The shifting membership of RF

[Jackytar]

I think atheists are just lonely.

Jackytar

 

[JMorris]

no one likes us including each other

 

[Willamena]

eerm where does non theistic aware mystic come in?

They don't (come "in").

 

[katiafish]

they don't (come "in").

lol!

 

[Tiapan]

I've been a member of RF for four and a half years now, and have seem to have noticed a pretty big shift in the forum's demographics during that time. I'm just curious as to whether or not I'm right. Do you see yourself as a theist (any religion at all or no religion) as an agnostic or as an atheist?

As a new member of the community I have an interest in the trend, which way does it go pro or anti-god?

Cheers

 

[Alceste]

Sorry, I didn't realize that. Last I knew it meant "one who believes that there is no deity." When did the definition change?

We're always banging on about this, but it never seems to get through. "Theism" is "belief in a deity". "A-theism" is "without belief in a deity." The prefix "a-" simply means without. The root, "theos" means gods or gods, and the suffix, "-ism" is a doctrine or belief.

It's a subtle but important distinction (to us, anyway, if not to theists). "There is no god" would require a different word, technically, since it is a positive assertion - a distinct "doctrine or belief" being put forward. "Materialism" might kind of cover it, in the sense of "there is no 'supernatural' realm", but not all atheists are materialists.

 

[Alceste]

eerm where does non theistic aware mystic come in?

We should start a club.

 

[Jackytar]

We should start a club.

The lonely atheist club. We could have lively discussions about Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Or a bake sale. I'm okay either way.

Jackytar

 

[Autodidact]

I would prefer to see more theists of all kinds. The reason I hang out at RF rather than an atheist board is to have some people on the other side(s) argue discuss with. My ideal board would have lots of Christians, Muslim, Jews, Hindus and miscellaneous pagans etc. of all kinds, and a nice fraction of atheists as well.

 

[MSizer]

I would prefer to see more theists of all kinds. The reason I hang out at RF rather than an atheist board is to have some people on the other side(s) argue discuss with. My ideal board would have lots of Christians, Muslim, Jews, Hindus and miscellaneous pagans etc. of all kinds, and a nice fraction of atheists as well.

Yes, I feel the same way. I can't expect to feel as though my stance is valid if I haven't subjected it to the gauntlet of opposition that's out there. I recently thought that maybe our collective atheistic participation may be turning off theists from the forum, but I think some people misinterepreted my post and thought that I beleieved we were "scaring away" theists, or "defeating them into submission". It's not at all what I was implying. The reason I posted the thought is because I wondered whether theists might be thinking "why bother anymore, I don't gain insight from my fellow theists, all I get is atheistic rebuttle". I'm not so conceited as to think we're driving theists out, but rather suspect that they might choose not to bother as it's not of interest to them.

 

[Breathe]

Quick! Invite your theist friends to the boards!

 

[Katzpur]

We're always banging on about this, but it never seems to get through. "Theism" is "belief in a deity". "A-theism" is "without belief in a deity." The prefix "a-" simply means without. The root, "theos" means gods or gods, and the suffix, "-ism" is a doctrine or belief.

It's a subtle but important distinction (to us, anyway, if not to theists). "There is no god" would require a different word, technically, since it is a positive assertion - a distinct "doctrine or belief" being put forward. "Materialism" might kind of cover it, in the sense of "there is no 'supernatural' realm", but not all atheists are materialists.

Well, I suspect that until the dictionaries of the world redefine the word, we'll probably continue to bang on about it.

According to Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary:

Atheism - the belief that there is no God.
Atheist - one who believes that there is no God.

You may not like how I personally use the word, but my usage is entirely in keeping with the best definition of the word I know of.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You may not like how I personally use the word, but my usage is entirely in keeping with the best definition of the word I know of.

How fortunate that the particular dictionary that you've decided to use happens to list only the definition that you agree with.

 

[Alceste]

Well, I suspect that until the dictionaries of the world redefine the word, we'll probably continue to bang on about it.

According to Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary:

Atheism - the belief that there is no God.
Atheist - one who believes that there is no God.

You may not like how I personally use the word, but my usage is entirely in keeping with the best definition of the word I know of.

You may not be aware of this, but there is more than one dictionary. I'm a bit surprised and dismayed that after all this time talking to the most common type of atheist (people who simply do not believe in any gods) you haven't noticed your working definition of "atheism" is totally incorrect.

