God screwed Adam and Eve

[Rogue Cardinal]

Is this serious or satire?

1) They were blank slates that did whatever was told of them it doesn't matter if god told them to do one thing, if a command was given after god made a command in the first place, that command would be followed.

Support or retract.

2) God made them the blank puppets

Support or retract.

3) It doesn't matter if they were warned or not, THEY HAD NO CONCEPT OF GOOD AND EVIL!!! if they were told that someothing was "bad" for them to do, how would they distinguish this from something "good"?The answer: THEY WOULDN'T!! To them it was all just actions, there was no bad and right to them, just actions because god made them that way.

They didn't need a concept of good nor evil. They already had a concept of gaining for oneself. One might call it greed. Now you can forgive them this greed if you say they didn't know better. And they didn't know that their greed was wrong. BUt they did understand that they could do things for their own self gain. Vanity...and that is what the serpent used against them. Their vanity.

In fact without this freewill to choose Adam and Eve would have been nothing more than mindless robots. It wasn't the way God made them....it was the choices that Adam and Eve made.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, it still wasn't there fault, they didn't need to take the blame. Besides it being utterly obvious, they admitted that they ate from the tree, what further could they have done? They weren't at fault at the time they ate the fruit, it was completely god and the snake's fault.

It's not about "fault." It's about responsibility. It's not about simply admitting the act, but admitting that it was wrong.

They ate the fruit, therefore they were responsible.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Support or retract.

Support or retract.


They didn't need a concept of good nor evil. They already had a concept of gaining for oneself. One might call it greed. Now you can forgive them this greed if you say they didn't know better. And they didn't know that their greed was wrong. BUt they did understand that they could do things for their own self gain. Vanity...and that is what the serpent used against them. Their vanity.

In fact without this freewill to choose Adam and Eve would have been nothing more than mindless robots. It wasn't the way God made them....it was the choices that Adam and Eve made.

Do children have the concept of good and evil when they are born?

God told them not to eat from the tree, was it wrong or not that they did?

If it was wrong, how were they suppose to know?

If not, then why would god kick them from the garden when it was clearly not their fault?

 

[nonbeliever_92]

It's not about "fault." It's about responsibility. It's not about simply admitting the act, but admitting that it was wrong.

They ate the fruit, therefore they were responsible.

Yes, but why were they kicked out of the garden? They took responisblity for eating from the tree.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, but why were they kicked out of the garden? They took responisblity for eating from the tree.

No, they didn't. Adam placed the responsibility on Eve, who subsequently placed the responsibility on the Serpent.

How many times have you heard kids say: "He made me do it!"? I know I've used that pathetic excuse from time to time.

 

[Humanistheart]

Dude... quote button...

They didn't know before.

They did know after, and therefore it was their responsibility to apologize, and recognize now the wrong they had done, which they did not. To that culture which gave birth to this story, that might have been the socially acceptable thing to do: FIRST apologize, THEN acknowledge that you didn't know. Nevertheless, acknowledge that YOU did it, without making excuses.

What wrong had they done?

 

[Humanistheart]

Yes, but why were they kicked out of the garden? They took responisblity for eating from the tree.

No, they were punished for eating from the tree. That's not the same as taking responcibility.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Do children have the concept of good and evil when they are born?

Where Adam and Eve EVER children? Where they ever BORN? No they were created. So why would you think they were like children when they were not created as such?

God told them not to eat from the tree, was it wrong or not that they did?

It wasn't WRONG to eat from the tree. IT was wrong to lie about it. Not even GOd knew they had done it. What was wrong is that they disobeyed a command from God. It's that simple.

If it was wrong, how were they suppose to know?

Because God told them not to do something.

Now you SAY they didn't know...but they HIDE from God after the fact. And as a side note let us not forget that I AM an Atheist. So how do I look at this story that I believe to be nothing but allegory and not true at all. What is to be gained from this story? Obey God!! That's what is to be gained. God said do X....they did Y....bad stuff happens. Through out the entire Old Testament this is exactly what happens over and over. God says X....Jews do Y....bad things happen to the Jews that didn't listen....or anyone else that didn't listen. Adam and Eve didn't listen and thus chose a path that led to bad things for them. That's the message of that story and nothing else.

If not, then why would god kick them from the garden when it was clearly not their fault?

God had to kick them out fo the Garden. IF you READ the bible you would understand that they understood that the tree of life would have made them immortal and God didn't want that....so God kicked them out of the garden for THAT reason and that reason only.

