My Setianism

[Kori Houghton]

Kori,

(link to Wikipedia deleted because this site won't allow me to quote a URL)

ONA and Setian Philosophy are so far apart its not even funny and have nothing in common. You really do not know what you are talking about.

Sireal, I didn't write anything about the respective philosophies of the ONA and the Temple of Set, or about the values and goals of these organizations. Magical techniques can be neutral. The example I gave was one of getting the message out there, so to speak, which says nothing about the content of the message.

"The Temple of Set proscribed the ONA in the early 1980s for its avowal of human sacrifice." from the above article.

So the Temple proscribed a nonexistent group?

Actually, I'm old enough to remember this, and first heard about the ONA in a post by a TOS member in the old FidoNet days. Although, back then it was the Church of Satan that supposedly did not exist. :sarcastic

Anyone who takes or promotes the taking of Life to accomplish "magic" or "religion" is nothing but a psychopath wearing a pentagram or a cross-same bunch if you ask me. Myatt started this thing and it took, sort of, by gathering up all the diseased psyche's out of the gutter that gravitate towards that sort of thing- good! I say as they are now out of the way. Hitler created a group too and did it using magical tech does that make his magic more credible? anyone can do magic, in fact Everyone does-most just do it very poorly. Hell, the RCC is one of the biggest magical constructs on the planet, do you think their creation is more valid because they lied, raped and murdered for 2000 years?

I don't see how this responds to what I wrote? There's a lot more to the ONA than the brief bit of text about 'opfers'.

Magic is about Life, Set is about Life, the Temple of Set is about Life, the RHP is anti-Life, death and dissolution and that includes Myatt's ONA. So what if he slaps a pentagram on his garbage and calls it LHP, that does not make it so and it will fall into the pit called Because just like all the rest.

Well, I accept that you are well qualified to tell me what you think Magic in the Temple is about. However, I react poorly to profane Liber pounding.

 

[Kori Houghton]

Hello Kori,

I haven't seen that name in ages.

I don't recall ever encountering you previously, Mr. Adams?

No I don't think the ONA has any concepts in common with the ToS because as far as I can tell they don't exist anymore and all I can find are some articles by Anton Long on a wordpress blog by someone other than Anton Long (or Christos Beest, or David Myatt, or whatever name he is using today since all the emails from these members traced back to the same ip address). The latest information on him I've seen was that he's in Australia living under the name Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt and has become a muslin because he figured that would **** people off more.

The artist formerly known as Christos Beest was never David Myatt. I'd post the URL to some of his work, but this site won't let a newbie add a URL. So there were at least two people back in the day.

As I commented to Sireal above, I didn't say that the ONA had philosophical concepts or values or goals in common with the Temple of Set. I'm an outsider to both groups, and cannot address that issue. But, based on what I've read of their work, I'd guess their aims were very different.

Granted he did informally use a technique similar to the one Dr. Flowers spoke about in his interview with me, but he didn't do it in an organized fashion. He only used the internet and never even had a website developed. I do see now that some of the articles written by him are being published on lulu.com, but hell anyone can get published there. Drs. Aquino and Flowers have doctoral degrees and teach or have taught at universities, Don Webb has a Masters and teaches at a university. They've been solid foundations which the Temple has built itself on. Myatt has been arrested a couple of times for violent acts of white supremacy. So who's the better?

I know you don't really want me to give a detailed opinion of what I've read by Aquino, Flowers and Webb and contrast that with what I've read by various ONA members. Are you asking me who's better in terms of their ethics or behavior? If so, I can't imagine why.

P.S.: I liked that you brought up my podcasts in the debate. Clever girl! :clap

The podcasts are great! I think they are a positive PR move for the Temple, and will help you attract the kind of people you are looking for. Good job!

 

[Valor]

Seriously, whats all the debate about?

This path is hard enough to tread without being undermined Kori. I respect your views, honestly, but is this going to be an everyday thing? If so there is a forum specifically created for such debate at the bottom of the home page.

I'm trying to learn here...please respect this.

Is there something you can also share with me concerning Setian Initiation? If so, please do?

I'm a sponge my dear...

 

[Kori Houghton]

Valor -- Best wishes for your Setian initiation.

I am not here seeking debate. I am not a member of the Temple, nor have I ever been, so I have nothing in that respect to share with you because I cannot write from experience about them. Even though I see they have posted otherwise? I have no intention of distracting from Setian discussion here, so if you are curious about what I have to say about Set, initiation, magic, and other topics, you will have to follow the trail left for you by Mr. Adams.

