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Causation and a suposed god.

logician

Well-Known Member
If there is no causation, then there is no need for a god;

If there must be causation, then what was the cause of a supposed god?

What say you?
 
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McBell

Unbound
If there is no causation, then there is no need for a god;

If there must be causation, then what was the cause of a supposed god?

What say you?
It is like the ultimate unanswerable question:
How many licks does it take to get to center of a tootsie roll pop?
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
If there is no causation, then there is no need for a god;

If there must be causation, then what was the cause of a supposed god?

What say you?
Another interesting concept is that the universe is the root from which 'causations' grow into many branches. the universe is and processes grow and manifest from it. the question is, do you search for purpose or final cause. does the universe or natural environment need more than causality or 'purpose' for the sake of growth.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
The question really provides nothing at all. The religious will answer this by saying that God is outside of our understanding. The non-religious will criticize that idea.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
If there is no causation, then there is no need for a god;

If there must be causation, then what was the cause of a supposed god?

What say you?
Why does God need a cause? Are you assuming that either all things must have a cause or their is no cause at all?
 

Baydwin

Well-Known Member
If there is no causation, then there is no need for a god;

If there must be causation, then what was the cause of a supposed god?

What say you?
Cause and effect is a phenomena within our universe, it doesn't necessarily follow that it applies to entities beyond.
Anyway, I know you believe in the multiverse which is full of causation.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Cause and effect is a phenomena within our universe, it doesn't necessarily follow that it applies to entities beyond.
Anyway, I know you believe in the multiverse which is full of causation.
It seems to be a common flaw to believe that things outside this universe behave the same as things in it.
 

Karl R

Active Member
If there is no causation, then there is no need for a god;
I would say that the universe existed before logician was conceived and the universe will continue to exist after logician is gone. In fact, the universe would have existed this entire time even if logician had never been conceived.

Since there is clearly no need for logician to exist, does that mean that logician doesn't exist?
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
I would say that the universe existed before logician was conceived and the universe will continue to exist after logician is gone. In fact, the universe would have existed this entire time even if logician had never been conceived.

Since there is clearly no need for logician to exist, does that mean that logician doesn't exist?
Wasn't the question whether Logician has a cause?
 

McBell

Unbound
Why does God need a cause?
The argument is that because of the complexity of the universe, there has to be a cause for said complexity.
The cause for said complexity is supposed to be God.
Yet that rule is tossed out the window when applied to God.

Are you assuming that either all things must have a cause or their is no cause at all?
No, that assumption is made by the one who claims that the complexity had to come from God.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
Cause and effect is a phenomena within our universe, it doesn't necessarily follow that it applies to entities beyond.
Anyway, I know you believe in the multiverse which is full of causation.

I'm talking aout original causation, i.e. did somthing "Cause" the multiverse to begin.

I suggest no, it has existed forever in one phase or another, with no original causative mechanism.
 

Zadok

Zadok
I tend towards the "no causation" thought, i.e. matter and energy have existed forever, with no need for a supposed god to tinker around.

Actually the fact that we can conceive of tinkering around with matter and energy is the foundation of scientific and other kinds of knowledge. If we can tinker with such things – is it not unreasonable to imagine and consider that someone smarter than us could do with such things on a proportionately larger or longer scale?

If man can evolve in this universe with how long this universe has existed – what greater beings could evolve if we but think outside the little box that this universe is; in what we imagine as forever and ever?


Zadok
 
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