Let There Be Light and There Was Light

[Ben Masada]

First, general questions concerning prophecy and Israel as a whole.

Do you believe that God literally allowed Israel as a nation to go into captivity,etc., in the past due to disobedience -or do you believe prophecies concerning such are not literal?

I believe that the prophet got his Divine inspiration in a vision or dream, according to Numbers 12:6. Then, he put down in writing that God had allowed Israel to be sent to captivity. But that God, literally, told him that He was sending Israel into exile, no. And the reason for exiles are two: First, local injustices among the people, and second to bring the knowledge of God unto the nations. (Ezek. 20:41) By means of Israel, God has chosen to reveal His glory in the sight of the nations. As you know, we are against active proselytization. So, exiles are provided, so that we get out there among the Gentiles from time to time.

As you believe that the prophecies I mentioned before do not apply to modern times, do you believe that God still makes decisions concerning modern Israel based on its adherance to his laws?

Not literally. Through the Scriptures. After the New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People, we no longer need, as in the ancient Covenant, to be taught how to know the Lord, because we have His Word with us in our own heart. (Jer. 31:34; Deut. 30:11-14) However, the same decisions concerning ancient Israel apply today.

Do you believe the formation of the modern state of Israel was prophesied in the old testament? (Such as the following -or anywhere else in the old testament?)

Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

This is metaphorical of a strong Israel when exile is not in the horizon. If you remember the period of the Hasmonians, when the Jews returned from exile in Babylon, Israel became so strong as to beat back great nations like Greece, Egypt and all the neighbours around. But with time we became hostile with each other inside and, metaphorically, as God is concerned, and literally, according to History, time had arrived to bring the knowledge of God to the world at large, and the Romans were used to make that happen by spreading the Jews throughout the world.

The above seems to be exactly what has happened with the modern state of Israel thus far.

Yes, history repeats itself. God's blessings and punishments are conditional. For the time being, we are a strong nation; but we could be exiled again if we keep monopolizing the Word of God and not sharing It with the wold. I believe I am doing my part, but most of my coreligionaries are adopting the same policy to keep the nations away from the truth as if God gave It only to Israel, according to Psalm 147:19,20 to be kept with Israel only.

 

[Etritonakin]

The main reason for my questions is that I have great concern for Israel, as well as the U.S. -where I reside -and their allies. I want to understand so that I might make what I say more acceptable -and avoid angering some, as the subjects I discuss often stir up strong emotion.

I have firsthand knowledge of the things which now threaten the U.S.,Israel and their allies.
I have tried to make these things known for the sake of these nations, but the reaction has been less than ideal. Those who threaten these nations are far more attentive than these nations, and act through my countrymen -as well as those for whom I have concern. They set us against each other. I am one man, and they stir up many -making my words void in their minds, and running a smear campaign -even through them. Even where there is good sentiment toward me, they manipulate it against me toward their purpose. They have an extreme (apparently unbelievable or incomprehensible to most) amount of control over many within these nations -even affecting policy, etc. I have seen that America does not understand the full scope of the threat -and I have also seen links to Israel and other allies. I do not know many specifics concerning how it is affecting Israel, but I know that it is. They "have people" by various means in governments, but also everywhere else. They govern more so through the people -by fear and manipulation of beliefs, passions, etc. -and by cultivating various underworld and even occult groups. They undermine the government (even military) by breaking the chain of command -by all of these means. They have also been involved with designing and building the network of people and technologies we rely upon for our security. They know it well, and even have control over it -though they have not used such fully as yet. Here in America, at least, they have gained control of various underworld groups, and have caused what I call a "wave of fear" -by which they control individuals, and set up those who are willing to harm their countrymen in positions of power and authority -directing them against those who know what is happening or might be a threat in some other way.

Knowing what is happening is not enough. What can be done about it is most important.
"Never Again!" -this is why I have refused many offers of comfort for silence -offered to me by the enemy through my countrymen, who constantly harm my family and those who know the things I know. The enemy of which I speak are those who perpetrated the holocaust, and they are setting up another -which will make the first insignificant by comparison -and are using their victims to build the apparatus by which it will happen -and IS HAPPENING -to them! They build it IN THE NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY!

I KNOW that God is about to ALLOW -even CAUSE terrible things to happen to these nations. I have also seen why. If some do not believe these prophecies apply directly or literally, they should at least know that they describe what is now happening exactly. If they do not see that -they simply do not see -and where there is no vision, the people fail.

