What is the universe? Which one seems more likely to you?

[YmirGF]

I'm not so sure we will ever really know if the universe is any of the 4 choices. It's and awfully large place and our incredibly small brains can only intuit so much data. My guess is that the answer to this question is a tad beyond our pay grade to answer. If only our intellectual honesty could help us understand that not knowing is completely OK.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If only our intellectual honesty could help us understand that not knowing is completely OK.

That is certainly better than clutching at metaphysical straws and making stuff up.

 

[George-ananda]

So kind of a spiritual simulation?

Kind of. Consciousness/God/Brahman is the fundamental and the universe is a derivative of the fundamental. The universe in this model is a thought-form of God/Brahman; ultimately a play/drama of consciousness.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well.. That kinda contradicts it self....

You have either natural... or un-natural...
There cannot be something in between...

I'll explain:

For example, you have a garden.... you grow tomatoes...
That is natural...
But one day, the tomatoes started being hugh...
Then it was un-natural...
But if the tomatoes continue growing Hugh all over... then it is considered natural...
Once you understand how something un-natural works... it becomes natural

*Processing, please wait....* So...if there were something in between the natural and the unnatural then it would simply be called natural? So natural by this definition could include some things that are partly natural and partly not natural?

 

[Quintessence]

This is how I see it. That seeing the nature of reality as one and knowing(or thinking) that all the universe was one, ought to make us more kind to each other. Its once we start thinking we are better than other animals or even better than other humans that I think problems can start very quickly and I do believe these type of outlooks affect how we treat the world and others around us. Thats my take anyway, can be very important questions to answer. Everything from the universe origins to evolution have an impact on these perceptions.

Yeah, it can have an impact. I like to ask that question - how does this story you tell influence how you behave (if at all)? Hard question to answer, as how we think it impacts our behavior and how it actually does are probably two different things.

There are several stories I tell about origins. One is that there was no origin... a narrative that reflects the circular view of time I have in general. Thinking of time as cyclical rather than linear means I do not see "ends" or "beginnings" I see changes, transformations. It means I don't regard death as an "end," accept that change is essential to our world... all of which helps avoid excessive or unhealthy attachment (I'm a little Buddhist in that regard, perhaps?). Another story emphasizes that there are limits to human abilities and knowledge... that some things are always mysteries. Such a mindset helps cultivate humility and recognizing one's limits instead of pretending they do not exist. Yet another story is the one often told through the sciences. The lesson it tells me is one of interconnectedness and relatedness... a lesson echoed in other stories I tell too. Those stories help me remember that all things are as brothers and sisters, and deserving of respect.

Perhaps a key point here is it is not the story itself that matters, but how I interpret it or find meaning in it... and then how the meaning impacts how I act. Others might not be this thoughtful in the stories the tell themselves, carefully weaving together narratives to support particular virtues they want to live by. In those cases, maybe what they think about origins really does not matter?

 

[idav]

Perhaps a key point here is it is not the story itself that matters, but how I interpret it or find meaning in it... and then how the meaning impacts how I act. Others might not be this thoughtful in the stories the tell themselves, carefully weaving together narratives to support particular virtues they want to live by. In those cases, maybe what they think about origins really does not matter?

I do find this often to be the case, where people just listen to the stories more for the entertainment value it serves. Which is fine too. For folks familiar with works by Joseph Cambpell in The Power of Myth, will likely see there can be tremendous meaning in our mythology. I sometimes do see the question come up, I can understand people sometimes will not read any particular significance in origin stories.

It isn't always obvious but origin ideas are foundational in nature in that it paints the world with a certain color of lens even without people realizing how much until doing more digging as to why we view nature in a certain light and how that impacts the way we view everything. Something as simple as the geocentric model where the earth is the center of the universe can impact how we view reality, even without realizing how much, and people don't have to think the earth is literally the center to have the mindset in which case it may as well be.

