?


"Therefore, we argue that all things that exist are not without a cause. However, neither God, nor the Absolute, nor the self, no causeless chance, is the maker, but our deeds produce results both good and evil.


"The whole world is under the law of causation, and the causes that act are not un-mental, for the gold of which the cup is made is gold throughout.

^^
(This is a very interesting point.)

"Let us, then, surrender the heresies of worshiping God and praying to him; let us not lose ourselves in vain speculations of profitless subtleties; let us surrender self and all selfishness, and as all things are fixed by causation, let us practice good so that good may result from our actions."


[Culla Vagga 6:2]


(Note: For those who think the word "God" wasn't in his vocabulary, the Sanskrit/Pali words for God are "Ishvara" and "Brahma" referring to God/Supreme Being/Lord/Creator/First cause, etc.)

 
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