It is when I say that terrible things will happen, and especially when I say that God will allow and even cause them -and even more so that these nations might be doing something wrong -that I am seen as the enemy, traitorous -even a blasphemer. I defend myself, my family and innocents -and they blame me further for the trouble they cause.

However, I KNOW that there is only one way to avert these disasters -and that is by acting, as nations and individuals, in a manner which does not stir God to anger! If one does not believe the following is not specifically about what is happening now, they should at least realize that the exact same thing applies to our present situation...

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.

...at the very least, we should realize that it is ALWAYS a good idea to not stir God to anger by our ways -and especially when much of the world wouldn't mind seeing our demise! It is also always good to trust in him -not in ourselves or our own might. These are not easy things given the secular nature of nations, but right ways can be promoted due to their own merits -even without mentioning God to those who do not want to hear such things.

I will post the specific prophecies soon.

 

[Ben Masada]

By Pentecost I meant the "feast of weeks" of the old testament. I'm not aware if some Christians keep what they call Pentecost on some other day, but the "Pentecost" of Acts 2:1 in the new testament is the very same as the feast of weeks in the old testament.

Sorry, but you are mistaken here. The Christian Pentecost has nothing to do with Shavuot. Then, Christians started about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. And Paul was the one to start with Christianity in the city of Antioch. (Acts 11:26) So, the "feast of weeks" in Acts 2:1 is a Christian interpolation added when the NT was put into writing 50+ years after Jesus had been gone.

Many "Christians" don't realize (or refuse to acknowledge) that Christ, the apostles -and even gentiles in the new testament church many years after Christ's death -kept the Sabbath -not Sunday -and Passover, days of unleavened bread, Pentecost, feast of trumpets, day of atonement, feast of tabernacles and last great day of the old testament.

I don't believe that Christians kept the Sabbath or the Jewish festivals. Paul made it very clear that to keep the Sabbath, or any other day, or no day at all, was the same for the Lord, as long as one is fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5,6) He considered the sabbath days and all the Jewish festivals as shadows of things to come. (Col. 2:16,17)

 

[Ben Masada]

Youve got to be kidding
So your saying that God sent a bunch of rebels who were sinning against him to teach the rest of the world how to follow and obey him.
"Do as I say, not as I do."

Well, if you don't believe it, it's because you don't believe in the Scriptures. Read Ezekiel 20:41. It says in there that it is by means of Israel that God reveals His glory in the sight of the nations.

According to Daniel 9:24 exiles are also determined upon our People to finish our transgression and to make an end of our sins, so that we be reconciled back with our God.

Then, according to Isaiah 1:18,19, after we reason together with the Lord, our sins become as white as snow. Even if they are crimson red, they become as wool.

That's the "bunch of rebels" in your words, whom the Lord has given His Word to, instead of to any other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20)

Last but not least, don't be too fast in judging us because, of the other nations, including yours, God will eventually make an end of them; but of Israel He will only chastise as we deserve. Read Jeremiah 46:28.

 

[allright]

Well, if you don't believe it, it's because you don't believe in the Scriptures. Read Ezekiel 20:41. It says in there that it is by means of Israel that God reveals His glory in the sight of the nations.

According to Daniel 9:24 exiles are also determined upon our People to finish our transgression and to make an end of our sins, so that we be reconciled back with our God.

Daniel 9:24 is speaking of Jesus dying as the perfect sacrifice for sins and doing away with the old covenant.
The Talmud states that for 40 years before the Temple was destroyed the lot always came up in the High Priest left hand and the crimson cord remained red showing God no longer accepted the Yom Kippur sacfrifice as the atonement for the sins of the nation. 70-40=30AD the year Jesus died and rose again.
Jeremiah "Behold the days come when I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel"
Israel will be reconciled to God when Jesus is revealed to them as the Messiah
(Zachariah 12:10)
I do agree with you that God has brought the Jewish people back to Israel and that the nation of Israel will never cease to be a nation again
Our disagreement is wether or not Jesus is the Messiah

 

[outhouse]

I will post the specific prophecies soon.

Etritonakin what makes you a self proclaimed prophet ????????????

AND what does it have to do with this thread?????????????????????????????

when I say that God will allow and even cause them

How can anyone possible have a rational conversation with someone who makes comments like this?

Do you see any sanity in this statement?

There so many people that want to play landover baptist here or "true christians" i cant tell if thisis all humor or if your dangerous to yourself or others.

