Do Christians agree with slavery?

[nnmartin]

It becomes quickly obvious from reading the Bible (especially OT) that slavery is an accepted norm. Even Jesus in the New Testament accepts it and teaches that a slave should 'respect' his master.

Are we right to assume that because God condones it then it is ok?

 

[dust1n]

It becomes quickly obvious from reading the Bible (especially OT) that slavery is an accepted norm. Even Jesus in the New Testament accepts it and teaches that a slave should 'respect' his master.

Are we right to assume then that because God condones it then it is ok?

There are, for all intensive purposes, no Christians who agree with slavery. God doesn't exist and can't condone anything, but when you pretend he can, you'll probably vent this through one of several ancient, goat-herding textbooks and do something stupid like claiming you know a god exists, let alone what he condones.

 

[Me Myself]

It is accurate to say that the bible says slavery is perfectly ok and that Jesus never spoke against it.

 

[dust1n]

It is accurate to say that the bible says slavery is perfectly ok and that Jesus never spoke against it.

Agreed. It is also accurate to say that the Bible is completely irrelevant to anything pertaining to ethics or science, probably because it had something to do with goat-herding oral traditions that more so reflect far distant periods in the past in which these narratives aided in human survival against harsh and senseless circumstances.

 

[Villager]

It becomes quickly obvious from reading the Bible (especially OT) that slavery is an accepted norm. Even Jesus in the New Testament accepts it and teaches that a slave should 'respect' his master.

Are we right to assume that because God condones it then it is ok?

The Bible states that taking of slaves, by individuals, is immoral. It makes no comment on the common contemporary practice of enslaving those captured in warfare, or those found guilty of grievous crimes, whose alternative fate could be quick death. As slaves taken in war did not usually commit suicide, they presumably considered slavery the better alternative. Many slaves could earn their freedom, and could take important jobs within a society, so that seems a sensible attitude.

Much slavery was preferable to another alternative, which was starvation, due to drought, flood, pillaging, etc., common hazards in former times, when there were no social services.

What the OP does not state is the biblical view that slave masters were to take good care of their slaves- which was good sense, anyway, as they were investments.

 

[nnmartin]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]^that is not really true at all. It just says you cannot buy slaves from your own country.

If we follow this advice then it is clearly obvious that the Bible has no problems with the slave trade and today it would be fine to buy people from 3rd World countries to work for us for free.

So the Bible seems to condone slavery - it certainly doesn't prohibit it.

Why should we then take Christians seriously?

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)[/FONT]

 

[Kathryn]

It is accurate to say that the bible says slavery is perfectly ok and that Jesus never spoke against it.

The NT doesn't say that slavery is OK.

The NT, including the words of Jesus, says that we should be content regardless of our lot in life.

The KJV of the bible uses one word - slave - for seven Greek words which range in meaning from "beloved house servant" to "indentured servant" to "slave." Of course, if you take these nuanced meanings into consideration in the various verses, then the meaning is changed. That's one reason why I believe that KJV is poetically lovely, but not the best translation overall.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of indentured servitude, in my opinion. That's how many people made their way to places they wanted to get to, over the course of history.

There's often a big difference between the status of a slave, and the status of a servant.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are, for all intensive purposes, no Christians who agree with slavery.

Not any more, but this is a relatively recent phenomenon.

Fun fact: with its church-owned plantations, the Church of England itself was the second-largest owner of slaves in the Caribbean right into the 1800s.

The Bible states that taking of slaves, by individuals, is immoral.

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[dawny0826]

It becomes quickly obvious from reading the Bible (especially OT) that slavery is an accepted norm. Even Jesus in the New Testament accepts it and teaches that a slave should 'respect' his master.

Are we right to assume that because God condones it then it is ok?

Are you certain that Jesus accepted slavery? I think Jesus more or less provided guidance as to how slaves and their masters should interact because at that point in history slavery was "in".

Jesus taught love and to treat others as you'd want to be treated. Therefore, I'm not sold that God condones slavery.

God didn't enslave people. People enslaved people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The NT doesn't say that slavery is OK.