 

[Valor]

Valor -- Best wishes for your Setian initiation.

I am not here seeking debate. I am not a member of the Temple, nor have I ever been, so I have nothing in that respect to share with you because I cannot write from experience about them. Even though I see they have posted otherwise? I have no intention of distracting from Setian discussion here, so if you are curious about what I have to say about Set, initiation, magic, and other topics, you will have to follow the trail left for you by Mr. Adams.

Very good, thank you.

 

[blackout]

...... if you are curious about what I have to say about Set, initiation, magic, and other topics,.....

I personally would rather hear more of all these topics +,
and less of all the Temple/Non-Temple 'debate'.

But that's just me.

 

[KHPR]

I know you don't really want me to give a detailed opinion of what I've read by Aquino, Flowers and Webb and contrast that with what I've read by various ONA members. Are you asking me who's better in terms of their ethics or behavior? If so, I can't imagine why.

David Myatt and the ONA no longer exist. Perhaps Christos Beest is another person, but their emails to Dr. Aquino traced back to the same IP address so maybe they were roomates. Other than that I can't say. I know Dr. Aquino, Dr. Flowers and Don Webb very well. I've read what they've written and it wasn't as "against the grain" as David Myatt/Anton Long's stuff. Myatt wasn't trying to spread what he learned, but seemed more to be into ******* people off and working them up. When you build up that kind of energy in people, but offer no place to direct it then it becomes kind of pointless.

The podcasts are great! I think they are a positive PR move for the Temple, and will help you attract the kind of people you are looking for. Good job!

Glad you enjoy them. I'll keep them coming. BTW, the reason you don't know my name is because I've been working behind the scenes for most of my time in the Temple, but I did used to read alt.satanism and a few other forums and try and convince people that verbal fencing matches where a waste of time. The only reason I showed up here was because I saw KHPR mentioned and thought I should chime in to promote it more.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[Kori Houghton]

Yes, please keep them coming! I showed up here because someone suggested I check out the podcasts. Am looking forward to Don Webb's book on Tezcatlipoca, a special interest of mine.

Kori

 

[Adramelek]

Hi Daelech:

Yes, the Path of Initiation is a lonely one. In my opinion the Prince of Darkness deliberately intervienes in the Initiate's life, if any, only once or twice in a lifetime. We are on our own. When we perform Magic, the results are manifestations of our own Will not that of Set's. The Dark Lord bestowed upon us the Freedom of Mind and Will (which could be considered the first intervention) that we may make our own decisions, Work our own Magic, carve are own way through the world. To me, this is as it should be as it prepares us for Evolved Self-deification.

If my car gets stuck on a railroad track with on oncoming train approaching I'm not just going to sit there and pray to Set to save me, that's not how it works, no, I'm going to get the hell out there. May relationship with the Dark One is one of a Teacher and student, of a brother and familiar not a slave and master. This is one of the many things which seperates us of from Right Hand Pathers. As I see it, the Majesty of Set seeks familiars, not mindless servants - another thing that distinguishes Him/It from the death gods of Christianity and Islam.

/Adramelek\

 

[Adramelek]

Hi Vi,

I too think this forum should be about discussing and learning about Setian philosophy instead of a ToS bashing forum. That's why I'm glad the one calling themself "the Anti-Set" has been banished from the R.E. forum. All they seemed to want to do was draw attention to themself and cause trouble which only succeded in blowing up in their face.

/Adramelek\

 

[EtuMalku]

Considering we have a Magister and a Priest from the Temple I would say this forum is very fortunate and it would be a travesty to drive them away with petty diatribes.


Xeper Aum
EM

 

[KHPR]

Considering we have a Magister and a Priest from the Temple I would say this forum is very fortunate and it would be a travesty to drive them away with petty diatribes.

If I decide I've finished my work here I'll just go back to working on KHPR. It's success speaks for itself.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[Adramelek]

Daelach:

The reason one like me would appreciate Setian fellowhip is that I desire to communicate and exchange ideas with others who walk the same Path. I don't "need" Setian fellowship, but it's nice to have. The shareing of knowledge and ideas is a good way of learning, and the remanifestation of this knowledge through my own Work can lead to developing my own Magical techniques that work for me.

To a certain extent I am a lone wolf, but there is something unique and magical about being around others who also seek after the Mysteries of the Black Arts. Again, Initiation is a Path one must walk alone, but the support and guidance of like minded individuals, especially those with more experience and understanding can lead to personal Xeper. I know this from experience, as do all other Setains. But this is somehting you have to encounter first hand to understand. This is why I joined the R.E. forum, to learn and exchange ideas from others who Seek After the Mysteries.

