Let's talk about Hell

[URAVIP2ME]

I mean, i don't believe hell which people "really" burn furiously. Hell is about feeling guilty. That is what i understand. Evildoers just regret when they are in hell.
Is it elaborative now?

Jesus was in the Bible hell. -Acts 2 vs27,31.
Jesus did not believe he would be burning because Jesus taught the dead sleep the deep sleep of death [RIP] until they are resurrected. -John11vs11-14

So the Biblical hell is just mankind's common grave that will end up empty.
Rev 20vs13,14 shows all in hell are 'delivered up' resurrected or restored back to life during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth.
-Acts 24v15

As far as feeling regrets: Psalm 146v4 says: at death thoughts perish.
The dead are Not conscious [Ecc 9v5] and sleep.-Psalm 6v5;13v3; 115v17.

According to Psalm 37 vs9,38 evildoers will be 'cut off'.
'Cut off' from any future life anywhere whether in heaven, or on earth as Proverbs 2vs21,22 brings to our attention.

So evildoers are not in hell just as Satan is not in hell but destroyed or annihilated forever.- Hebrews 2v14 B; Psalm 92v7.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I will give you some relevant scriptures from which you can fit together true biblical facts which traditional christianity has failed to teach.
Gen.2v7, man became a living soul and therefore IS a soul.
Ezek.18v4,20, the soul that sins shall die , in other words man is mortal and will die unless he repents.
The final death will be in the lake of fire which was originally prepared for the devil and his angels Mat.25v41 not for man. Unrepentant sinners will be cast into it but obviously will burn up seeing they are physical and mortal. Only sinful spirits shall be eternally punished because they can not die. Sharing the same fire or punishment does not mean man is spirit that would survive death.
Only the repentant, converted man will become spirit and go on into eternal life.
Rev.19v20, 20v10, 21v8 and lastly Mal.4v3.
other religions may teach something different but this is a christian view of it.

According to Romans 6v23 what is the price sin pays? Isn't it death?

The lake of fire is: 'death' according to the definition at Rev 20v14.
Not just death from so-called natural causes but 'second death' meaning a death with no resurrection anywhere to heaven or on earth.

Isn't Satan a sinner? Being a sinner then Satan must pay the price of sin which is death according to Rom 6v23. But Satan's death is 'destruction in second death ' by Christ Jesus according to Hebrews 2v14 B.
Satan like those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 have committed the unforgivable sin and must pay with the loss of future life.

Do the living 'sheep' of Matthew 25v32 become spirit or do they continue alive to live right here on earth right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth with the prospect of having eternal life right here on a paradisaic earth?

-Rev 21vs4,5; 1st Cor 15v26; Isaiah 25v8; Acts 24v15

 

[Beta]

URAVIP"ME , Yes the second death is eternal the price paid for sin - don't think I said otherwise. What I did say was that they will not be eternally tormented.
However I have revised my understanding of satan who will not (as previously thought) live for ever (even though spirit) but will also be destroyed in the second death.
And yes hell (the grave) will be emptied out one way or the other. But the bodily resurrected shall not live in human body for ever on earth. The purpose of their resurrection is to learn about Christ who died for them and has become their Saviour. When they have accepted him they too will become eternal spirit-beings. There will be no human flesh left on this planet.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

URAVIP"ME , Yes the second death is eternal the price paid for sin - don't think I said otherwise. What I did say was that they will not be eternally tormented.
However I have revised my understanding of satan who will not (as previously thought) live for ever (even though spirit) but will also be destroyed in the second death.
And yes hell (the grave) will be emptied out one way or the other. But the bodily resurrected shall not live in human body for ever on earth. The purpose of their resurrection is to learn about Christ who died for them and has become their Saviour. When they have accepted him they too will become eternal spirit-beings. There will be no human flesh left on this planet.

Do you recall who Jesus said would inherit the earth?________
-Matt 5v5
Jesus was referring to old Psalm 37v11.
Not only will the humble meek inherit the earth, verse 29 says how long those righteous ones will reside on earth which is: forever.

