Whats the facination with Born Of a Virgin?

[tomspug]

1. Actually, the propheices of the OT were for their day and time only, not hundreds or thousands of years hence.

According to whom?

 

[Ringer]

I thought Horus was the child of Isis and Osiris?

"... but Isis and Osiris were enamoured of each other and consorted together in the darkness of the womb before their birth. Some say that Arueris came from this union and was called the elder Horus by the Egyptians, but Apollo by the Greeks." - Plutarch, Osiris and Isis.

Also, isn't there other tradition that states that Isis later marries Horus? That seems like a bit of a stretch if people use Horus mythology and compare it to Christianity elements.

 

[logician]

According to whom?

Here' s a few:

False Prophecies

 

[matthew.william]

Some scholars believe that Horus was born of the Virgin Isis. (Replete with a virgin nativity scene and shepards etc.)

There are many correlations and its quite interesting research.

I believe the story goes that Osiris was chopped to bits, Isis uses her magic to reanimate his body, and Osiris seed was drawn from him. Some versions say Isis uses a phallic device to impregnate herself with Osiris seed.

~matthew.william~

 

[Random]

Virgin Moms rock. :flirt:

 

[logician]

I believe the story goes that Osiris was chopped to bits, Isis uses her magic to reanimate his body, and Osiris seed was drawn from him. Some versions say Isis uses a phallic device to impregnate herself with Osiris seed.

~matthew.william~

Really, let's see a link.

 

[Sententia]

Mithra was born from a rock

And adam was born from dirt.

 

[matthew.william]

Really, let's see a link.

The original form of the myth states that Osiris was killed by a wooden sarcophagus secretly being made to his measurements by Set, who was jealous of Osiris's positon as king, and so plotted to kill him and take his place. A party had been held where the coffin was offered to whoever could fit inside. A few people tried to fit in, but to no avail. Osiris was encouraged to try, but as soon as he lay back, the lid slammed on him and was locked. It was then sealed with lead and thrown into the Nile. Upon hearing that Osiris was gone, Isis set out to look for him. She later learned that the coffin had floated down the Nile river up to the coast of Byblos (now in modern day Lebanon) and got embedded in the trunk of a cedar tree. She also learned that the cedar tree had been taken and used as a pillar to support a palace for the king of Byblos. After explaining the situation to the queen of Byblos and getting her permission, she managed to extract the coffin without harming the palace and took Osiris' body out into the desert and buried him back in Egypt.
Again, Set found Osiris' coffin, took his body out, and dismembered him into 13 parts, scattering them across the land of Egypt. Each part represented one of the 13 full moons (each year has 12 or 13 full moons[1]).
Once again Isis set out to look for the pieces and she was able to find and put together 12 of the 13 parts, but was unable to find the 13th, his penis, which was eaten by the oxyrhynchus fish (a fish with an unusual curved snout resembling depictions of Set). Instead, she fashioned a phallus out of gold and sang a song around Osiris until he came back to life.
Osiris was resurrected. So it was that Isis conceived Horus. Due to this experience, Osiris became Lord of the Dead, and the Afterlife.

Legend of Osiris and Isis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

citation from: "Ancient Egypt", page 137 in chapter 10 by Dr. Robert K. Ritner. Oxford University Press, 1997.

I'll get around to your MITHRAS=CHRISTIANITY post a bit later. (Are you aware most of that link you have was written by David Ulansey? He's a New Age cosmologist. Seems like a weird source for you to use given your stance on religion.)

~matthew.william~

 

[matthew.william]

And adam was born from dirt.

Okay, so what? I thought we were talking about virginal births?

~matthew.william~

 

[logician]

Legend of Osiris and Isis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

citation from: "Ancient Egypt", page 137 in chapter 10 by Dr. Robert K. Ritner. Oxford University Press, 1997.

I'll get around to your MITHRAS=CHRISTIANITY post a bit later. (Are you aware most of that link you have was written by David Ulansey? He's a New Age cosmologist. Seems like a weird source for you to use given your stance on religion.)

~matthew.william~

At least this myth is much more entertaining that the Christian one.

