Help! I'm A Weird Christian

[CLM9999]

with regards to the inspiration of the jewish tradition and the christian one, how can you reconcile your position of ignoring the jewish tradition when it is the foundation for the christian one?

I feel the same way Jesus/Paul did:

They were very respectful of the O.T. but threw it out for all practical purposes. Think about it: the tithe, all the Law, circumcision, all the temple ceremonies, the violence, polygamy and on and on - Jesus/Peter/Paul threw it all out. I could go on and on about this, but if you'll stop and think about it, there is virtually nothing that a modern Christian follows in the Old Testament.

 

[CLM9999]

Weirdness is goodness. Welcome, CLM9999!

Thx. Although for the record, I don't want to be the odd man out just for the sake of it...

 

[CLM9999]

So is it to be understood that people who recite a creed, then go out and commit horrendous crimes, are Christians? It would be good to make a few basic definitions.

I just used the example of the Creed to point out that I still believe in what I consider "the basics" of Christianity. I know not everyone on this thread would agree with me on both sides of the issue, but I was using that to point out that I would not agree with many liberals who don't believe Jesus was raised from the dead, may not have even existed historically, etc.

Again, not picking a fight, but just trying to clarify the unusual position I find myself in...

 

[no-body]

The only rigid codes in the Bible are no longer applicable. The 'command' now is to love. That does not produce obedience to a command as such, but the response of love, to love. Christians love because Christ loved. The necessary pre-requisite is awareness of God's perfection, and one's own sinfulness, because without that contrasting sense, one will never love enough to change one's lifestyle. So it really is a matter of following one's heart, or one cannot be a Christian. Nobody can do that for another.

That all sounds innocuous enough until you start getting into the details.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I am sure that there are some who believe as you do. Good luck.

 

[Villager]

That all sounds innocuous enough until you start getting into the details.

How do you know?

 

[Protester]

I feel the same way Jesus/Paul did:

They were very respectful of the O.T. but threw it out for all practical purposes. Think about it: the tithe, all the Law, circumcision, all the temple ceremonies, the violence, polygamy and on and on - Jesus/Peter/Paul threw it all out. I could go on and on about this, but if you'll stop and think about it, there is virtually nothing that a modern Christian follows in the Old Testament.

Well, there's really nothing in much of modern Christianity that is Christian for that matter.:sad4:

Most people go to church to get something they cannot get elsewhere. This consuming public–people who already believe, or who are attempting to believe, who want their children to believe–go to church to learn about the mysterious Truth on which the Christian religion is built. They want the Good News, not the minister’s political views or intellectual coaching. The latter creates sprawling vacancies in the pews. Indeed, those empty pews can be considered the earthly reward for abandoning heaven, traditionally understood.

excerpt from, AlbertMohler.com – A New Exodus? Americans are Exiting Liberal Churches

Oh, not everything was abandoned, Christ repeated nine of the ten commandments, so, you Protestants don't observe the Jewish Sabot, though most early Christians did attend a synagogue.

Finally there is this:

Acts 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."---Scripture Quotations Taken from the NASB

Which the Jerusalem Church instructed the gentile believers to do -- still good advice if you ask me!

But yes, the Jewish and Christian religions are exclusive of each other, but still we can work well in the secular world, when considering our Judeo-Christian heritage as the well-respected conservative Jewish commentator put it:

Both religions are based on the Old Testament, which Judaism and Christianity hold to be divine or divinely inspired. Clearly, then, they will share values – unless one holds that the New Testament rejects Old Testament values. But that is untenable since, in addition to Christianity believing the Old Testament is God's word, Jesus was a believing and practicing Jew. He would not practice a religion whose values or Bible he rejected. ---Dennis Prager

Read more: The case for Judeo-Christian values, part 5
​

 

[no-body]

How do you know?

This is not a debate forum so I don't want to get too into it, but I hear double speak in those words. Love eventually turns into "you have to follow these set of black and white rules" it just takes a long convoluted way for so called real Christians to say it so they can claim it is from God.

 

[JacobEzra.]