Wasn't God's original purpose that obedient human Adam remain alive right here on earth forever?
God did not change his mind. Satan interrupted, but Satan did not change God's purpose for the earth as Isaiah [45v18] says:
the established earth was not created in vain but formed to be inhabited.
Inhabited by obedient people.
What is the answer to the question at Psalm 104v5?_______

Those that are resurrected to heaven do not experience second death.
Those that are resurrected on earth do not die again unless they are destroyed in second death. So that means since the resurrected do not die again from inherited sin, but they will remain alive on earth because death will be no more according to Rev 21vs4,5.
Since no one goes to heaven to die in heaven then the death problem is right here on earth. Our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing according to 1st Cor 15v26.
Nothing means death stops.
Stops forever.

Since the earth abides forever [Ecc 1v4 B] then that also stands to reason God did not place man here only temporary. Psalm [78v69 B] also mentions the earth is established forever. Psalm [93v1 B; 1st Chron 16v30] the world is established and is stable and can not be moved. It is those of Psalm [92v7] that will be destroyed or annihilated forever, not the humble meek.

So like Adam at his creation, the 'sheep' of Matt [25v32] who do not experience death, and those experiencing an earthly resurrection will remain alive right here on a paradisaic earth as was the original Garden of Eden on earth.
Doesn't Proverbs [2vs21,22] contrast who will remain and who will be removed from the earth?

Do you recall the promise to Abraham?
-Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18
All families of' earth' and all nations of 'earth' will be blessed.
Blessed with healing or curing.- Rev 22v2.
Since they will be healed or cured then they will not die but remain alive in perfect human health forever right here on earth.
-Isa 33v24

 

[james2ko]

But Satan's death is 'destruction in second death 'by Christ Jesus according to Hebrews 2v14 B.

Heb 2:14 Because God's children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could He die, and only by dying could He break the power of the devil, who had the power of death (NLT).​

1. This simply states when Christ died for the sins of men, He qualified to dethrone and replace Satan who introduced death to mankind. You may be reading too much into the text if you imply satan will be destroyed in the second death.

Isn't Satan a sinner? Being a sinner then Satan must pay the price of sin which is death according to Rom 6v23. But Satan's death is 'destruction in second death ' Satan like those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 have committed the unforgivable sin and must pay with the loss of future life.

2. Scripture indicates satan will not be destroyed. The second death applies to physical humans not spirit beings. God will not (not that He cannot) destroy a spirit being. The bible tells us satan will be tormented in the lake of fire forever (Rev 20:10). This is far greater punishment than that of physical humans in the lake of fire who will simply burn up and cease to exist.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Christians... on Christmas... debating hell...

 

[outhouse]

Christians... on Christmas... debating hell...

they have been funny all day they all ignored the statement below since it deals with facts


Yes ive learned very few people read the bible properly

Those that do interpret it for there own needs.

Hell did not start out hell in the bible,

Its started out sheol, hades and gehenna

sheol means grave, so the first use in the bible was that of when you die you go to the grave.

hades myth was borrowed by hebrews and its the god of underworld but again used as a term for grave.

This is where fiery hell starts with the place "gehenna"

there was a grabage pit outside of the city and the fires were said to burn 24/7 and those who died in sin were said to be burned there in "gehenna".

after gehenna the term hell is used with all its torment.


Hell is fiction, thats what you should have all learned. its easy to see its progression in fiction if you know the bible

 

[Beta]

Christians... on Christmas... debating hell...

It is all part and parcel of human existence.
Don't forget - some of us do not observe /recognise pagan xmas. There are no biblical instructions to keep it whatever !!!!!!!!

 

[Beta]

Heb 2:14 Because God's children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could He die, and only by dying could He break the power of the devil, who had the power of death (NLT).
​

1. This simply states when Christ died for the sins of men, He qualified to dethrone and replace Satan who introduced death to mankind. You may be reading too much into the text if you imply satan will be destroyed in the second death.

