Pathway to Salvation

[ATAT]

If there are any discrepencies in meaning between NIV and KJV, please let me know if they are significant.

I'm happy with these:

Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Matthew 18:21-35 (King James Version)
21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
...
33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


Luke 23:34 (King James Version)

34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 (King James Version)


37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 

[keeperoftheprison]

If the bible is correct, then shouldn't someone who believes in Jesus conclude that the way to be forgiven is to forgive others, as Jesus says? (example Mat 18; Mark 11; Luke 6; John 20, etc etc)

Why believe, 'You must believe Jesus is God, your sin atonement sacrifice, to be forgiven.' when Jesus never said that you had to believe that to be forgiven?

Jesus was asked how to pray, he gave an example prayer. That would have been the time to tell. Yet not one word about having to believe Jesus is God, sin atonement sacrifice, to be forgiven.

Contrast with:

Mat 18
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"

22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f] 23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
...
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

Jesus didn't say, "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you believe I am God, your sin atonement sacrifice, and confess your sins." He didn't say that at all. Never.

What he did say was all in context, clear, on point, spelled out, with a parable to give as an example explanation, you gotta forgive others to be forgiven. Over and over again, constantly, that's his message.

Jesus goes through great lengths to give this idea, all throughout the Gospels, and here we go and change it all to we gotta believe Jesus is God on the cross.

Shame Jesus never mentioned I have to believe Jesus is God / sacrifice on the cross.

Couldn't he have said it, at least at the end?

Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

He practices what he preached.

I forgot one:
John 20:23
If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."


Many more like that, in context, on point, clearly stated, with examples.

Nothing about I gotta believe Jesus is God to be forgiven.
Never, 'You must believe I am God your sin atonement to be forgiven.' Not once. I suppose you could clip together a partial idea here and there, stitch them together and come up with anything, but that's not fair, not reasonable, you wouldn't accept anything cut and pasted together like that.

Jesus thought his message of forgiveness was critical? Yes.
Jesus thought he was the new leader, the 'messiah', the 'Christ' (human leader, 'messiah' to save the Jewish people from oppression). Yes.
Thought he was God? No, he tried very hard to be clear about that, that's why he kept referring to himself as 'Son of God', or, most often, 'Son of Man.'

Over and over again, 'Son of Man.' Kind of hard to miss. Nobody else in history does that, but Jesus, in an effort to be clear, calls himself 'Son of Man' over and over again, even though we are all Sons of God. (Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.) (No capital letters in speech.)

Ironic.

In the Old Testament there are many prophesies concerning the savior. It even speaks of him comming from the the liniage of King David. Here are some verses that point out that Jesus is the Son of God and not just a normal person.
Mat. 10:32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.

Mat. 11:28 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"

Mat. 14 The story of Peter being afraid to walk on the water. God gave Jesus and later the apostles the gift of the Holy Spirit to prove that they are from God. The word of God (Bible) replaces those miracles now.

Mat 19:8 "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the begining it was not so." This is another reference that Jesus was at the begining.

Mat 20:28 "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom from many"

Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the Lord's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes?"
Jesus was the stone that was rejected. He has become the cornerstone of the church. That was a quote that Jesus made from Psalms 118:22.

Mat 23:10 "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ."

Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many."

Mat 24:30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"
This is referring to when Jesus makes his final return. If Jesus was just another prophet then why would he be picked out of them all to come back and have power and great glory? It's because Jesus was in the beginning and will be at the end.

Mat 28:18 "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

I will stop with that one. I didn't have to look much because it is all through the gospels.

 

[keeperoftheprison]

If there are any discrepencies in meaning between NIV and KJV, please let me know if they are significant.

I'm happy with these:

Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:21-35 (King James Version)
21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
...
33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


Luke 23:34 (King James Version)

34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 (King James Version)


37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

.

I do not have a NIV version of the Bible any longer. You'd have to go online and see about comparing things. Some things will probably be very similar but if you use a NIV version you should have something with a more literal translation nearby to catch when something is left out or changed

 

[waitasec]

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I do not have a NIV version of the Bible any longer. You'd have to go online and see about comparing things. Some things will probably be very similar but if you use a NIV version you should have something with a more literal translation nearby to catch when something is left out or changed

i am sorry, but don't you think if the bible was the WORD of god why would you even mention the different translations...isn't god, the creator of the universe supposed to be bigger than a book? or has this bible become bigger than god?

this seems pretty silly to me...

 

[Misty]

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I do not have a NIV version of the Bible any longer. You'd have to go online and see about comparing things. Some things will probably be very similar but if you use a NIV version you should have something with a more literal translation nearby to catch when something is left out or changed

I have read the KJV and other translations, but the NIV is one I like best.

 

[Autodidact]

I believe that there is a pathway to salvation that was given to us by Jesus. It is found constantly all throughout the New Testament. I would just like to see thoughts on this pathway. Also I believe that all of these steps must be followed to achieve salvation.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Confess
4. Be Baptised
5. Obey the Gospel
​

Uh, thanks for sharing your personal myth-system, which is always of anthropological interest. I guess my first question would be: what religion is your family of origin? My second question: Where did you grow up?

 

[Autodidact]

So you have no beliefs? If you believe in Jesus, then you would want to do what he said is necessary.

Right after you figured out what, if anything, He said.

And alternatively, if you believed in leprechauns, you might spend a lot of time chasing rainbows.

 

[Autodidact]

In a word... Hell

Ever been there? Know anything who has?

