This is how angels operate often times.

[thau]

The news report is from a Hannibal TV news station, yesterday 8/6/13. It is not from a religious web site or blog.

Mysterious priest performs miracle at site of Mercedes crash : News : ConnectTriStates.com

[Excerpt from article]
New London Fire Chief Raymond Reed says Lentz was pinned in between the steering wheel and the seat. After 45 minutes had passed, medical workers told rescue crews that Katie was failing and fast… About an hour into the rescue, Katie asked rescue workers to pray out loud with her. That's when a priest appeared out of no where.

"He came up and approached the patient, and offered a prayer," Reed said. "It was a Catholic priest who had anointing oil with him. A sense of calmness came over her, and it did us as well. I can't be for certain how it was said, but myself and another firefighter, we very plainly heard that we should remain calm, that our tools would now work and that we would get her out of that vehicle."

The Hannibal Fire Department showed up right after that prayer with fresh equipment and was able to finish the extrication. After getting Katie safely into the Air Evac helicopter, at least a dozen of the rescue workers turned around to thank the priest who was no where in sight. The highway had been blocked for a quarter of a mile during the hour and a half rescue, leaving no bystanders and no parked cars nearby. Lentz' family and friends are amazed by the story.

"Where did this guy come from?" Lentz' friend Travis Wiseman asked. "We're looking for the priest and so far, no one has seen him. Whether it was a priest as an angel or an actual angel, he was an angel to all those and to Katie."

 

[Riverwolf]

The news report is from a Hannibal TV news station, yesterday 8/6/13. It is not from a religious web site or blog.

But it's still a mainstream news station, which isn't much more reliable.

 

[George-ananda]

But it's still a mainstream news station, which isn't much more reliable.

How could such a report (and I've heard a number of them) ever be considered reliable by you?

 

[George-ananda]

The news report is from a Hannibal TV news station, yesterday 8/6/13. It is not from a religious web site or blog.

Mysterious priest performs miracle at site of Mercedes crash : News : ConnectTriStates.com

[Excerpt from article]
New London Fire Chief Raymond Reed says Lentz was pinned in between the steering wheel and the seat. After 45 minutes had passed, medical workers told rescue crews that Katie was failing and fast… About an hour into the rescue, Katie asked rescue workers to pray out loud with her. That's when a priest appeared out of no where.

"He came up and approached the patient, and offered a prayer," Reed said. "It was a Catholic priest who had anointing oil with him. A sense of calmness came over her, and it did us as well. I can't be for certain how it was said, but myself and another firefighter, we very plainly heard that we should remain calm, that our tools would now work and that we would get her out of that vehicle."

The Hannibal Fire Department showed up right after that prayer with fresh equipment and was able to finish the extrication. After getting Katie safely into the Air Evac helicopter, at least a dozen of the rescue workers turned around to thank the priest who was no where in sight. The highway had been blocked for a quarter of a mile during the hour and a half rescue, leaving no bystanders and no parked cars nearby. Lentz' family and friends are amazed by the story.

"Where did this guy come from?" Lentz' friend Travis Wiseman asked. "We're looking for the priest and so far, no one has seen him. Whether it was a priest as an angel or an actual angel, he was an angel to all those and to Katie."

Nice story. This one of a thousand seemingly 'paranormal' stories I've heard in my life.

I, of course, don't know if this story was a true 'paranormal' event. But I wonder, what are the chances every single paranormal seeming event I've ever heard was non-paranormal? (and I've heard some incredibly convincing ones from people I respect)

 

[thau]

Nice story. This one of a thousand seemingly 'paranormal' stories I've heard in my life.

I, of course, don't know if this story was a true 'paranormal' event. But I wonder, what are the chances every single paranormal seeming event I've ever heard was non-paranormal? (and I've heard some incredibly convincing ones from people I respect)

And that is a main contention you make George. Merely one more of a thousand of these paranormal events with eye witnesses. How can they all possibly be imagined? How can 10 witnesses all be lying or colluding? Such suggestions are almost hyper-implausible compared to "hey, maybe it is a supernatural thing?"

I have another one from about 5 years ago where a 10 year old boy was with his mother at a Pentecostal prayer service (I am Catholic) because he had a terrible condition of his whole body being covered with warts and after numerous doctors and treatments was declared virtually incurable. This was reported by an Atlanta TV station. Well, as the service went on, the boy kept telling his mother he say angels walking around the room. Neither his mother nor anyone else believed him, yet he kept insisting. It wasn't too much later and the warts all disappeared on the child's body.

