Prayer in Public Schools

[I'ken Imagine]

As a new member to this forum I'm kind of testing the waters with this one to see whether it can be discussed in a candid and CIVIL manner. I offer my word that I will never use an ad hominem argument against any opponent under any circumstance. I'm completely OK with the U.S. Supreme Court rulings on prayer in our public schools. If you're NOT OK with the law, then I'm interested in discussing it with you. I'm hoping for discussion and NOT drive-by swipes. Fair enough? Possible? I hope so.

 

[outhouse]

a christian only prayer?

NO definatly not, NO PRAYERS IN SCHOOL!

school is for education

religion is for those that want to do it on there own time not waisting my tax dollars

 

[outhouse]

You people get your foot in the door and the next thing your trying to dumb the kids up with creationism.

let christians have a prayer, then the muslims what to kneel and do there thing, and then the hindus start chanting.

this states you dont want to play fair, and if you did want to play fair, you would waist to much time, children could learn something usefull in that time

 

[Storm]

I'm completely OK with the U.S. Supreme Court rulings on prayer in our public schools.

Which one?

 

[I'ken Imagine]

a christian only prayer? NO definatly not, NO PRAYERS IN SCHOOL! school is for education religion is for those that want to do it on there own time not waisting my tax dollars

Now, I personally think it's important to say that the law is NOT directed at Christian prayers (despite that fact that the majority of Americans are, I think, Christian.) I take it, in any event you support the law on the basis of your tax dollars.

I also think its VERY important to remind ourselves that the law does NOT tell us there can't be any prayers, by anyone, ever, in public schools. That seems to me, from things I often hear, to be a commonly held misunderstanding. Whether it's deliberate or not, I can't say.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm with Storm. Just what rulings/law(s) are you referring to here?

 

[outhouse]

keep religion out of schools ALL RELIGIONS

it has no place in the classroom

you have no right teaching your BS to my children

 

[I'ken Imagine]

Which one?

I'm sorry if I was vague. I was thinking of Engel vs. Vitale, (1962) as the basis. I know there have been many subsequent. I didn't intend to dissect a given ruling per se, but to discuss more generally. At least that's where my head was when I posted.

 

[Storm]

I'm sorry if I was vague. I was thinking of Engel vs. Vitale, (1962) as the basis. I know there have been many subsequent. I didn't intend to dissect a given ruling per se, but to discuss more generally. At least that's where my head was when I posted.

OK.

I agree with it, myself.

 

[outhouse]

If I wanted to read fairy tales to my children, I would do it on my time.

I do not want religion exposed by some idiot teacher that could care less.

I would never expose evil to your children so lets not let it get near mine!

 

[outhouse]

OK.

I agree with it, myself.

yes that I agree with as well

 

[Storm]

If I wanted to read fairy tales to my children, I would do it on my time.

I do not want religion exposed by some idiot teacher that could care less.

I would never expose evil to your children so lets not let it get near mine!

Did you even read the op, or are you just determined to show him that we can't be civil?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Engel vs. Vitale. O.K. Seems to be a fair enough ruling there. School is structured solely for learning the skills needed to survive in society, and not to be structured for worshiping and the promoting of worship. That's surely and obviously a church's or other religious groups function and responsibility to those who chooses to participate. School should be ultimately be sterile with a sharp focus on learning to use tools like Mathematics, English, Social Studies, and Science.

 

[Storm]

School should be ultimately be sterile with a sharp focus on learning to use tools like Mathematics, English, Social Studies, and Science.

I don't know that I'd go that far. Seems to me a "sterile" environment wouldn't be able to engage the kids.

Probably a topic for another thread, though.

 

[Sahar]

What do you mean by prayer in pubic school? Is this like a special class for prayer to all students?
What if a student wanted to perform a prayer (like a Muslim for example) in any empty space? Or is this a different topic?

 

[outhouse]

that is very civil with what is at stake.

lets break it down

If I wanted to read fairy tales to my children

do you think its not a fairy tale?

do you believe the earth is 6000 years old not 4.6 billion
the sun revolves around the earth instead of the opposite
the earth is flat instead of round
great flood that never happened
the tower of babal when its known many languages were spoken before hand
adam and eve who eve is not mentioned but yet adam is over 900 years old.
do you know how sexist and demeaning the bible is to women?

religion exposed by some idiot teacher that could care less

for one I dont want a teacher to explain these questions to any child, could you imagine the answers that would be told??? its bad enough that creation isnt outlawed completely yet.

I would never expose evil to your children so lets not let it get near mine!

were talking about a book that tells young children that god NOT ONLY flat murders every innocent, man, woman and CHILD on the planet, but only a handfull survive !!!! but the dang animals and fish too! what did the creatures do to deserve this kind of punishement!!!

you really think children need to read about MASS MURDER IN SCHOOLS???????????????? should we have them pray to a myth god and beg that he doesnt kill us they way he is supposed to have down in the past???????

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't know that I'd go that far. Seems to me a "sterile" environment wouldn't be able to engage the kids.

Probably a topic for another thread, though.

I understand what your trying to say here. Yet I feel holding to a sterile type environment sharpens a persons focus. In other words, if engaging mathematics one simply does not engage in topics unrelated to the subject at hand. It doesn't mean long boring repetition and such with a monotone voice. Just variations used in context to what is being taught at the moment. Can still be made fun and engaging methinks. Good teachers can do that.

 

[outhouse]

What do you mean by prayer in pubic school? Is this like a special class for prayer to all students?
What if a student wanted to perform a prayer (like a Muslim for example) in any empty space? Or is this a different topic?

its about this Engel v. Vitale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[stlekee]

that is very civil with what is at stake.

lets break it down



do you think its not a fairy tale?

do you believe the earth is 6000 years old not 4.6 billion
the sun revolves around the earth instead of the opposite
the earth is flat instead of round
great flood that never happened
the tower of babal when its known many languages were spoken before hand
adam and eve who eve is not mentioned but yet adam is over 900 years old.
do you know how sexist and demeaning the bible is to women?



for one I dont want a teacher to explain these questions to any child, could you imagine the answers that would be told??? its bad enough that creation isnt outlawed completely yet.



were talking about a book that tells young children that god NOT ONLY flat murders every innocent, man, woman and CHILD on the planet, but only a handfull survive !!!! but the dang animals and fish too! what did the creatures do to deserve this kind of punishement!!!

you really think children need to read about MASS MURDER IN SCHOOLS???????????????? should we have them pray to a myth god and beg that he doesnt kill us they way he is supposed to have down in the past???????

Hey, Outhouse, the issue is prayer in school ,not teaching Christianity. I also agree that there should be no staff organized and led prayers. I also believe that if a student wants to give a prayer of thanks before a meal, that's OK. Should he/she do out silently or out loud...hmm. I don't think we want to kick a kid out of school for saying 'thanks for lunch, God'. But then if another student is bothered or offended by this...I don't know.

Outhouse, do you think you, or your children, have the right to never hear anyone say a prayer in a public place like a school?

 

[outhouse]

Hey if you want say a prayer for yourself go for it please, knock yourself out that would make religion perfect. A group prayer No, keep religion out of school.

however imposing a religion on children is a crime and the supreme court made that very clear

Outhouse, do you think you, or your children, have the right to never hear anyone say a prayer in a public place like a school?

Fair question, YES

yes religion should be kept personal in my opinion, give them a inch like a simple prayer and they would evolve a prayer only to appeal for those who are in ear shot.