And by no means has it been a wasted 20 years.

/Adramelek\

 

[PointyHat]

David Myatt and the ONA no longer exist.

Yet did you not say that Myatt was alive and well and living in Australia?

As for Anton Long, whomsoever he is, he is alive and well and has published scores of new ONA material in the last year alone.

As for the ONA itself, it is thriving - with groups (nexions) and tribes (gangs) in America, Europe, Russia, Mid-East and elsewhere.

Why, two gals from the OC in California have their own ONA blog, as does a former New York cop who is ONA, as do the Temple of Them in Australia, who are ONA. And so on. And that's just a few who decide to have a public profile.

Perhaps Christos Beest is another person, but their emails to Dr. Aquino traced back to the same IP address so maybe they were roomates.

This really does seem to show a lack of knowledge of the ONA - Aquino exchanged snail-mail letters with S. Brown on the ONA many years before the Internet proper.

Some of these letters are contained in facsimile in the published volumes "The Satanic Letters of Stephen Brown".

It was Aquino who mistakenly claimed that the ONA was just one person, even though then it was around two dozen people. Notice how Aquino dropped this rather silly claim many years later.

This claim arose because most ONA members then as now keep themselves secret - as practitioners of the LHP have done for centuries.

BTW, Anton Long has never ever communicated to anyone outside of the ONA OG (Old Guard) via e-mail.

If you desire to engage in debate about the ONA and differences between the ONA and Temple of Set, then may I suggest you go over to mysatan ning dot com and start a dialogue with the likes of ONA babe SugaCubez352?

 

[KHPR]

Yet did you not say that Myatt was alive and well and living in Australia?

Hmmmm another person coming in with his first post as an attack on the ToS. Myatt is alive and well and living in Australia under a Muslim name now. He has nothing to do with the ONA. They have no official website only a few self published books that were put together by someone other than the authors of the articles. Not only that, but the message has nothing to do with the thread.

This is the Setian forum. If you'd like to start a thread on the ONA please do it somewhere else.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

 

[PointyHat]

ONA and Setian Philosophy are so far apart its not even funny and have nothing in common.

Agreed - the ONA is a sinister LHP group, with a highly developed, original, ontology, and esoteric philosophy.

This original esoteric philosophy is now attracting the attention of some academics, as witness the recent academic conference on world Satanism in Norway, where two papers were presented about the ONA, and its unique LHP approach.

Magic is about Life,

Some magick is about life - but some sinister magick is about culling as an act of evolution.

Myatt's ONA. So what if he slaps a pentagram on

The ONA has never used a pentagram - it has its own unique, original, symbols and sigils, as anyone who has taken the trouble the study the ONA would know.

 

[PointyHat]

Hmmmm another person coming in with his first post as an attack on the ToS.

Presenting facts about the ONA and the communication between the ONA and Aquino is not attacking the ToS.

That you seem to assume it is, is interesting.

Not only that, but the message has nothing to do with the thread.

On the contrary - you made assumptions and accusations about a group and an individual, and I replied regarding your assumptions and accusations. Ergo, my reply here is relevant, since you introduced the topics of ONA and Myatt.

Or is it that you do not allow anyone to contradict anything someone from the ToS says?

 

[Kori Houghton]

Hmmmm another person coming in with his first post as an attack on the ToS. Myatt is alive and well and living in Australia under a Muslim name now. He has nothing to do with the ONA. They have no official website only a few self published books that were put together by someone other than the authors of the articles. Not only that, but the message has nothing to do with the thread.

This is the Setian forum. If you'd like to start a thread on the ONA please do it somewhere else.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams

Are you saying that established 'Setian' group members can post misleading info about non-Setian groups here, whose members will not be able to set the record straight? I would think that posting falsehoods would be objectionable here.

 

[Sireal]

Index of /pdf/76BlackBookOfSatan.pdf -

read it for yourself and if its that important to you open an ONA forum somewhere else or get over it. IMO ONA carries the seeds of its own destruction and I don't play with diseased systems of magic.

 

[PointyHat]

get over it. IMO ONA carries the seeds of its own destruction and I don't play with diseased systems of magic.

Which does not answer any of the points raised here, especially about rationally and in a polite way correcting mis-information and errors made here by other posters about the ONA.

My replies were rational and polite and on-topic, given that several posters had presented incorrect information about the ONA.

Also, and correct me if I am in error, but doesn't the Temple of Set encourage it's members to interact with others in a civilized manner? Which civilized manner surely including debating with those who are not ToS members.