 

[Zadok]

I believe that there is a pathway to salvation that was given to us by Jesus. It is found constantly all throughout the New Testament. I would just like to see thoughts on this pathway. Also I believe that all of these steps must be followed to achieve salvation.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Confess
4. Be Baptised
5. Obey the Gospel​

The word salvation has the same root meaning as the word salvage. If one is to salvage a shipwreck they will do so by gathering all that remains valuable. The point of salvation is that G-d will gather unto him all that has value.

I am not sure the pride of those that brag about their salvation is what G-d considers of value and intends to salvage. If fact I am quite sure that all those that seek a salvation reward for themselves, qualify for that which G-d intends to salvage.

It would appear that many get side tracked on the very first step in the path – and they believe things that are valuable to them but that are not valuable to G-d.

Zadok

 

[Erebus]

I believe that there is a pathway to salvation that was given to us by Jesus. It is found constantly all throughout the New Testament. I would just like to see thoughts on this pathway. Also I believe that all of these steps must be followed to achieve salvation.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Confess
4. Be Baptised
5. Obey the Gospel​

My thoughts?

I'd rather find my own salvation

 

[waitasec]

The word salvation has the same root meaning as the word salvage. If one is to salvage a shipwreck they will do so by gathering all that remains valuable. The point of salvation is that G-d will gather unto him all that has value.

I am not sure the pride of those that brag about their salvation is what G-d considers of value and intends to salvage. If fact I am quite sure that all those that seek a salvation reward for themselves, qualify for that which G-d intends to salvage.

It would appear that many get side tracked on the very first step in the path – and they believe things that are valuable to them but that are not valuable to G-d.

Zadok

excellent!!! :bow:

 

[Autodidact]

God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were in the beginning. Read the first chapter of Genesis to understand that part.

Did that. Beautifully written creation myth. Are you telling me you think that's what really happened? Also nothing about Jesus or the Holy Ghost in here.

Jesus was sent to earth to be sacrificed yes, but you are forgetting that he didn't remain in the tomb. He later rejoined his father in Heaven. Everyone has free will that God gave. He allows you to choose your path. He wants everyone to choose the right one, but makes no one do so.

You have some very odd beliefs. Let me get this. Your God had a baby, and then He arranged to have him killed, and if you agree with all this, then God won't hurt you after you die? Is that right?

 

[Autodidact]

If you believe in God and in Jesus then you want to please them regardless of any possible rewards. When you were a child you wanted to gain favor from your parents in the same manor. There is a reward waiting for the good people that choose to follow because Jesus said that he was going to prepare a place. God is my father and I choose to do things to gain favor with him simply because of who he is and because he is always looking out for me.

Uh, why would you believe any of that? I mean, it's a weird story to begin with, and then it seems to me that if something is true, you can just show me why, you don't have to either threaten or promise me anything to get me to believe it. If someone has to threaten and promise me things, it makes me strongly suspicious that their story is bogus.

 

[Autodidact]

You do not believe.

My mind and heart are totally open to anything for which there is evidence. Got any?

Until you have an open mind and heart you cant believe. Until then no one can help you. When you start searching for the truth with an open mind and heart you will start seeing it.

Did that years ago. Found out there isn't any evidence. Done.

btw, is your mind equally open? If the evidence indicates your story isn't true, will you stop believing it? Or are you too scared that you will be condemned to Hell?

I can give you reasons to look around and see God and his work, but I have no idea if you even have beliefs or if you think a large rock created the world and it's atmosphere.

Someone believes that? Wow, that's as weird as your story. I looked all around and didn't see God anywhere. Is He invisible?

 

[Autodidact]

There are other religions. There are other opinions also. The Bible is the only thing I follow because I believe it is the inspired word of God. My beliefs can only be changed if someone can point out how I am biblically wrong.

You believe the Bible because you believe the Bible? See any problem with your reasoning there? Just sayin'.

 

[Autodidact]

I dont find God to have a crippling need of anything. If you tell a child to do something, and you aren't obeyed are there not going to be consequences? It isn't as if God is having us do a million things. He isn't asking alot.

According to you he's asking me to believe something not based on evidence. To me that's more than a lot. Is He also asking me to give someone money based on that belief?

 

[Autodidact]

So what do you think caused animals, atmosphere, humans and eventually your heart to start beating? Luck? Something had to start the chain of events.

I don't think it started. I think the universe was always here, and will always be here.
As for the details, I rely on science for that. What do you rely on?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So god sacrificed himself to himself in order to save something he created from something he created?

Let's see, I made a basement in my house and also made a sump crock to keep said basement from flooding. Now God created man with the free will to choose to accept or deny Him and the decision comes with incentives. It's not unseemly.

 

[Autodidact]

I dont see Atheists as fools at all. I'm not someone who judges people at all. If someone can prove anything that is in the Bible as wrong I'd admit it. I'm not closed minded. Give me a reason to doubt the Bible or anything in it.

O.K. The Ezekiel 26 says Tyre will be utterly destroyed and underwater. It has been continuously inhabited as a thriving sea-port to this day. Proven.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I believe that there is a pathway to salvation that was given to us by Jesus. It is found constantly all throughout the New Testament. I would just like to see thoughts on this pathway. Also I believe that all of these steps must be followed to achieve salvation.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Confess
4. Be Baptised
5. Obey the Gospel​

The thief on the cross who accepted Christ, was he saved? If so was he baptised and obedient to the gospel?