2. Scripture indicates satan will not be destroyed. The second death applies to physical humans not spirit beings. God will not (not that He cannot) destroy a spirit being. The bible tells us satan will be tormented in the lake of fire forever (Rev 20:10). This is far greater punishment than that of physical humans in the lake of fire who will simply burn up and cease to exist.

I am non too happy with my revised viewpoint re satan and need to look into this further. What scriptures do you suggest ? :help:

 

[james2ko]

they have been funny all day they all ignored the statement below since it deals with facts

Yes ive learned very few people read the bible properly Those that do interpret it for there own needs. Hell did not start out hell in the bible,
Its started out sheol, hades and gehenna sheol means grave, so the first use in the bible was that of when you die you go to the grave. hades myth was borrowed by hebrews and its the god of underworld but again used as a term for grave. This is where fiery hell starts with the place "gehenna" there was a grabage pit outside of the city and the fires were said to burn 24/7 and those who died in sin were said to be burned there in "gehenna". after gehenna the term hell is used with all its torment.

Many of us are well aware of these terms and their significance to our faith. You seem to be well-informed of the different biblical terms for the word "hell" yet you missed one? The bible actually mentions four...

Hell is fiction, thats what you should have all learned. its easy to see its progression in fiction if you know the bible

We appreciate your "opinion". But how could we take it seriously if you don't even know all the words used in the bible for the term hell?

 

[james2ko]

I am non too happy with my revised viewpoint re satan and need to look into this further. What scriptures do you suggest ? :help:

It depends on what you want to know. I cannot promise I will have all the answers. But I will gladly share the knowledge God has graciously shared with me. (Deut 29:29)

 

[Beta]

.
2. Scripture indicates satan will not be destroyed. The second death applies to physical humans not spirit beings. God will not (not that He cannot) destroy a spirit being. The bible tells us satan will be tormented in the lake of fire forever (Rev 20:10). This is far greater punishment than that of physical humans in the lake of fire who will simply burn up and cease to exist.

This is what I have believed for the past 30 years but recently there has been mention by many that satan will eventually be destroyed.
As I understand scripture there will come a time when there will be no more Humans on the earth so would there in fact be further need or use for satan ?
I have another question re 'spirit '. Since there is spirit (as in man) apart from Holy Spirit (as is God) could that inferior or basic spirit not also be in angels (satan) which could then cease to have an individual presence as would sinful/unconverted man ???

 

[look3467]

Who is responsible for placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?

Definitively not Adam or human kind.

And for what reason was it placed there....if all was perfect to start with?

Why was it not left that way?

You think........ah....maybe God made a mistake?

Nah....God should have known Adam was going to fall.....after all is God not all knowing?

When we can answer those questions with understanding, then we shall see God's purpose in all He did, including what hell means to us today.

We have become so occupied with a single subject (Hell) that the works of God are clouded up to where we can not see Him clearly.

First, settle in your mind what the works of God are, then base your conclusions on them and not on what mankind thinks they ought to be.

Blessings, AJ

 

[outhouse]

We appreciate your "opinion". But how could we take it seriously if you don't even know all the words used in the bible for the term hell?

I didnt mention tartaro because its not a place for mans soul, thus it doesnt apply.

Abaddon is often used the same as sheol but describes a mythical entity not a place

and dont start with purgatory because that was never ment for hell.

Ge hinom, Ennom are all words for gehenna

please enlighten me LOL

 

[james2ko]

This is what I have believed for the past 30 years but recently there has been mention by many that satan will eventually be destroyed.

Out of curiosity, what biblical text is being used to challenge your long time belief?

As I understand scripture there will come a time when there will be no more Humans on the earth so would there in fact be further need or use for satan ?

