jesus founded nothing.

[outhouse]

I heard a prominant scholar claim this. It made so much sense.


Jesus took Johns work and progressed his work.


Jesus died failing to be the jewish messiah.


jesus apostles failed at bringing the "real" message to the world.



Enter's Paul, Jesus enemy. Who only knows of this failing movement who takes it to the romans where it takes off due to his work and his work alone within his cult. paul has no real prior knowledge of what jesus was doing or teaching and basically creates a mythical jesus that mirrors oral tradition.


Jesus real apostles see the popularity within the gentiles/romans and try to talk to paul about keeping these new converts within judaism and are flat turned down.

The real apostles movement fades away not even into history other then a rare glimpse through the roman version we are left with.

Roman version of jesus gains strength after the fall of the temple and the collapse of judaism's governement, and pickes up more followers of judaism to the movement before the division between the movement and judaism takes complete hold.



whats wrong with this picture

 

[fallingblood]

What's wrong with this picture is your portrayal of Paul and his relation to the Jerusalem church.

 

[outhouse]

What's wrong with this picture is your portrayal of Paul and his relation to the Jerusalem church.

how so?

 

[fallingblood]

how so?

Paul wasnt an enemy and all our sources state that it was the Jerusalem church who allowed Gentiles to enter the movement without becoming Jews.

 

[outhouse]

Paul wasnt an enemy and all our sources state that it was the Jerusalem church who allowed Gentiles to enter the movement without becoming Jews.

so when did they start letting in gentiles? after it started failing within the jewish community long after jesus death?

The "real" apostles were strictly jewish and its said by romans that they wanted all the converts to become jewish.

Thats not taking the message to gentiles. That is desperation when they failed to take the message to jews

 

[fallingblood]

so when did they start letting in gentiles? after it started failing within the jewish community long after jesus death?

The "real" apostles were strictly jewish and its said by romans that they wanted all the converts to become jewish.

Thats not taking the message to gentiles. That is desperation when they failed to take the message to jews

Acts states that Peter first took the message to the Gentiles. Acts and Paul both agree that it became an issue if those Gentiles who were converting to the movement had to be circumcised. And both Paul and Acts agree that the Jerusalem church and Paul agreed that new converts did not have to be circumcised. There is no reason to think that the Jerusalem church felt forced to do so in any way as the movement was apparently growing before that decision.

You're simply making up history here.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

so when did they start letting in gentiles? after it started failing within the jewish community long after jesus death?

The "real" apostles were strictly jewish and its said by romans that they wanted all the converts to become jewish.

Thats not taking the message to gentiles. That is desperation when they failed to take the message to jews

Peter ministered to the gentiles before the commission of Saul/Paul. It was he and the Jerusalem church that let the gentiles in. Read Acts 10

 

[cablescavenger]

I heard a prominant scholar claim this. It made so much sense.


Jesus took Johns work and progressed his work.


Jesus died failing to be the jewish messiah.


jesus apostles failed at bringing the "real" message to the world.



Enter's Paul, Jesus enemy. Who only knows of this failing movement who takes it to the romans where it takes off due to his work and his work alone within his cult. paul has no real prior knowledge of what jesus was doing or teaching and basically creates a mythical jesus that mirrors oral tradition.


Jesus real apostles see the popularity within the gentiles/romans and try to talk to paul about keeping these new converts within judaism and are flat turned down.

The real apostles movement fades away not even into history other then a rare glimpse through the roman version we are left with.

Roman version of jesus gains strength after the fall of the temple and the collapse of judaism's governement, and pickes up more followers of judaism to the movement before the division between the movement and judaism takes complete hold.



whats wrong with this picture

It is as good as anything else I have heard.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

It is as good as anything else I have heard.

Merda taurorum animas conturbit

 

[outhouse]

Acts states that Peter first took the message to the Gentiles. Acts and Paul both agree that it became an issue if those Gentiles who were converting to the movement had to be circumcised. And both Paul and Acts agree that the Jerusalem church and Paul agreed that new converts did not have to be circumcised. There is no reason to think that the Jerusalem church felt forced to do so in any way as the movement was apparently growing before that decision.

You're simply making up history here.

LOL acts has always been so reliable

 

[outhouse]

Peter ministered to the gentiles before the commission of Saul/Paul. It was he and the Jerusalem church that let the gentiles in. Read Acts 10

says who??


the material we are all left with plays peter and paul as good ole fishing buddies.


They were enemies, and you only have pauls version


and we all know paul is a "want to be" apostle, this would have infuriated the real apostles.

 

[fallingblood]

LOL acts has always been so reliable

You claim it to be reliable when saying that Paul was a Roman citizen. So you are being hypocritical.

 

[fallingblood]

says who??


the material we are all left with plays peter and paul as good ole fishing buddies.


They were enemies, and you only have pauls version


and we all know paul is a "want to be" apostle, this would have infuriated the real apostles.

Who says Peter and Paul were enemies? Seems like you are making things up. After all, they were both Jews.

 

[cablescavenger]

Merda taurorum

The stickiest substance known to man

 

[outhouse]

You claim it to be reliable when saying that Paul was a Roman citizen. So you are being hypocritical.

Paul is preaching to romans, why would he not be a roman???

im not using Acts, so then are you being hypocritical??

 

[outhouse]

Who says Peter and Paul were enemies? Seems like you are making things up. After all, they were both Jews.

Real scholars


show me a credible scholar who doesnt! even the scripture states paul was a jew persecutor [enemy]

want to be apostle, paul was a roman preaching to romans

REAL apostle, peter was a jew preaching to jews

 

[fallingblood]

Paul is preaching to romans, why would he not be a roman???

im not using Acts, so then are you being hypocritical??

Who says he preached to Roman citizens. He has a letter to the Romans. But that is because it was sent to Roman. Same logic applies to the Galatians or Corinthians. They are named such because of the city they lived. More so, his letter to the Romans is addressed to a church already existed and who was partially composed of Jews.

So it seems you are making up stuff here then.

 

[outhouse]

Who says he preached to Roman citizens. He has a letter to the Romans. But that is because it was sent to Roman. Same logic applies to the Galatians or Corinthians. They are named such because of the city they lived. More so, his letter to the Romans is addressed to a church already existed and who was partially composed of Jews.

So it seems you are making up stuff here then.

you would argue paul didnt take his message to gentiles

or that jesus real message failed within judaism???

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Real scholars


show me a credible scholar who doesnt! even the scripture states paul was a jew persecutor [enemy]

want to be apostle, paul was a roman preaching to romans

REAL apostle, peter was a jew preaching to jews

He preached in Jewish synagogues in Asia

 

[sojourner]

LOL acts has always been so reliable

Got a better, more "reliable" source?