I have firsthand knowledge of the things which now threaten the U.S.,Israel and their allies

is this a threat to my or anyone else's family in the US ???

IF YOU HAVE A POINT, MAKE IT, your wearing thin with the threats

 

[Etritonakin]

I have lost family members to Nazis working through my countrymen. Nothing about this is a joke. I'm a Jew and know they are about to do it again.

I'm not threatening anyone. I have simply seen the enemy at work firsthand -and also how it relates to prophecy. I'm beginning to think you are unable to understand the English language. I made absolutely no threats in any post. I'm simply telling people what is about to happen. They are free to disagree -even to think I'm insane.
I have been quite clear. I am not a self-proclaimed prophet -I simply read the bible and see it happening -and know thereby what is about to happen. It's there for anyone to read. You seem to not like me, personally -are you ok? Do I irk you for some reason other than that I am posting religious things in a religious forum?????

This is a religious forum -you need to get used to discussion of prophecy, etc.
Also realize that the world does not revolve around you. You are free to ignore every one of my posts.
The things I have seen happening are a danger to every family in the U.S. -Yes. I will discuss them whenever and wherever I see fit.
You'll feel much better -and better things will happen to you in life -if you stop trying to control what cannot be controlled.

Through my personal life, I just so happened to witness Nazis, Islamic extremists, occultists, spooks of various natures, etc... being about their business.
I am responsibly warning people of what I have witnessed and experienced -because I am concerned for them -even you, though you're getting to be a bit much.
I am also telling people how it relates to prophecy -and they are free to disagree. I am still responsible to tell it. Some have thought it best not to tell many -but they need to know in order to make correct decisions -or at least have the opportunity.

Would it not have been easier to simply say "wow -this guy's a dumb***" -and then be about your business? Your obsession with me is not healthy for you. You sound very discombobulated. You will see that what I say is correct soon enough, but why not just relax in the meantime?

I find it quite strange -and telling -that those who remain silent in fear are rewarded, and those who speak out are targeted.
Loose lips sink ships -unless you're the radar operator -and I saw a really huge blip! I didn't try to see it, I just did. Then I saw people doing the wrong things in order to avoid colliding with the ever-closer blip, so I felt the need to tell them about that, too.

It's not a bout me making a point -I'm gonna make a whole buncha points whether you like it or not -it's about you inappropriately overstepping your bounds.
I wish you the best, but I'm going to iggy you again -please respect people's right to make as many points as they deem necessary.

Eze 33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
Eze 33:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
Eze 33:4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
Eze 33:5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
Eze 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

 

[Etritonakin]

Sorry, but you are mistaken here. The Christian Pentecost has nothing to do with Shavuot. Then, Christians started about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. And Paul was the one to start with Christianity in the city of Antioch. (Acts 11:26) So, the "feast of weeks" in Acts 2:1 is a Christian interpolation added when the NT was put into writing 50+ years after Jesus had been gone.



I don't believe that Christians kept the Sabbath or the Jewish festivals. Paul made it very clear that to keep the Sabbath, or any other day, or no day at all, was the same for the Lord, as long as one is fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5,6) He considered the sabbath days and all the Jewish festivals as shadows of things to come. (Col. 2:16,17)

I disagree with you about Pentecost, but there is no point in going on about it.

Paul did not say that. You are correct that God's holy days are a shadow of things to come -as their very purpose is to teach God's plan, but this is not the same as saying they are not to be observed for this reason.

Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

..is very much NOT the same as saying "keep whatever day you want to as long as you are convinced". It says let no man judge you in respect to these, but God is another story altogether.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

...means among God's holy days. This is not license to keep any day.
It very much does NOT say and does NOT mean that "to keep the Sabbath, or any other day, or no day at all, was the same for the Lord". That's not what it says at all.

God gave the Sabbath COMMANDMENT -and it is STILL a sign between him and his people -as are the holy days. Issues did become confused after Christ died, due to persecution, but the NT church did keep the holy days given in the old testament!

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Joh 7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
(This does not differentiate between Jews and Christians, but between the house of Judah and the house of Israel -notice they kept the feast.)

Joh 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
Joh 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
Joh 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
Joh 7:9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

..and we'll ALL be keeping the feast of tabernacles soon!

Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
---------
God has put Israel through a lot -but he will soon make them a blessing to the whole earth!

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

 

[outhouse]

You seem to not like me

I dont know you well enough to make a decision.

