More evidence that capitalism is a big cod.

[Revoltingest]

well sweden is a great example...i'm just trying to lighten the mood.
ever been there? how about denmark or norway?
i'm married to a swede and i'm here to tell you, it's a damn good system...compared to how we live here.
health care, education, social services are to be envied, no homelessness, 18 month maternity leave, the streets are immaculate. if one is in need it's because they want to be.
the only thing i do not like about sweden are the long winter nights...
capitalism thrives on wanting more until there is nothing left.

It's interesting that you cite Denmark.
They just might be more capitalistic than The US.
Country rankings for trade, business, fiscal, monetary, financial, labor and investment freedoms
They just passed us in one ranking of economic liberty.
(The US is now #9 in the world, & falling fast. Even parts of good ole commie China are ahead of us.)

 

[zer0]

well sweden is a great example...i'm just trying to lighten the mood.
ever been there? how about denmark or norway?
i'm married to a swede and i'm here to tell you, it's a damn good system...compared to how we live here.
health care, education, social services are to be envied, no homelessness, 18 month maternity leave, the streets are immaculate. if one is in need it's because they want to be.
the only thing i do not like about sweden are the long winter nights...
capitalism thrives on wanting more until there is nothing left.

Whaaaat??? That's a first.

how many people bought a house they couldn't afford or bought a 2nd house as an investment...? how many people had to buy 2 or 3 flat screen TV's for their home or cars that were too expensive...?
what about loosing a job and then being too stubborn and proud to take a lower paying job...and would rather collect unemployment?

Unemployment is a socialist idea. It is not inherently Capitalist.

it's this selfish existence we've become accustomed to

I agree

and now we've been spoiled to the point where it's hard to see the difference between wants and needs...and the wants have become entitlements.

Yup.

from what i can tell, capitalism says, "hey if you want it...what's stopping you from getting it?" until there is nothing left.

No, it says "Hey if you want it, there is nothing stopping you from earning it." And not until there is nothing left. Socialism does that. It says "Everyone is entitled to it. Everyone deserves it. Give it to everyone" until everything is gone. Again, a classic expample of how you are detesting 'Capitalist' ideas which are in fact offsprings of Socialist theory.

you never responded to the peasants life insurance policy companies put on their employees...a spawn of capitalism.

I don't recall it. Can you refresh my memory?

Look at the population of the countries which you have mentioned (Sweden: 9,354,462 Denmark: 5,557,709). Then look at the sheer size of the countries. They're small on all levels. Not to mention the fact that these countries have had a high quality of life for a several hundred years. Also Denmark and Sweden are pack full of Danes and Swedes. And they all tend to agree with each other. These countries have been for quite some time the prime examples of utopian like societies, but for the mere reason of their size, population, and population of their own people. (nothing against immigrants)

There are reasons these countries succeed. And there are reasons that a country with several states and BILLIONSof people cannot do this. America has 300 billion people. 50 different states with 50 different economies. The same with the EU. The same thing with the U.S.S.R. That is why it doesn't work here. It's too big. Socialism has always been proven to work with small societies, because there is society there. When you have 300 billion people, there is more than 1 society.

 

[zer0]

It's interesting that you cite Denmark.
They just might be more capitalistic than The US.
Country rankings for trade, business, fiscal, monetary, financial, labor and investment freedoms
They just past us in one ranking of economic liberty.
(The US is now #9 in the world, & falling fast. Even parts of good ole commie China are ahead of us.)

Second that.

 

[waitasec]

i'm not sure i understand how unemployment is socialistic...

my brother, for example, had his salary cut in half because the company didn't want to pay unemployment benefits by making his working environment unworkable...he ended up quitting and moved out of state because he found work else where...
how is that socialistic...?

 

[waitasec]

Second that.

peasant life insurance
is when a company buys life insurance on their employees...
when i cannot buy a fire insurance policy on my neighbors house because of my vested interest in their house burning down

 

[zer0]

It is also worth noting that Sweden and Denmark have the highest tax revenues in the WORLD. It's not like they all just get that stuff done.

(Denmark, Sweden still the highest-tax OECD countries)

 

[zer0]

i'm not sure i understand how unemployment is socialistic...

my brother, for example, had his salary cut in half because the company didn't want to pay unemployment benefits by making his working environment unworkable...he ended up quitting and moved out of state because he found work else where...
how is that socialistic...?

Taking money from someone, to redistribute the wealth to someone else... Is socialistic. For instance. I tax John so that I can pay Bill for being unemployed. There is nothing about that in Capitalist theory. That's socialist politics.

 

[Revoltingest]

i'm not sure i understand how unemployment is socialistic...

It reminds me though....unemployment insurance has always stuck in my craw. Former employees are paid to not work, & employers not
only pay the cost of this insurance, but also government overhead. I know one employer who even had to pay unemployment insurance to
a current employee, since she was laid off...but by someone else she worked for part time. Since he was her employer during her eligibility
period, he had to pay her unemployment insurance while she worked for him. She was even able to keep it despite turning down his offer
of full time work according to The MESC (the arm of Michigan which ran such things).

 

[zer0]

peasant life insurance
is when a company buys life insurance on their employees...
when i cannot buy a fire insurance policy on my neighbors house because of my vested interest in their house burning down

Whoa whoa whoa. You're saying that it is a bad thing that a Company offers to pay for life insurance for their employees? Seriously? Also, they pay for health insurance, in case the person is hurt on the job or just becomes ill. Also they sometimes offer Dental. Now, you're saying this is bad? And you're saying it makes them peasants to the company? Well how about this. Imagine if that company were the federal government.

