From 'born again' to agnostic

[Wotan]

I want to enlarge on a point already made. We non-believers do not fear death. We accept it. It is the religious who fear death and refuse to accept it. They make up this "soul" thingy and endow it with immortality so they can believe there is no death. And why do they do this? Because they are so FEARFUL that they may pass away. That indeed their existence after death will be exactly like it was before birth - nothing. This they FEAR. All the supernatural religions have this common element. Fear that death is the end of existence. Non-believers know it is. And we are much MORE attached to this life because we know it is ALL the life we will ever have. Each second becomes important because there are only a finite number of them.

For the believer this life is just a dress rehearsal for the much better and longer life to come. Which is why I often ask a true believer why he is still here. If this life is so nasty brutish and short why not jump to the much better life to come? As several do every day.

They most often equivocate, like Hamlet and mutter about "sin" and hell fire and such nonsense; and so become the cowards he noted.

 

[Wotan]

jm: I just want to clarify for you. I am not angry at Danmac for being Christian, or for defending or advocating for Christianity. I enjoy that. I am angry at him for repeated and constant evasion, dishonesty and double-standards. Those aren't particularly Christian things, are they?

ditto

 

[Danmac]

Who's afraid to die? Your religion invented an entire afterlife concept out of fear of becoming nothing after death.

I suppose your healthy and you do not fear death at this moment. As someone who is involved in ministry I have seen many arrogant atheists brought to their knees thru terminal illness. Get back to me when you are on your death bed.

Knowing for sure if god exists or not is an impossible task. I will say this though, the Christian god certainily does NOT exist.

This is an assumption that you cannot prove. You call us crazy for believing in God, but you do the same thing by making unprovable assumptions yourself. You know nothing beyond the grave. If I were to ask a medical scientist if a cure for Parkinson's existed, he or she would say, "not presently, but we are still trying to find one". You see science makes no claims about what they do not know. You however do not follow the protocol which I'm sure you boast about when it comes to evolution. Why do you make assumptions about the unknowable, when science does not?

 

[Danmac]

And what proof have you got that it so?

What proof do you have that it isn't?

 

[Danmac]

I was raised the same way, but am a strong atheist now. I wouldn't say I was raised as a strict "fundamentalist" though, but a very strong protestant unpbringing.

Religion certainly is a turnoff. I feel your pain.

 

[Autodidact]

I suppose your healthy and you do not fear death at this moment. As someone who is involved in ministry I have seen many arrogant atheists brought to their knees thru terminal illness. Get back to me when you are on your death bed.



This is an assumption that you cannot prove. You call us crazy for believing in God, but you do the same thing by making unprovable assumptions yourself. You know nothing beyond the grave. If I were to ask a medical scientist if a cure for Parkinson's existed, he or she would say, "not presently, but we are still trying to find one". You see science makes no claims about what they do not know. You however do not follow the protocol which I'm sure you boast about when it comes to evolution. Why do you make assumptions about the unknowable, when science does not?

If your God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, he clearly does not exist, and this can be easily shown.

 

[Danmac]

If your God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, he clearly does not exist, and this can be easily shown.

Giddyup

 

[Danmac]

And if it's not...?

True conversion bears witness with the soul. When Spiritual life enters into a lost soul, there is a paradigm shift without any effort of the will. This is undeniable to the convert.

 

[Autodidact]

Giddyup

Is He willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?

 

[Danmac]

I want to enlarge on a point already made. We non-believers do not fear death. We accept it. It is the religious who fear death and refuse to accept it. They make up this "soul" thingy and endow it with immortality so they can believe there is no death. And why do they do this? Because they are so FEARFUL that they may pass away. That indeed their existence after death will be exactly like it was before birth - nothing. This they FEAR. All the supernatural religions have this common element. Fear that death is the end of existence. Non-believers know it is. And we are much MORE attached to this life because we know it is ALL the life we will ever have. Each second becomes important because there are only a finite number of them.

Your assumptions may be true for an unconverted religious man or woman, but the believers I know look forward to heaven.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

For the believer this life is just a dress rehearsal for the much better and longer life to come. Which is why I often ask a true believer why he is still here. If this life is so nasty brutish and short why not jump to the much better life to come? As several do every day.

In this life we make investments into the next one. I am busy on earth, laying up treasures in heaven. I'm still working on my mansion. It's not finished yet.

Matthew 6:19 ¶ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

They most often equivocate, like Hamlet and mutter about "sin" and hell fire and such nonsense; and so become the cowards he noted.

Didn't hamlet wear pantyhose?

 

[Danmac]

Is He willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is impotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Whence then is evil?

We must conclude the trial first counselor. Why must you need to be reminded of this. Have you no ears to hear and no eyes to see?

 

[Autodidact]

We must conclude the trial first counselor. Why must you need to be reminded of this. Have you no ears to hear and no eyes to see?

What are you talking about? What trial? About whether or not there is evil? Do you doubt it?

 

[Danmac]

What are you talking about? What trial? About whether or not there is evil? Do you doubt it?

Evil is apparent. Evil is on trial. Evil will be executed at the conclusion of the trial.

 

[Big_TJ]

And why is that? Why do you choose to spend your time learning about something you don't believe in? Why do you spend your time mocking someone you believe does not exist? Seems like a waste of time. And there is only one, according to scripture, unforgivable sin.

This brings an interesting question to you, jml03. If you have to believe in something to spend time learning about it, on what basis did you base your belief in the first place? How could you "believe in God/christianity/religion before spending time reading about it? And, its ok; you can go ahead and use the word "brainwashed" in your answer (if you feel like:yes

 

[Big_TJ]

Evil is apparent. Evil is on trial. Evil will be executed at the conclusion of the trial.

Can you define EVIL and let me know who is putting "it" on trial? Certainly, it can't be God putting it on trial, since your bible tell you that God created all evil (Amos 3:6)

 

[ImmortalFlame]

True conversion bears witness with the soul. When Spiritual life enters into a lost soul, there is a paradigm shift without any effort of the will. This is undeniable to the convert.

Not answering the question as usual, Danmac.

 

[Danmac]

Not answering the question as usual, Danmac.

Pascals wager

 

[Danmac]

Can you define EVIL and let me know who is putting "it" on trial? Certainly, it can't be God putting it on trial, since your bible tell you that God created all evil (Amos 3:6)

Pride

 

[Danmac]

This brings an interesting question to you, jml03. If you have to believe in something to spend time learning about it, on what basis did you base your belief in the first place? How could you "believe in God/christianity/religion before spending time reading about it? And, its ok; you can go ahead and use the word "brainwashed" in your answer (if you feel like:yes

Every babe in Christ is a novice in the things concerning Christ. The learning comes after the Spiritual birth. It is a step of faith, not a scientific conclusion. Brainwashing is what you get in present day public schools.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Pascals wager

... was a crock. Your point?