Where does man go from here?

[Katzpur]

Assuming that life began as a single celled organism and evolved from there to include an enormous variety of life forms, man presumably being the most intellectually advanced of them all, where will man be in say 5 billion more years? Will he continue to evolve? And if so, into what? To what extent does your belief system suppose that homo sapiens can continue to change, hopefully for the better?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Change for sure. For the better? Up to us.

It has always stuck me as odd that this is not used by theists as an argument for a god. We have a life and reason and a universe that reveals itself if we are persistent enough in asking the questions. While individually our lives are very brief we can learn and pass on knowledge so that humanity can progress IF we choose to do so.

Both our lives and the universe we live in are fantastic gifts. And are given no stings attached. We can do as we choose with our lives and within the limits a natural law can do with the universe anything we can figure out how to do. We need answer to no one and whatever happens we have done either to - or for - ourselves with neither help nor hindrance.

Now that is gift worthy of a god.:yes:

 

[Katzpur]

Change for sure. For the better? Up to us.

How is it up to us? I mean, sure, each of us can try to improve ourselves, gain knowledge, etc., but remember -- I'm not talking about any of us individually. I'm talking about mankind and the kinds of changes that might take place over a period of several billion years. I'm asking you to kind of look ahead just a ways beyond your own lifetime. What I'm asking is how far do you believe man can evolve? If he started as a one-celled organism, what can we expect the future to hold if he continues to progress at the same rate as in the past?

It has always stuck me as odd that this is not used by theists as an argument for a god.

How so? What does God (or gods, as the case may be) have to do with the question?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Umm. . . that post failed to come across. :cover:

Let me start again.

By "us" I mean us - all of us - as a species - collectively - over time - make decisions and chose directions. For example, we (the "developed world") have generally over the pass 1000 years decided two basic things.

1. Material progress is good and worth striving for.

2. The conditions among men should become more equal.

We clearly could have decided differently, as some of others of us have. We are now engaged in a centuries long discussion of the wisdom of those two decisions. We - ALL of us as a species - will ultimately have to decide. And we will. You can call that process societal evolution or intellectual development or the march of civilization or the working out of god's master plan.

As for PHYSICAL changes "Childhood's End" is a possibility. So is the Borg. I have no great insight to offer there other than to note that we have stopped the operation of natural selection as to ourselves.

As for why all this suggests a god the Catholic dogma springs to mind. WHY is there anything - at all. Existence itself is evidence of a god. And the fact that we CAN control our environment is further evidence of a design. WHY are we able to understand the universe? Or in Einstein's quip, "The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is its comprehensibility."

How and why should this be so unless some intelligence designed it that way?

 

[BucephalusBB]

I see evolving adapting to our situation.

Nowadays we have the skills to adapt the situation to us instead. So, we will still continue to adapt to new situations, but not at the same "rate" as we did before. I put quotes around rate simply because evolving is nothing like a constant line or so..

And change for the better? The purpose of evolving is always for the better as you adapt to your environment.

 

[kai]

arnt we out of the natural selection process , we no longer need to adapt we can adapt our own environment to suit us ,maybe we have reached the end of the line evolution wise.

 

[Caladan]

Assuming that life began as a single celled organism and evolved from there to include an enormous variety of life forms, man presumably being the most intellectually advanced of them all, where will man be in say 5 billion more years? Will he continue to evolve? And if so, into what? To what extent does your belief system suppose that homo sapiens can continue to change, hopefully for the better?

5 billion years is a long time. humanity would go through a lot during that time span. for example colonization of space may result in physical adaptation, as we know from our modest experience in space exploration, space has an effect on the body, new physical environments will have new effects on the human physiology, and groups of people with different off world experiences can adapt to the new requirements they are faced.

as for changing 'for the better', I think we need to analyze this notion a bit. physiological changes are a result of several environmental factors, such as climate, so perhaps we need to examine what we mean by better.. are we talking solely about intellectual development or are we also talking about what the environmental experience of humanity and societies will result in.
physical evolution and social evolution may have a common fate, our social and ideological trends may result in physical changes, and vice versa.

 

[Katzpur]

By "us" I mean us - all of us - as a species - collectively - over time - make decisions and chose directions. For example, we (the "developed world") have generally over the pass 1000 years decided two basic things.

1. Material progress is good and worth striving for.

2. The conditions among men should become more equal.

Okay, I see what you're saying, but you're still just talking about changes over relatively brief periods of time. We're come a long ways in the past 1000 years, but are we really physically or mentally all that different than people living in 1000 A.D. I'm just trying to get a feel for how far we might be able to progress (physically and mentally, I suppose) in a far, far longer period of time.

As for PHYSICAL changes "Childhood's End" is a possibility. So is the Borg.

I'm feeling stupid. I have never heard of either of these. What are they?

I have no great insight to offer there other than to note that we have stopped the operation of natural selection as to ourselves.

Huh? Why do you say that?

 

[Katzpur]

Nowadays we have the skills to adapt the situation to us instead. So, we will still continue to adapt to new situations, but not at the same "rate" as we did before. I put quotes around rate simply because evolving is nothing like a constant line or so..