 

[waitasec]

Look at the population of the countries which you have mentioned (Sweden: 9,354,462 Denmark: 5,557,709). Then look at the sheer size of the countries. They're small on all levels. Not to mention the fact that these countries have had a high quality of life for a several hundred years. Also Denmark and Sweden are pack full of Danes and Swedes. And they all tend to agree with each other. These countries have been for quite some time the prime examples of utopian like societies, but for the mere reason of their size, population, and population of their own people. (nothing against immigrants)

There are reasons these countries succeed. And there are reasons that a country with several states and BILLIONSof people cannot do this. America has 300 billion people. 50 different states with 50 different economies. The same with the EU. The same thing with the U.S.S.R. That is why it doesn't work here. It's too big. Socialism has always been proven to work with small societies, because there is society there. When you have 300 billion people, there is more than 1 society.

i agree...
but i also think capitalism in it's purest form is not the answer...
look at our predicament...
capitalism feeds on delusion...by manufacturing consent...

 

[waitasec]

Whoa whoa whoa. You're saying that it is a bad thing that a Company offers to pay for life insurance for their employees? Seriously? Also, they pay for health insurance, in case the person is hurt on the job or just becomes ill. Also they sometimes offer Dental. Now, you're saying this is bad? And you're saying it makes them peasants to the company? Well how about this. Imagine if that company were the federal government.

when the employee dies the company gets the $$ not the employers family.

 

[Revoltingest]

i agree...
but i also think capitalism in it's purest form is not the answer...
look at our predicament...
capitalism feeds on delusion...by manufacturing consent...

But I prefer that delusion to socialism's delusion that people will work hard even if they'll get paid for sloughing off.
In business, consent is generally something we grant to each other voluntarily.
Socialism must be imposed upon everyone...because capitalism is what happens when individuals do what they want.

 

[zer0]

i agree...
but i also think capitalism in it's purest form is not the answer...
look at our predicament...
capitalism feeds on delusion...by manufacturing consent...

Chomsky huh? I doubt that even Chomsky, would detest the fact, that the most long lasting anacrho-society was not the anarcho-syndacalists of Catalonia or any other revolution as his libertarian-socialist ideology posits but rather the Icelandic Commonwealth which endured for 300 years under a free-market system.

 

[zer0]

when the employee dies the company gets the $$ not the employers family.

I'm ignorant of this. Does the government provide this insurance or does a private company?

 

[waitasec]

Chomsky huh? I doubt that even Chomsky, would detest the fact, that the most long lasting anacrho-society was not the anarcho-syndacalists of Catalonia or any other revolution as his libertarian-socialist ideology posits but rather the Icelandic Commonwealth which endured for 300 years under a free-market system.

look at iceland now...

 

[waitasec]

I'm ignorant of this. Does the government provide this insurance or does a private company?

private...

actually it's a creepier name it's called dead peasants life insurance

Corporate-owned life insurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


edit:
http://jonathanturley.org/2009/02/2...-employer-over-dead-peasant-insurance-policy/

 

[zer0]

look at iceland now...

Yeah, 44th economic freedom, low taxes and a universal health care system? As opposed to ranking 5th on the same list in 2006 and 14th just two years later in 2008 and now 44th 2 years later in 2010? Seems like they're going towards a controlled economy. Now as for their universal health care system having 'reletively low taxes' and being 'maintained' this is a result of flat taxes where America and I think even Europe impose progressive tax systems, which are the converse of a flat tax. This creates the idea of taking from one class and giving to another. Which makes the illusion of the poor being held of the backs of the rich.


And if you're insinuating that the Icelandic commonwealth caused this then you are insinuating that the economic and governing philosophy that was replaced nearly 800 years ago caused it. Which is... Extreme to say the least.

 

[waitasec]

But I prefer that delusion to socialism's delusion that people will work hard even if they'll get paid for sloughing off.

i can see that...however, the capitalistic delusion is one that seems to create bubbles.

In business, consent is generally something we grant to each other voluntarily.
Socialism must be imposed upon everyone...because capitalism is what happens when individuals do what they want.

yes, this is true. but then the idea of the fire dept, post office, police dept, parks, libraries, public schools etc.. are ideals you you would like privatized?

 

[Revoltingest]

i can see that...however, the capitalistic delusion is one that seems to create bubbles.

As I've explained many times, we had a dysfunctional kind of regulation which exacerbated the latest housing bubble.....government subsidized low down payments & interest rates, banks being forced to lend in red lined areas, generous tax deductions for interest & property taxes, government monetary policy which maintains constant inflation & tax bracket creep. They all raised housing prices. The prior bank crisis was caused in part by a lack of regulation of real estate appraisers, who would kite values for the borrower. Good regulation which enhances stability & flexibility is essential in any system. Moreover, homer ownership limits mobility, so when we do have economic upheaval, it's difficult (hard to sell) & costly (commissions & transfer taxes) to move to where the jobs are. It could be viewed as impossible when your house is underwater, since you cannot sell for enuf to pay off the loan.

yes, this is true. but then the idea of the fire dept, post office, police dept, parks, libraries, public schools etc.. are ideals you you would like privatized?

Privatization works where it works, & doesn't where it doesn't. Many parks & schools are. Even cops are. Visit Detroit public schools, & you might become a believer in privatization.

 

[zer0]

private...

actually it's a creepier name it's called dead peasants life insurance

Corporate-owned life insurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


edit:
Peasant Uprising: Widow Sues Late Husband’s Employer Over “Dead Peasant” Insurance Policy « JONATHAN TURLEY

Well then who gives a crap if a company wants to spend money on insurance so that if they're employee dies they get money from another company. What do you want to do, tell a company that they can't spend their moneyon a service from another company? YOU as an employee has the choice to work for that company.