I'm sure you get a little peevish when people define "Christianity" so narrowly (not to mention inaccurately) that your beliefs are excluded. So I'll bet you know how that feels. Frankly, you ought to know better.

 

[Apex]

You may not be aware of this, but there is more than one dictionary. I'm a bit surprised and dismayed that after all this time talking to the most common type of atheist (people who simply do not believe in any gods) you haven't noticed your working definition of "atheism" is totally incorrect.

I'm sure you get a little peevish when people define "Christianity" so narrowly (not to mention inaccurately) that your beliefs are excluded. So I'll bet you know how that feels. Frankly, you ought to know better.

Ask five different atheists for the definition of atheism and you will get five different answers.

Until atheists are unanimous in their definition of atheism what is wrong with using a dictionary?

 

[monta]

Well, I suspect that until the dictionaries of the world redefine the word, we'll probably continue to bang on about it.

According to Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary:

Atheism - the belief that there is no God.
Atheist - one who believes that there is no God.

You may not like how I personally use the word, but my usage is entirely in keeping with the best definition of the word I know of.

I would love to actually see this edition of the dictionary that seemingly keeps being sold to people who aren't me Here is the definition I find when I look up
atheism





One entry found

Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

 

[Alceste]

Ask five different atheists for the definition of atheism and you will get five different answers.

Baloney. Apparently you haven't been paying attention either. You get 9 or 10 atheists saying "atheism is the lack of belief in gods" and 1 saying "as far as I'm concerned, 'god' - whether or not anyone bothers to define it - definitely does not exist".

Even the zealots only go so far as "probably".

Until atheists are unanimous in their definition of atheism what is wrong with using a dictionary?

Well, Christians are pretty much unanimous in excluding LDS from their definition of "Christianity", so I wouldn't count on unanymity as a measure of accuracy.

 

[Ozzie]

I'm voted agnostic because I conduct too many thought experiments where I consider myself a brain in a vat.

For example:

 

[Apex]

Baloney. Apparently you haven't been paying attention either. You get 9 or 10 atheists saying "atheism is the lack of belief in gods" and 1 saying "as far as I'm concerned, 'god' - whether or not anyone bothers to define it - definitely does not exist".

Maybe on this site.

Even the zealots only go so far as "probably".

Huh, I think I remember A C Grayling in the Intelligence Squared debate the other night making a remark that the "probably" was not entirely their choice. And this is hardly representative of all atheists either.

Well, Christians are pretty much unanimous in excluding LDS from their definition of "Christianity", so I wouldn't count on unanymity as a measure of accuracy.

Once again, from the dictionary.
Christian:
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith. 2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ: Spain is a Christian country. 3. of or pertaining to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades. 4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity. 5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial. 6. human; not brutal; humane: Such behavior isn't Christian.
–noun 7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity. 8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian. 9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren. 10. the hero of Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. 11. a male given name.
I don't really have a problem with any of those.


It all comes down to there being no reason for jumping over Kat's back for going with a definition from the dictionary. If you don't agree then fine. But saying others may not use a definition that varies from yours is going to far.

 

[Alceste]

Maybe on this site.

Huh, I think I remember A C Grayling in the Intelligence Squared debate the other night making a remark that the "probably" was not entirely their choice. And this is hardly representative of all atheists either.

Once again, from the dictionary.
Christian:
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith. 2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ: Spain is a Christian country. 3. of or pertaining to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades. 4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity. 5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial. 6. human; not brutal; humane: Such behavior isn't Christian.
–noun 7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity. 8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian. 9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren. 10. the hero of Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. 11. a male given name.
I don't really have a problem with any of those.


It all comes down to there being no reason for jumping over Kat's back for going with a definition from the dictionary. If you don't agree then fine. But saying others may not use a definition that varies from yours is going to far.

My point is NOBODY agrees with that definition apart from exceptionally thick theists, and it's plain wrong, and anyone who has spent YEARS talking to atheists should have clocked that a long time ago.

But, if it's no big deal to you, I'll stop thinking of Mormons as Christians, since their beliefs are based on the teachings of some 19th century American charlatan and not on the teachings of Jesus Christ, as required by the dictionary.