 

[Whiterain]

Existence is quite the conundrum... The void of the cosmos is acceptable, how material came to be is mind bending. What caused these reactions?

I'm puzzled on evolution and creationism... Evolution is growing to be quite evident, but there's so much arithmetic in nature with symmetric life it is also quite the brain teaser.

Life on this planet could have been engineered, like a natural process.. but there's arithmetic in the primordial ooz. An E.T. people may have had nothing to do with it, we just lucked out and spawned from some previous organic compounds that took seed in the terraforming of this planet. Or the first Gods were actually E.T's.... Then my ulcer starts hurting...

There's supposedly multiple universes, not that this one is mind bending enough... Perhaps there are beings worthy of being called a Gods out there and on this planet... I don't feel even they knew the truth, and chose satire.

But since I've come to realize Loki is real, the universe is fair, I don't really trouble over it anymore.

**Edit**

More over, there was this transitional period with in, I think, the Triassic period, they were like wolf reptiles, reptile dogs... It was crazy and so cool.. Wolf lizards.

Found it,
http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Lycaesaurus

Wolf Dragons. So funny.

lol i know thats from donkey kong, but I saw a documentary on discovery about them... They were pretty radical beasts... Well Dinosaurs anyway were pretty incredible.

 

[allfoak]

"THE ALL creates in its Infinite Mind countless Universes,
which exist for aeons of Time--and yet, to THE ALL, the
creation, development, decline and death of a million Universes
is as the time of the twinkling of an eye."--The Kybalion.

"The Infinite Mind of THE ALL is the womb of Universes."--The
Kybalion.


"Within the Father-Mother Mind, mortal children are at
home."--The Kybalion.

"There is not one who is Fatherless, nor Motherless in the
Universe."--The Kybalion.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb07.htm

Acts 17:28New International Version (NIV)
28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’a]">[a] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’b]">[b]

Footnotes:

1. Acts 17:28 From the Cretan philosopher Epimenides
2. Acts 17:28 From the Cilician Stoic philosopher Aratus

New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

Acts 17:28 in all English translations

 

[oldbadger]

That is certainly better than clutching at metaphysical straws and making stuff up.

Why not have some of 4, with a touch of 2?
Erik von Daniken rides again!

It's like this, back in the day when kids read Dan Dare mags and adults watched 'War of the Worlds' and 'Metropolis', if anybody had tried to describe the mobile 'phone and its amazing accessories such as video, camera, inter-world communication etc etc, and added that any schoolkid would have one..... they would have been laughed out of the room, or locked up somewhere safe.

So, although von Daniken has, err, lost ground... in recent decades, who is to say that space travellers did not land here and mess with our ancestors?

So, today, I would like a helping of number 4 please, with a side of number 2 as a taster.

 

[Segev Moran]

None of the above.

Any suggestions then?

 

[Segev Moran]

Kind of. Consciousness/God/Brahman is the fundamental and the universe is a derivative of the fundamental. The universe in this model is a thought-form of God/Brahman; ultimately a play/drama of consciousness.

And what is this theory based on?

 

[Willamena]

Any suggestions then?

The universe is the sum of all things.

D'uh.

 

[Segev Moran]

*Processing, please wait....* So...if there were something in between the natural and the unnatural then it would simply be called natural? So natural by this definition could include some things that are partly natural and partly not natural?

Nope,
That's not what i meant...
I Meant that you can see something as unnatural... (or partially un-natural) until you understand it's nature..
then it becomes natural

So for example.. in the far far past, a comet was considered unnatural... a symbol or a sign from the Gods..
Once science could describe it is a comet, and could explain what it really is... although the phenomenon still exists.. it is now considered natural.

I'll try to give another example...

Let say Ghost are real...
As long as science cannot explain Ghosts.. they are considered un-natural..
But let pretend that science found an unquestionable evidence that indeed when you die you become a ghost...
And then science will know to explain what it is (just for example a residue of atoms that are still part of your old material body)..
Than, a Ghost will no longer be considered an unnatural thing but rather a natural process...