 

[Sententia]

Okay, so what? I thought we were talking about virginal births?

~matthew.william~

Isn't adam technically a virgin birth? He had no mother but only a father....

 

[logician]

A little more about Mithraism, Christianity, Constantine, and Paul's influence.

Mithraism & early Christianity

 

[kai]

it stands to reason that if you are the son of a god, then you are not the son of a man, so to add credence to the story we have a virgin birth.

Zues seemed to have caused a couple of these by visiting mortal women as a shower of gold. for example hercules ,and Perseus

 

[matthew.william]

The "slight" resemblence of Christianity to other religions:

​

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.
2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.c
3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.
4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.
5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.
6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

As you can now see, Christianity derived many of its essential elements from the ancient religion of Mithraism. Mithraism became intertwined with the cult of Jesus to form what is known today as “Christianity.”

We often hear about how many of the traditions, rites and symbols of modern day "Christian" holidays have their roots in paganism. Have you ever wondered why December 25th was chosen to celebrate the birth of Jesus? Could it only be a consequence that ancient paganism and the story of Mithras' birth coincides with the Yule/Christmas season? .

. The followers refer to Him as the "Light of the World" a phrase often used also in Christian faith when referring to Jesus.

This son of a god born of a virgin, was so commonly spread in those days that Philo of Alexandria (30 BCE - 45 CE), warned against this widespread superstitious belief in unions between male gods and human females. The offspring’s are known as demigods.

Mithraism. Not an influence on Christianity

It is an essay with sourced material that answers most, if not all of those "facts".

Tammuz, who was incorporated also into Attis and Mithras, and they stood model for the story in the NT, because they were deities who all are supposed to have died and resurrected. Tammuz was always called Adon, meaning Lord. (the Greek Adonis, was based on him). Actually all these deities were based on the first deity to have died and resurrected, the Egyptian deity Osiris. So there is absolutely nothing unique about Jesus. In fact he is copyright due to Osiris.

Osiris died, Isis put all his pieces together after the god Seth chopped him up, breathed life into him so she could have Horus, and then he dies again and becomes ruler of the underworld. Any information cited about Tammuz?

Of the following (semi) deities legends went around that they were born of a virgin:
. A brief review of some of these :


ATTIS - Phrygia: Born of the virgin Nana on December 25. He was both the Father and the Divine Son. He was a savior crucified on a tree for the salvation of mankind. He was buried but on the third day the priests found the tomb empty -- He had arisen from the dead (on March 25th). He followers were baptized in blood, thereby washing away their sins -- after which they declared themselves "born again." His followers ate a sacred meal of bread, which they believed became the body of the savoir.

Attis and Cybele. Not an influence on Christianity
another sourced essay.

BUDDIAH – INDIA: Born of the Virgin Maya on December 25th. He was announced by a star and attended by wise men presenting costly gifts. At birth angles sing heavenly songs. He taught in temple at age 12. Tempted by Mara, the Evil One (Satan), while fasting. He was baptized in water with the Spirit of God present. Buddiah healed the sick and fed 500 from a small basket of cakes and even walked on water. He came to fulfill the law and preached the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness and obliged followers to poverty and to renounce the world. He transfigured on a mount. Died (on a cross, in some traditions), buried but arose again after tomb opened by supernatural powers. Ascended into heaven (Nirvana). Will return in later days to judge the dead. Buddiah was called: "Good Shepherd," "Carpenter," "Alpha and Omega," "Sin Bearer," "Master," "Light of the World," "Redeemer," etc.

I know very little of Buddha's life, but I have a few questions about the things stated. Wasn't Buddha kind of a spoiled child/prince? I've never heard him teaching while he was that young. Also, I heard he was cremated and his ashes spread to eight locations...Nothing about a physical resurrection like Christ. Any Buddhists want to add? I'll find some literature to read.

 

[matthew.william]

DIONYSUS - GREECE: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed many miracles. Turned water into wine. Followers ate sacred meal that became the body of the god. He rose from the dead March 25th. Identified with the ram and lamb's and was called "King of Kings," "Only Begotten Son," "Savior," "Redeemer," "Sin bearer," "Anointed One," the "Alpha and Omega."

