Do Christians agree with slavery?

[waitasec]

So what? Does this mean that he condoned slavery?

did he say that no person is to have dominion over another?

no...

he relied on that human dynamic of master an slave to make a point of who god is...the master who will give many blows to the servant who doesn't follow the tenants

 

[dawny0826]

see here is the conundrum your faith sets up...

the follower is chained because there are tenets a follower must follow through with in order to be a follower... faith is the chain.

If this is your definition of slavery, then we're all slaves and faith/religion is the least of our concerns.

I don't feel enslaved by faith. My understanding of religion and my own faith continues to change and evolve. The only "chains" are that which I allow, through my own discipline and dedication.

I do however, feel enslaved and thoroughly distressed by people and their intolerance, ignorance and their flighty love and caring for others. It's challenging to avoid the annoyances that people bring to my life because I'm surrounded by people.

However, the things that I don't quite like about religion, I can quite easily walk away from.

 

[waitasec]

If this is your definition of slavery, then we're all slaves and faith/religion is the least of our concerns.

slavery is being controlled by a being other than yourself...

I don't feel enslaved by faith. My understanding of religion and my own faith continues to change and evolve. The only "chains" are that which I allow, through my own discipline and dedication.

still doesn't deter from the fact what jesus is credited to have said:
The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows...

I do however, feel enslaved at times by people and their intolerance, ignorance and their flighty love and caring for others.

me too...
but i fail to see what this has to do with slavery and god condoning it...

 

[dawny0826]

slavery is being controlled by a being other than yourself...

I don't view that dynamic as slavery at all. Sorry.

still doesn't deter from the fact what jesus is credited to have said:
The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows...

I'm going to take a look at this scripture in context before I comment.

me too...
but i fail to see what this has to do with slavery and god condoning it...

It doesn't, really. And I apologize for digressing. I'm not the Christian that I once was but still believe. I just wanted to convey that I genuinely feel more enslaved by people than I do the God of my faith.

 

[waitasec]

I don't view that dynamic as slavery at all. Sorry.

then how do you interpret luke 12:35-48?

I'm going to take a look at this scripture in context before I comment.

that would be a god idea.

It doesn't, really. And I apologize for digressing. I'm not the Christian that I once was but still believe. I just wanted to convey that I genuinely feel more enslaved by people than I do the God of my faith.

tell me about it.

 

[dawny0826]

luke 12:47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows...

jesus used slavery in a parable to compare god as the master and the slaves as the believers...

yes jesus condoned slavery...

so i find it morally wrong. while christians who look to this bible
and find passages like these straight from the horses mouth and also passages in the OT where it was condoned to beat a slave within an inch of their life...it would seem as an ad hominem to separate themselves from the very teachings of their bible...slavery was given the big OK

so basically the bible condones the dominion of one person over another based on economic reasons. impressive.

Ahhh, context.

Luke 12 NIV - Warnings and Encouragements Meanwhile, - Bible Gateway

I have misplaced my NKJV, which is what I usually reference. This is not my preferred translation.

Jesus is addressing his FOLLOWERS in Luke 12 and he's speaking on His own return, requesting his people to keep a watchful eye. And this particular verse that you've posted, simply states that if you know what's expected of you and you know that Jesus is returning and you choose not to do what you're asked - expect repercussions.

Luke 12:22-32 are some of my favorite verses, because I find them quite comforting, actually.

My interpretation and that's all it is...there are consequences for everything, naturally - religion and spirituality aside. In these verses, Jesus is addressing a willing audience who loves him, believes in him and believes that his advisement applies to everyone. This is their belief system, their God, that which they have chosen.

Respectfully, I can't liken this to slavery but do find it intriguing that others do.

 

[waitasec]

Ahhh, context.

Luke 12 NIV - Warnings and Encouragements Meanwhile, - Bible Gateway

I have misplaced my NKJV, which is what I usually reference. This is not my preferred translation.

Jesus is addressing his FOLLOWERS in Luke 12 and he's speaking on His own return, requesting his people to keep a watchful eye. And this particular verse that you've posted, simply states that if you know what's expected of you and you know that Jesus is returning and you choose not to do what you're asked - expect repercussions.

There are consequences for everything, naturally - religion and spirituality aside. I don't particularly understand the harsh view, labeling this as slavery, when clearly, the audience that Jesus is addressing is a willing audience who believe that his advisement applies to everyone. This is their belief system, their God, that which they have chosen.

Respectfully, I can't liken this to slavery but do find it intriguing that others do.

i still don't understand how you say jesus didn't condone slavery when his disciples were ordered to behave as slaves...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jesus spoke on behaviors that contradict such treatment of people. What people choose to do with that advisement is on them.

If so, then this is only one of many examples where the Bible gives a general principle that contradicts the specifics it lays out elsewhere.

 

[dawny0826]

i still don't understand how you say jesus didn't condone slavery when his disciples were ordered to behave as slaves...

It's all good.

 

[dawny0826]

If so, then this is only one of many examples where the Bible gives a general principle that contradicts the specifics it lays out elsewhere.

I don't pretend to not see the contradictions. I'm not going to front like it all makes good sense. My approach to Christianity is quite simplistic.

 

[waitasec]

It's all good.

forgive me, i mean no disrespect to you, but this is what i find so typical of religious faith and why i am not a fan of it...
looking the other way when it comes to moral discrepancies in the bible....


of course you don't agree with slavery, but jesus/god did
and the way in which this conflict is to be reconciled is by depending on disclaimers...

