Confession

[horizon_mj1]

are you willing to concede that the gospel writers were not eye witnesses to what jesus said and or did?

but i think i know what you mean, luke 6 says it all...

Right

so my question to you is how do you know you have the correct translation?
btw, i'm not offended so long as your religious ideals to not infringe on others freedoms... :rainbow1:

Every person has a right to any ideal so long as it does not endanger others (such as radicals from any religion). It is not so much translation as it is what was left out. There are the Lost Books of Eden which explain how Cain and Able both had twin sisters in which they were betrothed to each other's twin. Cain was jealous of Able, thus killing him. It also tells how Adam and Eve lived in the Treasure of Caves (I am pretty sure that is what it was called) and were tormented by Satan. There is also documentation of Christ when He was a Child turning clay pigeons into real ones on the Sabbath Day. The Secrets of Enoch are also highly intriguing for they explain what Heaven is like (Enoch was the only one in Abraham religion who was granted full acceptance as a human by God and asked to live in Heaven). These are books that when the King James Translation (oldest English translation) was done by the Catholic Church, were left out due to the Church feeling that the stories were not relevant. IMO it was due to fear of Truth being able to be found without the Church (any Church for that matter). If you set rules that are really not relevant to anything, it gives you a "control" of sorts, established religions are all guilty of this IMO

 

[Christina83]

Wow didn't know this topic would appeal to so many people.
However I think we have moved away from the main question, i.e. is auricular confession scriptural?
The traditional formula, still often used is: Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been ---[lenght of time]...since my last confession.
But then the bible in Matthew 23:9 Jesus said: "You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven".
The bible incourages us to have a personal relationship with God himself and ask for forgiveness in prayer to God.
Why tell my sins to someone else? Does a priest really have the power of forgiveness?

Then about the question "can all sins be forgiven?"
What do you think of what is said in Mark 3: 29 and Hebrew 10:26?

Thanks,
Christina

 

[elmarna]

Forgiveness is 1 of gods virtues. While it may not be without certain religions to place it in ceremony it is not without all of us to have the ability to practice it!
Forgiveness of sins that would be bestowed upon you is for god to enact and us to consider. A priest is not god. At best if the majority of you peers see that you heart is with a show of hands to change and forge the words of god as your service than forgiveness of sins is obtained with the accountability to be questioned later by god.

 

[On_a_Quest]

Wow didn't know this topic would appeal to so many people.
However I think we have moved away from the main question, i.e. is auricular confession scriptural?
The traditional formula, still often used is: Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been ---[lenght of time]...since my last confession.
But then the bible in Matthew 23:9 Jesus said: "You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven".
The bible incourages us to have a personal relationship with God himself and ask for forgiveness in prayer to God.
Why tell my sins to someone else? Does a priest really have the power of forgiveness?

You have to keep in mind the way that Christianity was formed. I don't think any of the Christianities of today represent exactly the message of Jesus. They're all getting at the right idea, but Jesus didn't actually make a church; his disciples did. The many different sects of Christianity today (with some exceptions: Jehovah's Witnesses, Church of the LDS, Methodist Church) mostly stem originally from Catholicism, which was the faith that "won" the battle between early Christian ideas in the first couple centuries after Jesus. That means that they were all based out of the religion that Paul initiated. Jesus didn't create Christianity; Paul, a man who never actually met Jesus, would be more deserving of the title the Founder of Christianity.

To make my point, the Church likely does not agree with the Bible on all points. It was built out of tradition that was solidified over the centuries through debate. Can a priest have the power of forgiveness? It appears that the Bible says no (at least in one place), but the tradition of the Church says absolutely! I think that's for the individual to decide.

 

[rsd]

Is the rite of reconciliation, including personal confession into the ear of a priest, as taught by the Catholic Church scriptural?
Can all sins be forgiven?

I am not sure about your first question. You also ask, "Can all sins be forgiven?" There is one sin that is very dangerous and can destroy you. And that is to be critical and blasphemous toward the Lord's dear most disciples. This sin we must guard against with great care. Otherwise, all sins can be forgiven.

 

[Christina83]

From everyone's replies, I gather that God through Jesus is the only one that can forgive sins. Totally agree! I know that we are all imperfect and there are things that you just can't help, after all we are made of dust, but how does the punishment (repeating the rosary 20 times or hale Mary 100 times) prevent me from sinning again? for instance a burglar? Am I going too far?