I feel the same way Jesus/Paul did:

They were very respectful of the O.T. but threw it out for all practical purposes. Think about it: the tithe, all the Law, circumcision, all the temple ceremonies, the violence, polygamy and on and on - Jesus/Peter/Paul threw it all out. I could go on and on about this, but if you'll stop and think about it, there is virtually nothing that a modern Christian follows in the Old Testament.

My friend you are mistaken

 

[Villager]

it just takes a long convoluted way for so called real Christians to say it so they can claim it is from God.

Why would Christians, or anyone, make up rules?

 

[no-body]

Why would Christians, or anyone, make up rules?

I never claimed they where made up, just unnecessary.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Why would Christians, or anyone, make up rules?

no Idea .. but it is self evident they do ...
or the "rules" would be the same for all denominations.

 

[Villager]

I never claimed they where made up

So when they claim it is from God, they are telling the truth?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I just used the example of the Creed to point out that I still believe in what I consider "the basics" of Christianity. I know not everyone on this thread would agree with me on both sides of the issue, but I was using that to point out that I would not agree with many liberals who don't believe Jesus was raised from the dead, may not have even existed historically, etc.

Again, not picking a fight, but just trying to clarify the unusual position I find myself in...

Would it in any way stop you believing in Jesus if he had not been raised from the dead in physical form?
I am happy to believe that he was...
But my faith does not depend on it.

 

[CLM9999]

My friend you are mistaken

I respectfully disagree. Jesus COMPLETELY changed everything. There is almost NO similarity in the way the early disciples lived and the Jews of the same day.

A person can argue that there are metaphorical similarities such as the fact there is communion/Eucharist versus a Passover, etc. But when it comes to practical day-to-day spirituality and theology, you could not have more opposite views.

Let me give just one example: Jesus and Paul's emphasis on faith is only VERY briefly touched upon in the Old Testament.

There is no end to the mind-bending, earth-moving changes that Jesus brought about and I love everyone of them.

St. Francis was very impressive, but he didn't (of course) have the insight of Jesus. Jesus was literally millenia ahead of his time in many key ways. And that's to be expected...

 

[CLM9999]

Would it in any way stop you believing in Jesus if he had not been raised from the dead in physical form?
I am happy to believe that he was...
But my faith does not depend on it.

Not sure where you're headed with this. The Resurrection is a belief thing for me - there's no direct way to prove or disprove it of course.

Of course, the lives of the early apostles does make one thing something remarkable happened!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I respectfully disagree. Jesus COMPLETELY changed everything. There is almost NO similarity in the way the early disciples lived and the Jews of the same day.

A person can argue that there are metaphorical similarities such as the fact there is communion/Eucharist versus a Passover, etc. But when it comes to practical day-to-day spirituality and theology, you could not have more opposite views.

Let me give just another example: Jesus and Paul's emphasis on faith is only VERY briefly touched upon in the Old Testament.

There is no end to the mind-bending, earth-moving changes that Jesus brought about and I love everyone of them.

St. Francis was very impressive, but he didn't (of course) have the insight of Jesus. Jesus was literally millenia ahead of his time in many key ways. And that's to be expected...

I would suggest one can almost be sure which teachings, that have come down to us, are Jesus own, by how much they differ from the Jewish ethos of the old testament.
Some ( not all) of Paul and others writings are often Jewish in character, rather than Christian.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Not sure where you're headed with this. The Resurrection is a belief thing for me - there's no direct way to prove or disprove it of course.

Of course, the lives of the early apostles does make one thing something remarkable happened!

Mary Magdalene's response to Jesus return is very compelling, and the fact that a "woman" is reported as being the first to see him is equally compelling, since at that time women were the least likely to be believed. It is also relevant that the Gnostics Give Mary Magdalene a great prominence as the apostle to the apostles.

I am heading to a minimalist Christanity.... Not so much a mix and match one... but one where belief in Jesus is sufficient in itself, in that it requires no support and no proof.

 

[no-body]

So when they claim it is from God, they are telling the truth?

The truth as they believe it, sure.

 

[Villager]

So how is it that God makes rules that are 'just unnecessary'?