 

[Humanistheart]

God had to kick them out fo the Garden. IF you READ the bible you would understand that they understood that the tree of life would have made them immortal and God didn't want that....so God kicked them out of the garden for THAT reason and that reason only.

Thereby putting gods wants over the rights of human beings. Not a great god is he?

 

[Morse]

Thereby putting gods wants over the rights of human beings. Not a great god is he?

As a child, I once severely cut my hand open.

I didn't want to go to the hospital, but my mother forced me to. If I hadn't of went, my hand wouldn't have any functioning nerves left in it.

 

[Humanistheart]

As a child, I once severely cut my hand open.

I didn't want to go to the hospital, but my mother forced me to. If I hadn't of went, my hand wouldn't have any functioning nerves left in it.

I see what your going for, but it's not exactly an apt analogy. Kicking adam and eve out of the garden, cursing them with pain and mortality, and all their future generations, is hardly the same as taking a child to the doctor for stiches now is it? One is done for the safty of the child, out of love, the other's spiteful and rather unethical, designed to hurt others.

 

[Morse]

Who can claim to know God's motives?

Some say it is spiteful and rather unethical, designed to hurt others.

Some say it was to prevent them from visiting great harm upon themselves. In whichever sense of immortality you consider, human kind clearly does not have the capacity to rightfully claim it.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Thereby putting gods wants over the rights of human beings. Not a great god is he?

Well one COULD argue that as the creator he has imminent domain to do as he sees fit.

I guess my question to you would be what is so bad about God wanting man to live in a perfect world? That IS what the world initially was. Man ruined it. Not God...if we are to take this story as true at all.

God was protecting Adam and Eve from having to ever know what evil was. IS that bad? I don't know if you have kids....but I know I have 2 and it's hard to not protect them from things you know will harm them.

 

[Sententia]

Adam and Eve... hee hee

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

I see what your going for, but it's not exactly an apt analogy. Kicking adam and eve out of the garden, cursing them with pain and mortality, and all their future generations, is hardly the same as taking a child to the doctor for stiches now is it? One is done for the safty of the child, out of love, the other's spiteful and rather unethical, designed to hurt others.

Is it a curse or is it consequences for simply not adhering to the commands of the father?

If your child did X and you told them not to do it and furthermore if they DID do it Y would be a consequence of the function of X.....would you be a bad parent if you didn't follow through on your word? Dr. Spock says you would be as well as every other child psychologist....ever.

Again God didn't really DO anything. Adam and Eve disobeyed and brought unto themselves that which God said would happen. Now to be honest....and fair to you....What happened in the end was a bit more than what was stated up front. God originally said that they would surely die. HE didn't say instantly.....but they would die and even to this day people die.

 

[zenzero]

Friend nonbeliever 92,

personally what have understood that the intention of the Bible was to explain or make understand the people the WAY / PATH to the SELF.
It [Bible] is not meant to be taken literally.

Existence itself is the Garden of Eden where everything is already available / provided for. The moment one starts THINKING one falls to the level of duality and that itself is getting kicked/screwed because then everything appears as good/bad, god/satan etc.
Adam & Eve are just representative of the human species.

Love & rgds

 

[rageoftyrael]

you know zenzero, it seems every time you post anything, that you aren't really saying anything at all. i'm not trying to be offensive, but it is always like, groovy man. it's all in the mind man. my fingers can touch anything but themselves.... oh!

 

[Watchmen]

God's goal is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of Man. He created a Plan to accomplish this goal and the Fall was part of the Plan. It wasn't a douche thing to do - it was for our own benefit and progression so that we could one day become like Him. Without the Fall - we either (1) would not have existed at all, and/or (2) would have lived in ignorance forever.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

God's goal is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of Man. He created a Plan to accomplish this goal and the Fall was part of the Plan. It wasn't a douche thing to do - it was for our own benefit and progression so that we could one day become like Him. Without the Fall - we either (1) would not have existed at all, and/or (2) would have lived in ignorance forever.

According to God we were already like him. The FALL is the thing that made us like him.

Since we were like him....according to God....we could no longer eat from the tree of life. SO he kicked us out of the garden. So according to the bible your little theory isn't holding up very well.

 

[zenzero]

Friend rageoftyrael,

you know zenzero, it seems every time you post anything, that you aren't really saying anything at all. i'm not trying to be offensive, but it is always like, groovy man. it's all in the mind man. my fingers can touch anything but themselves.... oh!

IT surely is like that!
The MIND itself is the root CAUSE & EFFECT.
Allow the thoughts to settle down like ripples in a lake and the reflection of the moon is clear, Truth reflects on its own on a thoughtless mind.
Love & rgds