Again, the December 25th date is irrelevant, not to mention his birthday was celebrated January 6th. Born of a virgin? Well that depends on how you interpret the story of Zeus revealing his god-hood to Semele, burning her, leaving a fetus behind which Zeus promptly sews into his thigh. He's know to be "twice-born", but I've never seen it called a "virgin birth".

HERACLES – GREECE: Born at the winter equinox of a virgin who refrained from sex with her until her god-begotten child was born and was sacrificed at the spring equinox. He too, was called "Savior," "Only begotten," "Prince of Peace," "Son of Righteousness."

I'm fairly certain the story goes the Zeus impregnates a kings' wife and out pops the Herc-man. Not a virgin birth. Nor was he sacrificed...He committed suicide because of a tunic he was wearing. I don't know why he would be called any of the things listed above, but if you can cite it, that'd be appreciated.

KRISHNA - INDIA:Krishna was born while his foster-father Nanda was in the city to pay his tax to the king. His nativity heralded by a star, Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki in a cave, which at the time of his birth was miraculously illuminated. The cow-herds adored his birth. King Kansa sought the life of the Indian Christ by ordering the massacre of all male children born during the same night at He. Krishna traveled widely, performing miracles -- raising the dead, healing lepers, the deaf and the blind. The crucified Krishna is pictured on the cross with arms extended. Pierced by an arrow while hanging on the cross, Krishna died, but descended into Hell from which He rose again on the third day and ascended into Heaven. (The Gospel of Nicodemus tell of Jesus' descent into Hell.) He will return on the last day to judge the quick and the dead. Krishna is the second person of the Hindu trinity.

Please cite.

OSIRIS – EGYPT: He came to fulfill the law. Called "KRST," the "Anointed One." Born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave / manger, with his birth announced by a star and attended by three wise men. Earthly father named "Seb" (translates to "Joseph.") At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple and at 30 he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years. Osiris was baptized in the river Iarutana -- the river Jordan -- by "Anup the Baptizer," who was beheaded. (Anup translates to John.) He performed miracles, exorcised demons, raised El-Osiris from the dead. Walked on water and was betrayed by Typhon, crucified between two thieves on the 17th day of the month of Athyr. Buried in a tomb from which he arose on the third day (19th Athyr) and was resurrected. His suffering, death, and resurrection celebrated each year by His disciples on the Vernal Equinox -- Easter. Called "The Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "god's Anointed god's Anointed Son,' the "Son of Man," the "Word made Flesh," the "word of truth." Expected to reign a thousand years.

[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+0]Perhaps the only pagan god for whom there is a resurrection is the Egyptian Osiris. Close examination of this story shows that it is very different from Christ's resurrection. Osiris did not rise; he ruled in the abode of the dead. As biblical scholar, Roland de Vaux, wrote, "What is meant of Osiris being 'raised to life?' Simply that, thanks to the ministrations of Isis, he is able to lead a life beyond the tomb which is an almost perfect replica of earthly existence. But he will never again come among the living and will reign only over the dead.… This revived god is in reality a 'mummy' god."... No, the mummified Osiris was hardly an inspiration for the resurrected Christ...As Yamauchi observes, "Ordinary men aspired to identification with Osiris as one who had triumphed over death." But it is a mistake to equate the Egyptian view of the afterlife with the biblical doctrine of resurrection. To achieve immortality the Egyptian had to meet three conditions: First, his body had to be preserved by mummification. Second, nourishment was provided by the actual offering of daily bread and beer. Third, magical spells were interred with him. His body did not rise from the dead; rather elements of his personality-his Ba and Ka-continued to hover over his body. ["The Resurrection of Jesus Christ: Myth, Hoax, or History?"

-David J. MacLeod, in The Emmaus Journal, V7 #2, Winter 98, p169[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]

As for the rest of that on Osiris, do you have a Egyptian scholars to back those factoids up?