Scripture plainly and irrefutably tells us angels cannot die (Luke 20:35-36). Ultimately, satan and his demons will be put in a "spiritual" prison coined "the lake of fire" where they will be tormented forever (compare Rev 20:10 with Mat 25:41). One can conclude they will have no contact with the Spirit beings dwelling in the New Heavens and New Earth. In addition, if satan is destroyed, what would be the difference between his punishment and that of unrepentant physical humans who were given much less power?

I have another question re 'spirit '. Since there is spirit (as in man) apart from Holy Spirit (as is God) could that inferior or basic spirit not also be in angels (satan) which could then cease to have an individual presence as would sinful/unconverted man ???

Scripture tells us angels "are" spirits (1 Pet 3:19). No indication in scripture that angels have a spirit. It does mention that all flesh (man and animal) have a spirit (Num 27:16; Job 32:8; Ecc 3:21) albeit with different functions.

 

[james2ko]

I didnt mention tartaro because its not a place for mans soul, thus it doesnt apply.

Abaddon is often used the same as sheol but describes a mythical entity not a place

and dont start with purgatory because that was never ment for hell.

Ge hinom, Ennom are all words for gehenna

please enlighten me LOL

Isn't Google awesome

 

[Beta]

Out of curiosity, what biblical text is being used to challenge your long time belief?
Scripture plainly and irrefutably tells us angels cannot die (Luke 20:35-36). Ultimately, satan and his demons will be put in a "spiritual" prison coined "the lake of fire" where they will be tormented forever (compare Rev 20:10 with Mat 25:41). One can conclude they will have no contact with the Spirit beings dwelling in the New Heavens and New Earth. In addition, if satan is destroyed, what would be the difference between his punishment and that of unrepentant physical humans who were given much less power?
Scripture tells us angels "are" spirits (1 Pet 3:19). No indication in scripture that angels have a spirit. It does mention that all flesh (man and animal) have a spirit (Num 27:16; Job 32:8; Ecc 3:21) albeit with different functions.

Thank you james for your reply. Ezek.28v18,19 has come up and on checking it out it would seem to suggest satan will meet his end - like 'burn-out' from within ? (that would not be a quick end and be a sort of prolonged punishment ?)
I checked out Lk.20v35,36 and I believe those verses to ref.to the children of the resurrection who wouldn't die any more rather than the angels.Not that angels can die like we do but could they not cease to exist when God no longer sustains their existence ? And yes I know they are spirit (my mistake) but they are not Holy Spirit like God Himself.Are they not compared to wind similar as the spirit in man blown into nostrils by God ?
What I'm getting at is that there is spirit apart from the HOLY Spirit which does not give eternal selfexisting life for ever whether it referres to man or angel ???
We know God has a purpose for everything and angels also serve a purpose (to assist man in his conversion Heb.1v14.) So will there be further need for them (esp.the fallen ones) once God has accomplished his plan for human salvation ? (just asking)

 

[outhouse]

Isn't Google awesome

no wiki is, and i know that link well.

it doesnt change the facts that the modern day people associate with hell is fiction.

and it doesnt change this below.

Yes ive learned very few people read the bible properly

Those that do interpret it for there own needs.

Hell did not start out hell in the bible,

Its started out sheol, hades and gehenna

sheol means grave, so the first use in the bible was that of when you die you go to the grave.

hades myth was borrowed by hebrews and its the god of underworld but again used as a term for grave.

This is where fiery hell starts with the place "gehenna"

there was a grabage pit outside of the city and the fires were said to burn 24/7 and those who died in sin were said to be burned there in "gehenna".

after gehenna the term hell is used with all its torment.


Hell is fiction, thats what you should have all learned. its easy to see its progression in fiction if you know the bible

 

[Pegg]

Ya gotta help me out here, is poor Ed going to burn forever or not? I'm intrigued

Danny, you need to know only one bible truth that can put hell to bed forever.

The truth is as Beta explained, man is mortal. There is no existence in an afterlife according to scripture.
Psalm 146:4 “His spirit [or, breath] goes out, he goes back to his ground, in that day his thoughts do perish.”

Eccl 9:5 “For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, . . . for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.”