I'm not threatening anyone

that is good, your getting out there a little further then most people so you must realize this raises red flags.

and know thereby what is about to happen

there in lies the problem, your using a 3000 year old book that could be fiction to prophesize

you need to get used to discussion of prophecy

telling me what I need to do AND telling me you know what will happen is IT not being a self proclaimed prophet?


People can take the bible and find hidden codes if they look hard enough and want to believe, they can waist there lives chasing their tail,,, I find you no different using 3000 year old text to imagine a connection.

I dont have a problem with you per say. I do notice you joining threads to spread YOUR prophecies without regards to the topic at hand, your going off topic for your own personal needs to sell your ideas.

 

[Ben Masada]

Well, if you don't believe it, it's because you don't believe in the Scriptures. Read Ezekiel 20:41. It says in there that it is by means of Israel that God reveals His glory in the sight of the nations.

According to Daniel 9:24 exiles are also determined upon our People to finish our transgression and to make an end of our sins, so that we be reconciled back with our God.

Daniel 9:24 is speaking of Jesus dying as the perfect sacrifice for sins and doing away with the old covenant.
The Talmud states that for 40 years before the Temple was destroyed the lot always came up in the High Priest left hand and the crimson cord remained red showing God no longer accepted the Yom Kippur sacfrifice as the atonement for the sins of the nation. 70-40=30AD the year Jesus died and rose again.
Jeremiah "Behold the days come when I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel"
Israel will be reconciled to God when Jesus is revealed to them as the Messiah
(Zachariah 12:10)
I do agree with you that God has brought the Jewish people back to Israel and that the nation of Israel will never cease to be a nation again
Our disagreement is wether or not Jesus is the Messiah

Well, this is an argument very easy to be solved. Jesus was not the Messiah. The Messiah is Israel, the Jewish People. Now, there is a small difference between us on this issue of who is the Messiah. When you say that Jesus is the Messiah, you have nowhere in the Scriptures to prove that Jesus was the Messiah. I mean the Scriptures that Jesus considered the Word of God. But when I say that Israel is the Messiah, I can prove to you in those Scriptures.

It is a consensus, even among Christians, that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah. Well, my friend, the Prophet identifies that Servant with Israel by name, so that no one be tempted to assume that he is referring to an individual. Read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. Now, if you wanna go logical with this, an individual is born, lives his span of life, and eventually dies. Are we to expect a Messiah in every generation? Of course not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever emanating light unto the nations. That's Israel, the Collective. Jeremiah says in 31:35-37 that Israel remains as a People before the Lord forever. I Kings 13:36 says that Judah was promised to David that it will remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever, and be, according to Isaiah 42:6 as light for the Gentiles. Do you still think Jesus is the Messiah? If you do, prove it.

 

[Ben Masada]

I disagree with you about Pentecost, but there is no point in going on about it.

You are right. All you can do is to disagree.

Paul did not say that. You are correct that God's holy days are a shadow of things to come -as their very purpose is to teach God's plan, but this is not the same as saying they are not to be observed for this reason.

Paul did it. I am correct at that. You seem not to have understood Colossians 2:16,17. Nothing could be more clear.

Col 2:16

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Here, Paul was not only abolishing the Sabbath and festivals but also kasherut. All against Jesus' own assertion that he did not abolish
anything.

...means among God's holy days. This is not license to keep any day.
It very much does NOT say and does NOT mean that "to keep the Sabbath, or any other day, or no day at all, was the same for the Lord". That's not what it says at all.

It precisely does mean what I said. Again, you did not understand the text. In orther words here is what it says: He that keeps a day, to the Lord he does; and he that does not keep a day, to the Lord he does not. To any one who has a mind to understand, this means that Paul eliminated the obligation to keep any day to the Lord as long as he was in peace with his conscience. And that no one should judge another in these matters.

God gave the Sabbath COMMANDMENT -and it is STILL a sign between him and his people -as are the holy days. Issues did become confused after Christ died, due to persecution, but the NT church did keep the holy days given in the old testament!

No, you insist on being wrong. The Sect of the Nazarenes was the group that kept on keeping the Sabbaths and holydays, according to Matthew 5:19. Christians started already with the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology in Antioch about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. (Acts 11:26)

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Those were not Gentiles but Jewish converts by the Nazarenes. Gentiles are not found in synagogues.

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

That day was no Passover. In that year, Passover fell on Friday evening on the 14th of Nisan. Jesus was already in the tomb. So, he missed that Passover.

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is Replacement Theology. "...not with old leaven."

Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

It is against the Scriptures that one individual should die a death of atonemen for another. (Ezek. 18:20)

Joh 7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.

(This does not differentiate between Jews and Christians, but between the house of Judah and the house of Israel -notice they kept the feast.)

No, they did not. And I see no difference between the House of Judah and the House of Israel with regards to the observance of the festivals. Quote your assertions

.

.and we'll ALL be keeping the feast of tabernacles soon![

It could be, but only after conversion to Judaism. Gentiles are not under such an obligation. They have the Noahide laws to observe.

Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

But after conversion to Judaism, according to Isaiah 56:1-8.
---------

God has put Israel through a lot -but he will soon make them a blessing to the whole earth!

They have been either through exiles or from Jerusalem. (Isa. 2:2,3; Dan. 9:24)

Act 3:25

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

The seed of Abraham is Israel from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Gen. 17:7-10)

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

This prophecy has been fulfilled today.

 

[allright]

Well, this is an argument very easy to be solved. Jesus was not the Messiah. The Messiah is Israel, the Jewish People. Now, there is a small difference between us on this issue of who is the Messiah. When you say that Jesus is the Messiah, you have nowhere in the Scriptures to prove that Jesus was the Messiah. I mean the Scriptures that Jesus considered the Word of God. But when I say that Israel is the Messiah, I can prove to you in those Scriptures.

It is a consensus, even among Christians, that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah. Well, my friend, the Prophet identifies that Servant with Israel by name, so that no one be tempted to assume that he is referring to an individual. Read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. Now, if you wanna go logical with this, an individual is born, lives his span of life, and eventually dies. Are we to expect a Messiah in every generation? Of course not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever emanating light unto the nations. That's Israel, the Collective. Jeremiah says in 31:35-37 that Israel remains as a People before the Lord forever. I Kings 13:36 says that Judah was promised to David that it will remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever, and be, according to Isaiah 42:6 as light for the Gentiles. Do you still think Jesus is the Messiah? If you do, prove it.

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sin. Also the soul sacrificed must be without blemish(sinless)
In that light please explain how Isaiah 53 can mean the nation of Israel.

 

[Zardoz]

[...doing away with the old covenant.

Yeshua rebukes your lie. Mathew 5:18 and 19

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sin. Also the soul sacrificed must be without blemish(sinless)

There is no such thing as human sacrifice in Judaism. Don't confuse animal sacrifice with your version of human sacrifice.

 

[Ben Masada]

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sin. Also the soul sacrificed must be without blemish(sinless)
In that light please explain how Isaiah 53 can mean the nation of Israel.

The Jews spent 70 years in the Babylonian exile. During all those years there was not a single sacrifice offered, because there was no Temple. Therefore, there was no shedding of blood. Nevertheless, at the end of the exile, the transgression which had caused the exile had finished, the sins had ended, reconciliation with God for the iniquity of the people had been effected, and Everlasting Righteousness had been brought back to the People. (Dan. 9:2) Now, how do you explain that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness?

Now, for the explanation you request of how Isaiah 53 can mean the nation of Israel, keep reading...

Messiah ben Joseph versus Messiah ben David

The whole chapter 53 of Isaiah is about the dramatic epic of two Messiahs: Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. The drama that culminated in the "death" of Messiah ben Joseph for the sins of Messiah ben David. Properly speaking, Messiah ben Joseph is Ephraim or Israel, the Ten Tribes of the Northern Kingdom. And Messiah ben David is Judah, the Southern Kingdom.

The sins of Judah had filled the Divine cup, and in God's judgment, the day had arrived for the removal of Judah. (Isa. 9:8) But according to I Kings 11:36, God had promised David that Judah, whose Tribe he had come from, would stay as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever. Therefore, according to Isaiah 9:8, the final judgment that was supposed to come upon Judah fell upon Israel instead, and Messiah ben Joseph had to go instead of Judah, or Messiah ben David.

But Isaiah says in 53:9 that the Suffering Servant was without guile, and sinless. That's exactly what Israel was: Pure of the sins he died for, since they were the sins of Judah and not his. Messiah ben Joseph therefore, did not die for his sins but for the sins of Messiah ben David. Therefore, Israel was removed because of the sins of another. He was pierced so to speak, by the sins of Judah. The sacrifice of Israel or Messiah ben Joseph meant the salvation of Judah or Messiah ben David. That's why Zechariah in 12:10 says that they (Judah) shall look upon him (Israel) whom they (Judah) had pierced with their sins, and mourn for him (Israel) as the one who mourns for his firstborn.

