Why are most religious followers irrational?

[Riverwolf]

Can you be specific?

Theoretically, a person raped and murdered your whole family, stole most of what you owned, and was not persecuted because of a lapse in legal procedure.

You've since recovered and are living a good enough life. You find this person getting beat up by a large gang of people. Would you help this person and get his wounds treated, knowing what he did to you? Would you still care for this person despite his evil actions and tendencies?

 

[Badran]

Then what good is religion?

Who said that religion job is to make people who adhere it, superior to others. You can follow every single moral rule in a religion for example, but still don't believe in God. So then practically speaking they are both (the theist and atheist) be just as good in terms of moral code or treatment to others.

The thing is, you can't judge religion in terms of what perks or advantages it gives you, it is supposed to be the true reality of the universe for those who believe in it. It is the road to the afterlife or the next life, and a road to satisfy or please god, and becoming a better person in the process. And of course, it gives them great comfort and peace in their lives.

 

[ChristineES]

Churches give out food and clothing for the needy, they help people in need. They give out Christmas presents to the poor who can't afford them. They just don't brag about since Jesus told us not to. Sure, there are some bad apples. There are bad apples in any organization, but it seems we talk about the few bad and ignore the much good.

 

[dogsgod]

Let's see... a sense of structure, it can help an undisciplined person (like myself) develop discipline, it has some DARNED good stories...

It's purely on an individual level.

The challenge was:

Just name a moral kindness or action that a theist can do because of their belief, but that an atheist can't.

What are you suggesting, that these things you offer are unique to the theist?

 

[dogsgod]

Churches give out food and clothing for the needy, they help people in need. They give out Christmas presents to the poor who can't afford them. They just don't brag about since Jesus told us not to. Sure, there are some bad apples. There are bad apples in any organization, but it seems we talk about the few bad and ignore the much good.

Name a moral kindness or action that a theist can do because of their belief, but that an atheist can't.

 

[Riverwolf]

The challenge was:

Just name a moral kindness or action that a theist can do because of their belief, but that an atheist can't.

What are you suggesting, that these things you offer are unique to the theist?

Not at all.

Your challenge cannot be met, because, in my mind, there's no such thing as atheism vs. theism. In my eyes, asking what the use of religion is is akin to asking what the use of entertainment is.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Not at all.

Your challenge cannot be met, because, in my mind, there's no such thing as atheism vs. theism. In my eyes, asking what the use of religion is is akin to asking what the use of entertainment is.

Religion and entertainment serve the same purpose; which is to keep people from going crazy and tearing the world apart.

 

[Badran]

dogsgod, one of your questions was what good is religion?

I think there answers were all aimed at that point. So would you tell me what you think now after the explanations you got?

 

[ChristineES]

We all know that atheists can do the same benevolent acts as theists, I don't recall anyone saying otherwise.

 

[dogsgod]

Theoretically, a person raped and murdered your whole family, stole most of what you owned, and was not persecuted because of a lapse in legal procedure.

You've since recovered and are living a good enough life. You find this person getting beat up by a large gang of people. Would you help this person and get his wounds treated, knowing what he did to you? Would you still care for this person despite his evil actions and tendencies?

hmmm, would he still be wearing my favorite watch that he stole from me?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

We all know that atheists can do the same benevolent acts as theists, I don't recall anyone saying otherwise.

He's not saying that anyone disagreed with that statement. I believe his point was that religion really has no practical use in society. People don't need religion to do good deeds, it's all a matter of whether or not they want to. I think something along the same lines, except that I believe religion does have a use (although I don't agree with it). Religion is used to keep the population docile; people are more likely to behave if they don't realize that there's nothing stopping them from doing what they want to. Karl Marx was dead-on when he called religion the "opiate of the masses".

 

[Badran]

hmmm, would he still be wearing my favorite watch that he stole from me?

I think he said would "You (not as an atheist)", so i think he wasn't talking about the challenge of what can a theist do that an atheist can't.

 

[Badran]

You didn't answer my question dogsgod.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Theoretically, a person raped and murdered your whole family, stole most of what you owned, and was not persecuted because of a lapse in legal procedure.

You've since recovered and are living a good enough life. You find this person getting beat up by a large gang of people. Would you help this person and get his wounds treated, knowing what he did to you? Would you still care for this person despite his evil actions and tendencies?

I'd probably join in on beating him, especially if it gets me some of my stuff back.

 

[ChristineES]

He's not saying that anyone disagreed with that statement. I believe his point was that religion really has no practical use in society. People don't need religion to do good deeds, it's all a matter of whether or not they want to. I think something along the same lines, except that I believe religion does have a use (although I don't agree with it). Religion is used to keep the population docile; people are more likely to behave if they don't realize that there's nothing stopping them from doing what they want to. Karl Marx was dead-on when he called religion the "opiate of the masses".

I know people see things the way they want to. That doesn't mean it is really like that. Some people can use religion as a fear tactic to control the people, but that doesn't mean that is the same of all faiths. Most people don't become Christians because they are afraid of hell (whatever that is)but because they love God and Jesus. Can you say that someone is truly faithful if they only worship out of fear? On top of that, Christianity is not the only religion- there are many, many religions.

Just because you can do something does not mean that you should do something. Some things are not good for you and some things can cause harm to others as well as yourself.

 

[Riverwolf]

hmmm, would he still be wearing my favorite watch that he stole from me?

Sure, if you want. :yes:

 

[Riverwolf]

He's not saying that anyone disagreed with that statement. I believe his point was that religion really has no practical use in society. People don't need religion to do good deeds, it's all a matter of whether or not they want to. I think something along the same lines, except that I believe religion does have a use (although I don't agree with it). Religion is used to keep the population docile; people are more likely to behave if they don't realize that there's nothing stopping them from doing what they want to. Karl Marx was dead-on when he called religion the "opiate of the masses".

And I disagree. I use religion as a way for self-discovery and discipline.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'd probably join in on beating him, especially if it gets me some of my stuff back.

Right, and I'm forced to answer the same way, as I am.

But my ideal goal, which is what my religion teaches, is to be able to save this guy anyway, and hopefully do so out of love and not obligation.

Can an atheist do this, too? Of course.

 

[LoTrobador]

Karl Marx was dead-on when he called religion the "opiate of the masses".

He also wrote on religion:

This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

He also wrote on religion:

This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

We're reffering to the same quotation. Marx is referring to religion as a tool to make people feel better about their lives in order to keep the established order, much like opium keeps people calm and relaxed.