 

[Bob Dixon]

From everyone's replies, I gather that God through Jesus is the only one that can forgive sins. Totally agree! I know that we are all imperfect and there are things that you just can't help, after all we are made of dust, but how does the punishment (repeating the rosary 20 times or hale Mary 100 times) prevent me from sinning again? for instance a burglar? Am I going too far?

It's not punishment, it's penance.

And those prayers, said emptily, won't do anything. It's about praying with all your heart. Then, you can change.

And you're only really forgiven if you're really sorry anyway.

 

[Christina83]

It's not punishment, it's penance.

And those prayers, said emptily, won't do anything. It's about praying with all your heart. Then, you can change.

And you're only really forgiven if you're really sorry anyway.

Ah ha:yes: got-cha.
Ok I must tell my ex-schoolmate to stop waisting his time then, and just focus on feeling really sorry.

Thanks!

 

[Bob Dixon]

Ah ha:yes: got-cha.
Ok I must tell my ex-schoolmate to stop waisting his time then, and just focus on feeling really sorry.

Thanks!

Yes.

I remember a quote, don't know who it's by...

"You can go to church and pray all you want, but that doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car".

 

[JacobEzra.]

From the point of view of the Catholic Church, since people are sinners they need priests and saints to intervene on their behalf. This goes along with the idea of people praying to saints instead of directly to God. Priests are seen as being above the rest of the congregation because during the Eucharist, as I understand it, the priest becomes the embodiment of Jesus/God. It makes priests on a different level and suitable as mediators between the layperson and God. That's what I think the reasoning is.

Wrong dude.

Saints are just intercessors and are not prayed to like God is. We only invoke their help in needs, but at the end of the day every Catholic should be prayer to God. I start my day with the Sacred Heart prayer and end it with a prayer of thanks to God. Where did you get some silly idea as this that you are saying Catholics believe???

And Priest are special. They are the Lords appointed, who care for the spiritual health of the parish they look after. They give advice and direction and are good to meet with at least once a month or two, just to tell how you are doing.

They do not become the embodiment of Christ during the Eucharist. I think you are mixed up in some things. I think you are trying to refer to the consecration and transubstantiation of the Eucharist. That is, the Eucharist is changed and hold the body and blood of our Lord. In other words, the "Real Presence" in the Eucharist.

The Priest is anointed and carries a calling. But the clergy are not as different and alienated or venerated over the laity as you make it sound. We all have out parts to do.

They are not mediators. the Sacrament of Reconciliation is just that, a sacrament. It is an outward sign of an inward grace.

From scripture. John 20

[21] He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

2 Corinthians 5

[18] But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ; and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation. [19] For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing to them their sins; and he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation. [20] For Christ therefore we are ambassadors, God as it were exhorting by us. For Christ, we beseech you, be reconciled to God.

From the Catechism;

1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline.66 Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.67

And also like to point out

1466 The confessor is not the master of God's forgiveness, but its servant. The minister of this sacrament should unite himself to the intention and charity of Christ.71 He should have a proven knowledge of Christian behavior, experience of human affairs, respect and sensitivity toward the one who has fallen; he must love the truth, be faithful to the Magisterium of the Church, and lead the penitent with patience toward healing and full maturity. He must pray and do penance for his penitent, entrusting him to the Lord's mercy.

1467 Given the delicacy and greatness of this ministry and the respect due to persons, the Church declares that every priest who hears confessions is bound under very severe penalties to keep absolute secrecy regarding the sins that his penitents have confessed to him. He can make no use of knowledge that confession gives him about penitents' lives.72 This secret, which admits of no exceptions, is called the "sacramental seal," because what the penitent has made known to the priest remains "sealed" by the sacrament.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm#1452

This sacrament is very healing, and a confessor can aid you in bettering yourself and fighting your weaknesses.

 

[JacobEzra.]

From everyone's replies, I gather that God through Jesus is the only one that can forgive sins. Totally agree! I know that we are all imperfect and there are things that you just can't help, after all we are made of dust, but how does the punishment (repeating the rosary 20 times or hale Mary 100 times) prevent me from sinning again? for instance a burglar? Am I going too far?

I never herd having to repeat the Rosary 20 times or saying 100 hail Marys.