Don't know if you've noticed.. but ALL unnatural things are without any shred of evidence... that's why we call it unnatural...
(I'm of course excluding slang like: "it's so not natural for him to do this....")

 

[George-ananda]

And what is this theory based on?

Vedic (Indian) science as given to us by the many seers and adepts that have perceived beyond the physical and explain the nature of the universe. After full consideration, I have found this wisdom tradition to be the most reasonable and advanced of mankind's wisdom traditions (including western science and western religion).

 

[Lighthouse]

Hi all,
These days there are numerous Major theories what our universe is...
In a nut shell:

1. Creationism - God, a super natural deity, created, designed and controls our universe.
2. Aliens - Our universe was created as an experiment / solution / mistake by an advanced alien specie
3. Simulation - Our universe is actually a computer simulation and we are all just an AI on some super advanced computer
4. Naturalism - All there is is Nature, Nothing more, Nothing less.

Regards.

4. Yet, then there could be God who is all natural. No one has God's drivers license if there is God to claim God's name is God and that God is supernatural or natural. It could be natural that there are fairies and unicorns flying around us right now in which we do not know.

 

[Lighthouse]

Nope,
That's not what i meant...
I Meant that you can see something as unnatural... (or partially un-natural) until you understand it's nature..
then it becomes natural

So for example.. in the far far past, a comet was considered unnatural... a symbol or a sign from the Gods..
Once science could describe it is a comet, and could explain what it really is... although the phenomenon still exists.. it is now considered natural.

I'll try to give another example...

Let say Ghost are real...
As long as science cannot explain Ghosts.. they are considered un-natural..
But let pretend that science found an unquestionable evidence that indeed when you die you become a ghost...
And then science will know to explain what it is (just for example a residue of atoms that are still part of your old material body)..
Than, a Ghost will no longer be considered an unnatural thing but rather a natural process...

Don't know if you've noticed.. but ALL unnatural things are without any shred of evidence... that's why we call it unnatural...
(I'm of course excluding slang like: "it's so not natural for him to do this....")

"Science" relies on faith that the human eyes are capable of seeing everything in existence so Id have to agree with you. It is termed not natural if it cannot be seen.
The ones who adhere to scientific laws will submit themselves to that control and call such pseudoscience. This is a buzz and hype word, I personally prefer to simply call it "not science." Because something is not science, does not mean that there isn't truth or reality to it. Agree, things that have been deemed "supernatural" once have become "natural." I don't see how this will change going forward.

 

[Segev Moran]

The universe is the sum of all things.

D'uh.

Unless there are multiple universes ...
Than it makes the universe a part of the sum of all things...

 

[Segev Moran]

Vedic (Indian) science as given to us by the many seers and adepts that have perceived beyond the physical and explain the nature of the universe. After full consideration, I have found this wisdom tradition to be the most reasonable and advanced of mankind's wisdom traditions (including western science and western religion).

Sorry.. I Have to comment about your use of the word "Science"...
science is a very specific term that describes the ability to measure, test and experiment in order to achieve knowledge and understanding of things...
I Cannot see how science can be relevant for things beyond the physical or the natural.
It like saying.. the Christian science.. or Jewish science or Islamic science..
There is no such thing.. there is only Science.

You can however say Vedic is a theory or a philosophy...

But thank you for the explanation.
And i have yet to come across any religion (or spirituality) you can call reasonable

 

[Segev Moran]

4. Yet, then there could be God who is all natural. No one has God's drivers license if there is God to claim God's name is God and that God is supernatural or natural. It could be natural that there are fairies and unicorns flying around us right now in which we do not know.

That's exactly my claim.. if Ghosts were natural.. they were under the Natural umbrella therefor something can be either natural or unnatural.. no inbetweens

 

[Willamena]

Unless there are multiple universes ...
Than it makes the universe a part of the sum of all things...

How so? Why must there be more than one?