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Two Creation Stories

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You are denying Chapter Two?
No, I'm not. Chapter two gives us an entirely different view of the process of creation form chapter 1. But later in the story, when Eve took the fruit, it shows that we definitely choose our own way.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
No, I'm not. Chapter two gives us an entirely different view of the process of creation form chapter 1. But later in the story, when Eve took the fruit, it shows that we definitely choose our own way.

Another redirection....

This is about the creation of Man.
Man as a species on Day Six.
Go forth be fruitful and multiply.
No names....no law....no restrictions.

Alteration of Man...after Day Seven...Chapter Two.

The garden is an isolated event.
The garden event is a deliberate physical alteration.
A rib was removed.....and cloned.

Adam is a chosen son of God.
Eve is a clone....she had no navel.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Another redirection....

This is about the creation of Man.
Man as a species on Day Six.
Go forth be fruitful and multiply.
No names....no law....no restrictions.

Alteration of Man...after Day Seven...Chapter Two.

The garden is an isolated event.
The garden event is a deliberate physical alteration.
A rib was removed.....and cloned.

Adam is a chosen son of God.
Eve is a clone....she had no navel.
Sorry. The two stories were not written to "go together." It just doesn't work that way.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
It is believed in some religious scholars opinion that Chapter 2 of Genesis was first then Chapter 1 was added to bring consistency to the mythology of the book. Jewish writings were sometimes written in direct competition to other Near East cultures/religions (Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and latter on Greek mythology. For example a previous post mentioned the Enuma Elish story of creation which closely parallels the creation myth in Genesis. One must remember that some of this material extended from the early Bronze age to the middle Bronze age and probably first written down in the Iron age.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
It is believed in some religious scholars opinion that Chapter 2 of Genesis was first then Chapter 1 was added to bring consistency to the mythology of the book. Jewish writings were sometimes written in direct competition to other Near East cultures/religions (Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and latter on Greek mythology. For example a previous post mentioned the Enuma Elish story of creation which closely parallels the creation myth in Genesis. One must remember that some of this material extended from the early Bronze age to the middle Bronze age and probably first written down in the Iron age.

And this helps..."the two creation stories"...of Genesis ....How?
 

strikeviperMKII

Well-Known Member
It is believed in some religious scholars opinion that Chapter 2 of Genesis was first then Chapter 1 was added to bring consistency to the mythology of the book. Jewish writings were sometimes written in direct competition to other Near East cultures/religions (Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and latter on Greek mythology. For example a previous post mentioned the Enuma Elish story of creation which closely parallels the creation myth in Genesis. One must remember that some of this material extended from the early Bronze age to the middle Bronze age and probably first written down in the Iron age.

Actually, the Jewish scriptures were almost an exact copy of the Babylonian creation myth.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
And this helps..."the two creation stories"...of Genesis ....How?

Sorry, I didn't take it far enough. As I stated it is believed that Chapters 2 & 3 came before Chapter 1. Authors of Chapter 1 might have meant it to be nothing more than a commentary oh how to read Chapters 2 & 3. One could read Chapters 1,2,&3 as a completely free flowing narrative, or just read Chapters 2 & 3 a self contained story of the Garden with it's own literary integrative, theological concerns, and sociological backgrounds.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Sorry, I didn't take it far enough. As I stated it is believed that Chapters 2 & 3 came before Chapter 1. Authors of Chapter 1 might have meant it to be nothing more than a commentary oh how to read Chapters 2 & 3. One could read Chapters 1,2,&3 as a completely free flowing narrative, or just read Chapters 2 & 3 a self contained story of the Garden with it's own literary integrative, theological concerns, and sociological backgrounds.

I realize a developed thread is lengthy, and time consuming to read.

You are aware?... I hold Chapter One as that length of time for evolution to take hold....and Chapter Two has a manipulation of a species (Man).

Chapter Two is not a retelling of Chapter One.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Sorry, I as do a number of theologians believe that Genesis is mythology. This does not mean I do or do not believe in God/YAWH/Elohim, just that I believe that these are myths.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sorry, I as do a number of theologians believe that Genesis is mythology. This does not mean I do or do not believe in God/YAWH/Elohim, just that I believe that these are myths.

Was Jesus a theologian?

Jesus quoted or referred to Genesis such as at Matthew 19v5; Gen 2v24.