Now, let me explain by way of an analogy how Israel, or Messiah ben Joseph, who was the Suffering Servant died innocent of the sins of Judah or Messiah ben David:

"A" and "B". "A" has committed a crime punishable with death, and "B", by mistake was condemned for that crime. It doesn't matter how evil is "B" in his life or how bad are his sins. The point is that he was condemned to die for the crime of "A". Therefore "B" was killed innocent and pure of the crimes and sins of "A". "A" got saved by the death of "B". So, "B" was the Suffering Servant that brought salvation to "A". Now matching the analogy to reality, "A" was Judah that pierced "B" with his crimes and sins.

Now, with the removal of Messiah ben Joseph, according to Psalm 78:67-70, Messiah be David occupied the place of Messiah ben Joseph, but as the Triumphant Servant with reference to the rest of Mankind, because of God's promise to Noah that humanity would never be destroyed again in an universal manner. (Gen. 8:21) The People-redeemer was the pledge and on his way in the near future with the choice of Abraham through Isaac. That's what sustains the world and allows it to keep going. Now, there is a small detail worthy keeping in mind. The blood of the Suffering Servant was shed once and for all. Now, Mankind is kept safe with the existence of Judah, the Triumphant Servant, according to Jeremiah 31:35-37.

Ben

 

[Etritonakin]

To modern Israel....

Isa 29:1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
Isa 29:2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
Isa 29:3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
Isa 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
Isa 29:5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
Isa 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
Isa 29:7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
Isa 29:8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
Isa 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isa 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isa 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isa 29:17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
Isa 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 29:20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
Isa 29:21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
Isa 29:22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
Isa 29:23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. \
Isa 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
Isa 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

 

[allright]

If the end of the seventy years brought in everlasting righteousness and forgiveness of sins, why for the next 500 years or more did the high priest still offer the sacrifice of blood on yum kippur for the sins of the nation and watch to see if the scarlet cord turned red to see if God accepted the sacrifice and forgave the sins of the nation.
Why did God stop accepting the yum kippur sacrifice starting with the very year Jesus was crucified?
If Israel had obtained everlasting forgiveness and righteousness why would God allow Israels enemies to conqueror the nation, murder the people and defile and destoy the temple and finally let the whole nation be sent into exile.
And why would God speak thru Malachi several hundred years after the return
"ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even the whole nation." Doesnt sound like everlasting forgiveness and righteousness

 

[Etritonakin]

continued....
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Isa 10:23 For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.
Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
Isa 10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.

Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[Etritonakin]

Zec 8:1 Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying,
Zec 8:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.
Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Zec 8:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
Zec 8:5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
Zec 8:6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
Zec 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
Zec 8:9 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Let your hands be strong, ye that hear in these days these words by the mouth of the prophets, which were in the day that the foundation of the house of the LORD of hosts was laid, that the temple might be built.
Zec 8:10 For before these days there was no hire for man, nor any hire for beast; neither was there any peace to him that went out or came in because of the affliction: for I set all men every one against his neighbour.
Zec 8:11 But now I will not be unto the residue of this people as in the former days, saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 8:12 For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things.
Zec 8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.
Zec 8:14 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; As I thought to punish you, when your fathers provoked me to wrath, saith the LORD of hosts, and I repented not:
Zec 8:15 So again have I thought in these days to do well unto Jerusalem and to the house of Judah: fear ye not.
Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
Zec 8:17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.
Zec 8:18 And the word of the LORD of hosts came unto me, saying,
Zec 8:19 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.
Zec 8:20 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
Zec 8:21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.
Zec 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

[Etritonakin]

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

PEACE -I'M OUT!

 

[Ben Masada]

To modern Israel....

Isa 29:1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
Isa 29:2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
Isa 29:3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
Isa 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
Isa 29:5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
Isa 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
Isa 29:7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
Isa 29:8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
Isa 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isa 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isa 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isa 29:17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
Isa 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 29:20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
Isa 29:21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
Isa 29:22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
Isa 29:23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. \
Isa 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
Isa 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

Etritonakin, what is that supposed to be, jut for the reading? Don't you understand the time you are wasting to paste all this in the hope that it will impress us? If you want an answer to anything you would like to know, you have got to be more spcific.
To be honest with you, I did not read beyond the first quote. You are not alone in this forum . There are many others also who deserve a faster answer to their questions.