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, it does.

It explicitly says that all earthly authority, including the authority of a master over a slave, has been ordained by God, and that therefore, a slave should obey his master as he would obey God.

I don't think you can get much more positive an endorsement than that.

I'd like to see that chapter and verse please - and I say chapter because I don't like jerking single verses out of context.

Thanks.

 

[dawny0826]

forgive me, i mean no disrespect to you, but this is what i find so typical of religious faith and why i am not a fan of it...
looking the other way when it comes to moral discrepancies in the bible....


of course you don't agree with slavery, but jesus/god did
and the way in which this conflict is to be reconciled is by depending on disclaimers...

But I disagree with you that Jesus/God agreed with slavery and I explained why. It boils down to individual interpretation of God and the bible.

For what's it worth, I can't say with certainty that I'm right. I can only express that which I believe to be true. And I don't look the other way when it comes to discrepancies in the bible. There's a lot of odd crap in the bible.

If I were to worry over all of the outdated madness that's in the bible, I'd go ape.

I'm more interested in focusing on simple truths. Jesus' teachings inspire me. There's much that I find to be of great worth within the bible and then there's much that I find to be hard to understand.

I try to be honest.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'd like to see that chapter and verse please - and I say chapter because I don't like jerking single verses out of context.

Thanks.

Romans 13:1-7:

1 Every [a]person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except [b]from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore [c]whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for [d]good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Ephesians 6:5-8:

5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your [a]masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not [b]by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the [c]heart. 7 With good will [d]render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

I won't fill up the thread by posting the entire chapters. I know you can look them up on your own.

 

[Kathryn]

The passage in Romans is discussing government authorities, not slave owners.

The passage in Ephesians is in a chapter which is clearly discussing the topic of being content with our station in life, and putting our heart and soul into doing all things well and with a good attitude, because this is a testimony to our peace of mind in Christ and to our personal commitment to do things well in His name.

Context, context.

 

[waitasec]

But I disagree with you that Jesus/God agreed with slavery and I explained why. It boils down to individual interpretation of God and the bible.

how else is one to interpret the condoning of beating a slave with in an inch of their life?
ex 21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

For what's it worth, I can't say with certainty that I'm right. I can only express that which I believe to be true. And I don't look the other way when it comes to discrepancies in the bible. There's a lot of odd crap in the bible.

If I were to worry over all of the outdated madness that's in the bible, I'd go ape.

I'm more interested in focusing on simple truths. Jesus' teachings inspire me. There's much that I find to be of great worth within the bible and then there's much that I find to be hard to understand.

I try to be honest.

and i appreciate that, for what that's it worth

all i'm pointing out is that, yes, there is a lot of crap in the bible, which to me says the bible is a byproduct of the human experience, not any divine intervention for any type of salvation or divine explanation as to how people are to treat one another...it is flawed as humans are.

 

[waitasec]

The passage in Romans is discussing government authorities, not slave owners.

what is your definition of a governing authority?
a master over a slave seems to comply.

Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor...

The passage in Ephesians is in a chapter which is clearly discussing the topic of being content with our station in life, and putting our heart and soul into doing all things well and with a good attitude, because this is a testimony to our peace of mind in Christ and to our personal commitment to do things well in His name.

Context, context.

nonetheless, it is condoning slavery by asking followers to put on a slave mentality...

slavery was gods tool.

 

[Me Myself]

No. That's not know what I said.

Quite the opposite. The dynamic between God and follower is contrary to that of slave and master because the follower isn't chained to God in any way.

One has to believe and want God.

He will go to hell eternaly if he is a bad slave, I would say that mainstream christianity god is the cruelest slave owner in history.

T

The passage in Ephesians is in a chapter which is clearly discussing the topic of being content with our station in life, and putting our heart and soul into doing all things well and with a good attitude, because this is a testimony to our peace of mind in Christ and to our personal commitment to do things well in His name.

I agreee completely. Slaves should be content with their slavery. I just don´t get why people even want to contradict this beautiful piece of wisdom by Paul (really?! :cover

 

[nnmartin]

There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of indentured servitude, in my opinion.

I'm sure the Africans 'sold' into these positions a few hundred years ago would have a different opinion on that.

I have an idea - why don't you come and work in my factory for 80hours/week - no salary - perhaps an occasional bowl of rice though. And if you are lucky, and I don't need you any longer then I might let you go free.

It's ok because the Bible says you should accept your position and respect your master.


I will post the address here if you are interested.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

The NT doesn't say that slavery is OK.

The NT, including the words of Jesus, says that we should be content regardless of our lot in life.

The KJV of the bible uses one word - slave - for seven Greek words which range in meaning from "beloved house servant" to "indentured servant" to "slave." Of course, if you take these nuanced meanings into consideration in the various verses, then the meaning is changed. That's one reason why I believe that KJV is poetically lovely, but not the best translation overall.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of indentured servitude, in my opinion. That's how many people made their way to places they wanted to get to, over the course of history.

There's often a big difference between the status of a slave, and the status of a servant.

Great post. Sadly, most of the responses from non-Christians on this thread are willfully ignorant in that they rely on this literal translation of the word 'slave'. They also fail to understand that the writers of the Bible were trying to describe the infinite and divine in words and imagery from a culture that was very different than the ones in which we find ourselves in the Year of our Lord 2011.

What they are doing is analogous to their misinterpreting someone uttering the statement "Rain falls on the just and unjust alike." to mean that the speaker wishes people to drown in a flood.