Eccl 3:19-20 “For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [breath], so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.”

Ezekiel 18:4 “The soul that sins shall die.”


Man is unwilling to face the fact that he is mortal and will die so they have buried this truth in the lie of eternal heaven or hell. Their religions teach that the human soul is immortal and that the soul will live on after the body dies. They claim that there is consciousness after death but the Bible does not say it because God does not lie to us the way man lies to us.

Believe God because he is truthful... he tells us like it is. Adam sinned and was told that the consequences would be death... he wasnt told he would live on in a different form or would live forever. No he was told that he would loose his life.


So as there is no life after death, then it stands to reason that there is also no eternal torment after death and in turn hell becomes nothing more then our graves where we will exist as dust until such a time as God chooses to bring us back to life.

 

[james2ko]

I checked out Lk.20v35,36 and I believe those verses to ref.to the children of the resurrection who wouldn't die any more rather than the angels.

Perhaps the NLT will clear things up:

Luk 20:35-36 But in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 36 And they will never die again. In this respect they will be like angels. They are children of God and children of the resurrection.

Thank you james for your reply. Ezek.28v18,19 has come up and on checking it out it would seem to suggest satan will meet his end - like 'burn-out' from within ? (that would not be a quick end and be a sort of prolonged punishment ?)

Great care must be taken to interpret these verses with discernment. It is clear that at times Ezekiel describes this king in terms that could not apply to a mere human. At other times, He refers to the physical King of Tyre.

The subject of Ezekiel 28 shifts to the king of Tyre [Lucifer] from the middle of verse 12 through verse17. Some think that verse 18 reveals that Satan is to be destroyed by fire. However, verse 18 actually shifts back to the discussion about the "prince" (human king) of Tyre. We know this because the context of verse 18 clearly ties back in with verse 5 of this same chapter, where this reference in both verses pertained to the prosperous sea traffic that brought much of the wealth and power to the human king of Tyre. The focus, which shifted away from the prince, starting in verse 12, shifts back to him in verses 18 to 19.

Note that the Prince of Tyre referred to a human prince who is a type or forerunner of an end-time fulfillment yet to occur. From Ezekiel 28:2, we read of the Prince of Tyre: "…Because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet you are a man, and not God, though you set your heart as the heart of God."

We read of this same prophecy in II Thessalonians 2:4 concerning the prophesied man of sin or son of perdition: "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." These verses clearly identify the same prophetic figure—the future false prophet discussed in Revelation 13:13-18 whom ironically will suffer the same punishment as the physical King of Tyre (Rev 20:10).

In summary, the physical king of Tyre was defeated and killed as prophesied, and is still dead today. Ezekiel 28:18-19 refers to a prophecy that has already been fulfilled.

To further drive home the point, in context analysis from other sections of scripture clear up these questionable verses. Luk 20:35-36 indicates satan cannot die; Rev 20:10 plainly states satan will be tormented and not burned up or destroyed. Therefore, we can conclude Eze 28:18-19 cannot be referring to satan but to the physical King to Tyre!

Not that angels can die like we do but could they not cease to exist when God no longer sustains their existence ? And yes I know they are spirit (my mistake) but they are not Holy Spirit like God Himself.Are they not compared to wind similar as the spirit in man blown into nostrils by God? What I'm getting at is that there is spirit apart from the HOLY Spirit which does not give eternal selfexisting life for ever whether it referres to man or angel ???We know God has a purpose for everything and angels also serve a purpose (to assist man in his conversion Heb.1v14.) So will there be further need for them (esp.the fallen ones) once God has accomplished his plan for human salvation ? (just asking)

It is fun to speculate on certain aspects of biblical doctrine. But in order to make it an integral part of our belief system, it has to irrefutably line up with scripture. Let us heed the words of Paul:

"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." (Col 2:8)
​

If God has plans to one day eliminate the need for angels, He has chosen not reveal it. Therefore, it must remain as speculation and not allow it to deter our core convictions.