 

[Breathe]

I know very little of Buddha's life, but I have a few questions about the things stated. Wasn't Buddha kind of a spoiled child/prince? I've never heard him teaching while he was that young. Also, I heard he was cremated and his ashes spread to eight locations...Nothing about a physical resurrection like Christ. Any Buddhists want to add? I'll find some literature to read.

Ex-Buddhist here. Buddha died from, basically, food poisoning from eating bad pork, at the age of 80. Similar to the Christian-Islam split, the Mahayana scriptures say Buddha "only appeared" to - if I recall. But, I was a Theravada Buddhist, not Mahayana, and their concepts are still kind of foreign to me.

Buddha being crucified is news to me, and these "some traditions" I find highly dubious. His birth was visited by some "wise men", for lack of a better word, but they said he had two options - a noble king or a noble religious man.

 

[Breathe]

The crucified Krishna is pictured on the cross with arms extended.

Where? I've never seen ANY crucified Krishna - Krishna was not crucified. Ask any Hindu.

Pierced by an arrow while hanging on the cross, Krishna died, but descended into Hell from which He rose again on the third day and ascended into Heaven. (The Gospel of Nicodemus tell of Jesus' descent into Hell.)

Uhm. Krishna died being shot with an arrow in his left foot.
Descending into hell... only in Jainism, NOT Hinduism - this is because within Jainism, there is a strict non-violence - and Krishna fought in battles.

He will return on the last day to judge the quick and the dead.

Source?

Krishna is the second person of the Hindu trinity.

Actually... no. Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu. Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu.

This sounds like stuff from Arachya S, to me. If it is, she talks so much crud and makes deceptions that it's awful and it's intellectual deceit of the highest order, proving that an atheist can be as deceitful as any creationist.

 

[matthew.william]

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristianity.html

Ex-Buddhist here. Buddha died from, basically, food poisoning from eating bad pork, at the age of 80. Similar to the Christian-Islam split, the Mahayana scriptures say Buddha "only appeared" to - if I recall. But, I was a Theravada Buddhist, not Mahayana, and their concepts are still kind of foreign to me.

Buddha being crucified is news to me, and these "some traditions" I find highly dubious. His birth was visited by some "wise men", for lack of a better word, but they said he had two options - a noble king or a noble religious man.

Had you ever heard of Buddha healing the sick or walking on water? I have never ever heard that before. Any books you would suggest me checking out about Buddha?

~matthew.william~

 

[matthew.william]

Where? I've never seen ANY crucified Krishna - Krishna was not crucified. Ask any Hindu.

Uhm. Krishna died being shot with an arrow in his left foot.
Descending into hell... only in Jainism, NOT Hinduism - this is because within Jainism, there is a strict non-violence - and Krishna fought in battles.

Source?

Actually... no. Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu. Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu.

This sounds like stuff from Arachya S, to me. If it is, she talks so much crud and makes deceptions that it's awful and it's intellectual deceit of the highest order, proving that an atheist can be as deceitful as any creationist.

Arachya S! That's the name! Oh, that was bothering me for a long time!

~matthew.william~

 

[Breathe]

Had you ever heard of Buddha healing the sick or walking on water? I have never ever heard that before. Any books you would suggest me checking out about Buddha?

~matthew.william~

Walking on water, there is supposedly something recoded of it - but I doubt its authenticity, because there are few mentions of it.
Walking On Water

But when we also compare what Buddha said to an ascetic who could walk on water, it truly is doubtful.

Parable of the Ferryboat

As for healing, I cannot recall anything on it. Considering that all of life is dukkha - "suffering", or for a better word, "uneasiness", to a Buddhist, then Buddha would have to heal a lot of things! It's possible for this reason that there are Medicine Boddhisattvas/Medicine Buddhas of Mahayana Buddhism and in some cases even within Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhism. I cannot remember any healing the sick miracles, but even if one shows me the scriptures...

Nobody wrote down what Buddha did or said for over 500 years, and it passed via word of mouth, it's difficult to say how much happened even if you believe it could, and how much is forgery - intentional or mistaken. - How am I supposed to believe this as reliable?