The "rate" you're referring to has always been pretty slow, hasn't it? I mean how long have human-like creatures walked on two feet? (I suck at all of the biological sciences so you'll have to forgive my ignorance.) How long was Cro-magnon man around? What about Neaderthals? I mean they didn't just arrive on the scene only to disappear a couple of thousand years later, did they?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Okay, I see what you're saying, but you're still just talking about changes over relatively brief periods of time. We're come a long ways in the past 1000 years, but are we really physically or mentally all that different than people living in 1000 A.D. I'm just trying to get a feel for how far we might be able to progress (physically and mentally, I suppose) in a far, far longer period of time.

I'm feeling stupid. I have never heard of either of these. What are they?

Huh? Why do you say that?

To start ot the end (!?) rather then the beginning, we are no longer engaged in a life and death struggle to survive one day at a time. So natural selection isn't molding us any longer. We keep older folks alive when in the natural world they would disposed of. We cure illness that would otherwise kill us off. Natural selection would have killed those of us not able to fight infections off. We no longer need great physical skill, eyesight, hearing, strength to survive. Natural selection would have selected against weakness in all those areas. From a purely evolution POV we are diluting the gene pool with inferior traits, like poor eyesight.

As for the Borg it is reference to Star Trek TNG. The Borg are an alien race of cyborgs, partly biological partly machine. Their society is a collective controlled by a master computer, sorta like ants with technology. Or the 6 Million $ Man as a entire species.

Childhood's End is a novel by Arthur C. Clark one of his first and best. The ideas in it have influenced SciFi every since. Everyone who writes now is influenced by it including Star Trek with its "Que" character.

I see you are a Christian. The novel contains a special reference to that religion. (A little detail Clark threw in for fun - or so it seems.)

Anyway I recommend you read it. But if you just want to see its relevance Wiki has both a long and short synopsis of the plot.

 

[kai]

To start ot the end (!?) rather then the beginning, we are no longer engaged in a life and death struggle to survive one day at a time. So natural selection isn't molding us any longer. We keep older folks alive when in the natural world they would disposed of. We cure illness that would otherwise kill us off. Natural selection would have killed those of us not able to fight infections off. We no longer need great physical skill, eyesight, hearing, strength to survive. Natural selection would have selected against weakness in all those areas. From a purely evolution POV we are diluting the gene pool with inferior traits, like poor eyesight.



As for the Borg it is reference to Star Trek TNG. The Borg are an alien race of cyborgs, partly biological partly machine. Their society is a collective controlled by a master computer, sorta like ants with technology. Or the 6 Million $ Man as a entire species.

Childhood's End is a novel by Arthur C. Clark one of his first and best. The ideas in it have influenced SciFi every since. Everyone who writes now is influenced by it including Star Trek with its "Que" character.

I see you are a Christian. The novel contains a special reference to that religion. (A little detail Clark threw in for fun - or so it seems.)

Anyway I recommend you read it. But if you just want to see its relevance Wiki has both a long and short synopsis of the plot.

Thats right we now rely on technology more and more to keep us alive and to make up for weaknesses that would have been bred out of us . the question is are we still evolving at all?

 

[Brotownious'_87]

Assuming that life began as a single celled organism and evolved from there to include an enormous variety of life forms, man presumably being the most intellectually advanced of them all, where will man be in say 5 billion more years? Will he continue to evolve? And if so, into what? To what extent does your belief system suppose that homo sapiens can continue to change, hopefully for the better?

in five billion years man will be scatterd along with losts of little particles of earth in space. so in answer to your question, we will be " partly astronautical ".

 

[Brotownious'_87]

Assuming that life began as a single celled organism and evolved from there to include an enormous variety of life forms, man presumably being the most intellectually advanced of them all, where will man be in say 5 billion more years? Will he continue to evolve? And if so, into what? To what extent does your belief system suppose that homo sapiens can continue to change, hopefully for the better?

in five billion years, man will be scattered along with lots of tiny particles of earth in space. so in answer to your question, am will be "partly astronautical".

 

[rojse]

in five billion years, man will be scattered along with lots of tiny particles of earth in space. so in answer to your question, am will be "partly astronautical".

How do you work that one out? The sun calcines the earth in five billion years, and presumably some of the ash goes into space?

 

[blackout]

If enough people were like me,
we would all be able to change colors at will
and as well grow extra fingers and arms.

and yes... in this economy... and in certain parts of the world in particular,
we are in a life and death struggle to live one day at a time.

 

[blackout]

Thats right we now rely on technology more and more to keep us alive and to make up for weaknesses that would have been bred out of us . the question is are we still evolving at all?

Agreed.

What a lame trade off.

 

[Brotownious'_87]

How do you work that one out? The sun calcines the earth in five billion years, and presumably some of the ash goes into space?

is that before or after the sun impoldes???

 

[rojse]

is that before or after the sun impoldes???

End of the World

 

[Brotownious'_87]

End of the World

good work toolious, you just backed me 100%

 

[BucephalusBB]

The "rate" you're referring to has always been pretty slow, hasn't it? I mean how long have human-like creatures walked on two feet? (I suck at all of the biological sciences so you'll have to forgive my ignorance.) How long was Cro-magnon man around? What about Neaderthals? I mean they didn't just arrive on the scene only to disappear a couple of thousand years later, did they?

Depends on what you view as slow. Is a million years slow in evolution? a billion? And in this billion years that we call a specie one name, does that mean that specie isn't evolving anymore? Like I said, It's not a constant rate. "rate" actually has no meaning here.