Maybe saying the complete Rosary, three sets, but that it. It spiritual help. To cultivate a devotion? The best part of confession is receiving advice on bettering yourself and fighting your weaknesses.

Penance can also be having to apologize to someone for a wrong you committed. I have heard of Husbands and Wives arguing and fighting, and the priest gives a penance of having to sit down and talk it out.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Wow didn't know this topic would appeal to so many people.
However I think we have moved away from the main question, i.e. is auricular confession scriptural?
The traditional formula, still often used is: Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been ---[lenght of time]...since my last confession.
But then the bible in Matthew 23:9 Jesus said: "You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven".
The bible incourages us to have a personal relationship with God himself and ask for forgiveness in prayer to God.
Why tell my sins to someone else? Does a priest really have the power of forgiveness?

Then about the question "can all sins be forgiven?"
What do you think of what is said in Mark 3: 29 and Hebrew 10:26?

Thanks,
Christina

The priest carries on the ministry, but its the sorrow(perfect contrition) within you that brings about forgiveness from God. Its a sacrament, as in an outward sign of an inward grace.

And that verse you quoted is very popular. Though makes no sense when taken literal. Just like alot of things used against Catholics.

I bet you never called your father....Father, huh?

 

[JacobEzra.]

But it is understood in many different ways. That is why Christianity has so many different sects. Protestantism arose because people went back to the Bible (Catholics are notorious for not reading the Bible) and drew their own interpretations from it. Then other Protestant religions arose over time as different groups of people came up with different interpretations of the same book.

Why do you lie and slander the Church?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Forgiveness is 1 of gods virtues. While it may not be without certain religions to place it in ceremony it is not without all of us to have the ability to practice it!
Forgiveness of sins that would be bestowed upon you is for god to enact and us to consider. A priest is not god. At best if the majority of you peers see that you heart is with a show of hands to change and forge the words of god as your service than forgiveness of sins is obtained with the accountability to be questioned later by god.

You misunderstand the sacrament

 

[Falcon]

God allready knows our sins ,that is why He formed His earthly Church , to act in His behalf while He is gone . All authority , we see from the Bible was given to His Apostles and their qualified successors , just as the Bible states. Along with this ,went the authority and power to forgive sins as initiated by Jesus-
John 20 : 21-23 " ...."Pease be with you. [ speaking only to His Apostles ] As the Father has sent me, so I send you. " And when he had said this , he breathed on them and said to them , " Receive the holy Spirit . Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained ".

Somebody above wrote the Bible says 'not to call any man Father' , the Bible call Abraham Father along with the following verses that call the name father ... Acts 7v 2;Acts 7:38-39; Acts 7: 44-45; Acts 7: 51-53; Acts 21: v 40 - 22v 1; Romans 4: 16-17; 1 Cor. 4 : 16-17; 1Thess. 2v 11; 1 Tim. 1v 2; Titus 1v 4 ; Phil. 1 : 9-10; 1 John 2: 13-14.

 

[Awoon]

How do you decide "what Christ Himself taught"?

And don't the Gospels record Jesus as saying that he would institute a church on Earth? What do you take this to mean? I would think it implies some sort of cohesion between believers, not some arrangement where everyone does their own thing.

The word "church" in Aramaic means to throw a party, to celebrate life.

Sacrifices were BBq's, they cooked the food and passed it around.

So whatever party or cook out you attend you are at "church."

Jesus didnt set up any organizational institution.

 

[JacobEzra.]

The word "church" in Aramaic means to throw a party, to celebrate life.

Sacrifices were BBq's, they cooked the food and passed it around.

So whatever party or cook out you attend you are at "church."

Jesus didnt set up any organizational institution.

Thats not what the Apostles show

 

[Awoon]

Thats not what the Apostles show

The language of Aramaic does.

 

[JacobEzra.]

The language of Aramaic does.

I didn't know anyone was fluent in Aramaic these days

 

[islam abduallah]

Is the rite of reconciliation, including personal confession into the ear of a priest, as taught by the Catholic Church scriptural?
Can all sins be forgiven?

i don't think that it could forgive the sins, no body could forgive the sin, only the god who does

the priest is a human like me and you who has also his own sins, maybe you are closer to the god than him, so indeed it's not his right
by the experience we found that many of priests are doing crimes in the churches, so do they could forgive sins?
i don't think so