Yes, it does.

It explicitly says that all earthly authority, including the authority of a master over a slave, has been ordained by God, and that therefore, a slave should obey his master as he would obey God.

I don't think you can get much more positive an endorsement than that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you certain that Jesus accepted slavery? I think Jesus more or less provided guidance as to how slaves and their masters should interact because at that point in history slavery was "in".

Jesus taught love and to treat others as you'd want to be treated. Therefore, I'm not sold that God condones slavery.

God didn't enslave people. People enslaved people.

In the NT, it was Paul who endorsed slavery, not Jesus. Jesus just didn't care enough about slavery to speak to the issue, apparently.

 

[dawny0826]

In the NT, it was Paul who endorsed slavery, not Jesus. Jesus just didn't care enough about slavery to speak to the issue, apparently.

Jesus spoke on behaviors that contradict such treatment of people. What people choose to do with that advisement is on them.

 

[waitasec]

luke 12:47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows...

jesus used slavery in a parable to compare god as the master and the slaves as the believers...

yes jesus condoned slavery...

so i find it morally wrong. while christians who look to this bible
and find passages like these straight from the horses mouth and also passages in the OT where it was condoned to beat a slave within an inch of their life...it would seem as an ad hominem to separate themselves from the very teachings of their bible...slavery was given the big OK

so basically the bible condones the dominion of one person over another based on economic reasons. impressive.

 

[dawny0826]

luke 12:47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows...

jesus used slavery in a parable to compare god as the master and the slaves as the believers...

yes jesus condoned slavery...

so i find it morally wrong where a group of christians who look to this bible
where you find passages like these straight from the horses mouth and also passages in the OT where it was condoned to beat a slave within an inch of their life...

so basically the bible condones the dominion of one person over another based on economic reasons. impressive.

Um, NO. A Christian's relationship with God isn't in any way comparable to slavery because it's a flippin' choice. God has no dominion over one unless one grants dominion - if you're looking at a master/servant type dynamic.

 

[waitasec]

Um, NO. A Christian's relationship with God isn't in any way comparable to slavery because it's a flippin' choice. God has no dominion over one unless one grants dominion.

so are you saying a slaves mentality is what jesus wants from believers in order to find salvation?
that isn't a choice, it's an ultimatum.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Um, NO. A Christian's relationship with God isn't in any way comparable to slavery because it's a flippin' choice. God has no dominion over one unless one grants dominion - if you're looking at a master/servant type dynamic.

Jesus uses imagery of slavery throughout the Gospels. Apparently, he thought they were comparable.

 

[Villager]

In the NT, it was Paul who endorsed slavery, not Jesus. Jesus just didn't care enough about slavery to speak to the issue, apparently.

Paul wrote that slaves should try to gain freedom if they could (presumably legally). But then he wrote to many Gentiles who were slaves, in Rome, Corinth and other Graeco-Roman cities where slavery was the basis of economy. It would have been truly revolutionary to oppose slavery, and Paul was not going to get involved in politics when eternal salvation was all that mattered, ultimately.

Jesus did not mention a lot of things, because Judea and Galilee were not like Rome and Corinth, etc. Paul applied OT moral and ethical principles like a barnacle, and Jesus would have done exactly the same. Paul's words are those of Jesus. Period. Full. Stop.

 

[dawny0826]

so are you saying a slaves mentality is what jesus wants from believers in order to find salvation?
that isn't a choice, it's an ultimatum.

No. That's not know what I said.

Quite the opposite. The dynamic between God and follower is contrary to that of slave and master because the follower isn't chained to God in any way.

One has to believe and want God.

 

[dawny0826]

Jesus uses imagery of slavery throughout the Gospels. Apparently, he thought they were comparable.

So what? Does this mean that he condoned slavery?

 

[waitasec]

No. That's not know what I said.

Quite the opposite. The dynamic between God and follower is contrary to that of slave and master because the follower isn't chained to God in anyway.

One has to believe and want God.

see here is the conundrum your faith sets up...

the follower is chained because there are tenets a follower must follow through with in order to be a follower... faith is the chain.