Jesus did not deny the recorded record as at Luke 3v38 making Adam related to Jesus.
 

strikeviperMKII

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I as do a number of theologians believe that Genesis is mythology. This does not mean I do or do not believe in God/YAWH/Elohim, just that I believe that these are myths.

I think when you understand Genesis to be a myth, it gives you a lot more freedom in finding a fulfilling meaning in it.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Was Jesus a theologian?

Jesus quoted or referred to Genesis such as at Matthew 19v5; Gen 2v24.

Jesus did not deny the recorded record as at Luke 3v38 making Adam related to Jesus.

Would a "teacher" attempt to confuse his audience with material that they profoundly believe in, or would one just continue the story to keep the audience on their side?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Would a "teacher" attempt to confuse his audience with material that they profoundly believe in, or would one just continue the story to keep the audience on their side?

He (Jesus) did something of that sort.

His own disciples had to ask Him later...after the crowd wandered off...
what He meant to say.

Parables sort out who has ears that hear....eyes that see.

So keeping the audience on His side...would not be the goal.
Parables reduce the 'nay' saying.
It takes a while for the crowd to realize....He was talking about them.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I think when you understand Genesis to be a myth, it gives you a lot more freedom in finding a fulfilling meaning in it.

What meaning did Jesus find in Genesis?

Why didn't Jesus deny being related to Adam? -Luke 3v38

Since Jesus referred to Genesis was Jesus referring to a myth?
Matt 24v37
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Would a "teacher" attempt to confuse his audience with material that they profoundly believe in, or would one just continue the story to keep the audience on their side?

How would just keeping the audience on his side explain the fulfillment of Scripture?

Since Jesus forewarned 'few' in comparison to 'many' would follow him, how would that just continue the story to keep people on his side?
-Matthew chapter seven
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Back to the 2 creation stories. There was a civilization that predates Israel by at least 1000 years (Sumerian) that has a "creation" story along with a "garden" containing forbidden plants. The story is "The Myth Of Dilmun" and the god Enki who goes into the garden and eats plants forbidden to him. There are mythology stories that abounded in early Near East civilizations. Is it "possible" that the writer or writers of Genesis "borrowed" or "modified" these ancient stories. When the bible was translated into English a lot of the "meanings" were lost. For instance the Hebrew word ha-adam is the masculine form of the word adama which mean ground or arable soil. Also Elohim is the Hebrew word for god....any god and Yahweh is "Lord". When the bible was translated, anytime Elohim or Yahweh was found the English word "God" was used. Makes you wonder what else "was lost in translation" . Also "The Text Only Means What the Interpreter Thinks It Means"
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Back to the 2 creation stories. There was a civilization that predates Israel by at least 1000 years (Sumerian) that has a "creation" story along with a "garden" containing forbidden plants. The story is "The Myth Of Dilmun" and the god Enki who goes into the garden and eats plants forbidden to him. There are mythology stories that abounded in early Near East civilizations. Is it "possible" that the writer or writers of Genesis "borrowed" or "modified" these ancient stories. When the bible was translated into English a lot of the "meanings" were lost. For instance the Hebrew word ha-adam is the masculine form of the word adama which mean ground or arable soil. Also Elohim is the Hebrew word for god....any god and Yahweh is "Lord". When the bible was translated, anytime Elohim or Yahweh was found the English word "God" was used. Makes you wonder what else "was lost in translation" . Also "The Text Only Means What the Interpreter Thinks It Means"

So placing evolution in Day Six doesn't work for you?
And the Garden of Genesis....was not God intervening?

Changing the names and making comparisons is all fine and good.
Glad to see you are well read.

Back to the two creations stories.....
Chapter One and Chapter Two are the same event?

Most Christians seem to think so.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
So placing evolution in Day Six doesn't work for you?
And the Garden of Genesis....was not God intervening?
I believe in God; I just think there are a lot of stories in the Bible that are adaptations of other mythologies.



Back to the two creations stories.....
Chapter One and Chapter Two are the same event?
There are various hypothesis of the two creations stories. One is that there were two versions written by two different authors and when the bible was canonized they were left in. Another was that the second story is a expansion of the first.

Most Christians seem to think so.
Yes I agree that most Christians as well as other religions believe everything that is written in the bible word for word story for story. However, that does not mean that there are other explanations for what it written. One must have a open mind and explore other possibilities. One can do that without destroying their belief in God.
 
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