I guess to the secular crowd that is quite a coincidence but still no proof of anything. Well, that then brings up your question, i.e. "is there anything you folks would ever endeavor to call reliable?"

 

[George-ananda]

And that is a main contention you make George. Merely one more of a thousand of these paranormal events with eye witnesses. How can they all possibly be imagined? How can 10 witnesses all be lying or colluding? Such suggestions are almost hyper-implausible compared to "hey, maybe it is a supernatural thing?"

Thau, Thau, Thau......why dost thau perscutest me?

You misinterpreted my post. You're attacking your own choir. I'm on your side on this debate.

I'm saying it's unreasonable to think ALL such stories are lies/hoaxes/delusions.

When I said 'Nice Story' it wasn't sarcastically though I see how you could read it that way.

 

[dgirl1986]

If it is a priest that really did this, then the ability to do what he did lies within him.

 

[sojourner]

This is how angels operate often times.

Most often they operate on household AC, 110 volt.

But they've been known to sometimes operate on 2 AA batteries.

Eveready Energizers, of course.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Now this is what i see happening here, a bad car crash, no hope for survives, but out of thin/fat air come a "angel" dressed as a catholic priest, says a prayer, and miraculously all is well.

Not to be rude, but maybe they should be thanking God, who let this accident happen in the first place so he could send one of his "angels", to have a prayer.

And, the prayer did not work, the tools did not work on their own as told to the fire chief.

"He came up and approached the patient, and offered a prayer," Reed said. "It was a Catholic priest who had anointing oil with him. A sense of calmness came over her, and it did us as well. I can't be for certain how it was said, but myself and another firefighter, we very plainly heard that we should remain calm, that our tools would now work and that we would get her out of that vehicle."

The Hannibal Fire Department showed up right after that prayer with fresh equipment and was able to finish the extrication.

The fire department came with NEW equipment, not that the tools that did not work started working.

What is going on here.... Supernatural indeed.

 

[George-ananda]

Now this is what i see happening here, a bad car crash, no hope for survives, but out of thin/fat air come a "angel" dressed as a catholic priest, says a prayer, and miraculously all is well.

Not to be rude, but maybe they should be thanking God, who let this accident happen in the first place so he could send one of his "angels", to have a prayer.

And, the prayer did not work, the tools did not work on their own as told to the fire chief.



The fire department came with NEW equipment, not that the tools that did not work started working.

What is going on here.... Supernatural indeed.

So who/what do you theorize this appearing and then disappearing priest that happened to be carrying anointing oils was?

I think the priest may have been referring to the newly arriving tools as what will now work.

Do you have a problem with it being a 'Catholic' priest? I don't. Isn't it compatible with Sanatana Dharma that higher entities can come in forms people of particular religions expect? I think so.

Why the harsh attitude?

 

[Philomath]

Where are these "Angels" all the others times accidents happen?

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=George-ananda;3444526]So who/what do you theorize this appearing and then disappearing priest that happened to be carrying anointing oils was?

Coincidence maybe..

The priest did not just disappear or appear, he came and prayed and left, simple.

I think the priest may have been referring to the newly arriving tools as what will now work.

Well, that is not what the article says, please try and read the extract again.

Do you have a problem with it being a 'Catholic' priest? I don't. Isn't it compatible with Sanatana Dharma that higher entities can come in forms people of particular religions expect? I think so.

No, nothing to do with Catholics and i don't think this is compatible with Sanantana Dharmah at all.

Why the harsh attitude?

Not harsh mate, just realistic, instead of praising the hardworking people who actually saved the people, they have to make it supernatural and in doing this God takes the credit of saving them through his angel, but the reality is the priest just happened to be there, the fire services were already bringing the new equipment and due to the hard work of the paramedics and the fireees all worked out well. but who is the hero in the end, a priest who did nothing but pray, if it was this easy for angels to save lives, why do we have emergency services?

If it was a angel who came to earth and prayed, why not stay and prove himself to be a angel?

 

[Riverwolf]

How could such a report (and I've heard a number of them) ever be considered reliable by you?

Mainstream news doesn't seek to accurately report anything, they're trying to get viewers/readers, because that equals $$$. As a result, they print what will be read/watched, regardless of how accurate it is.

In order for this kind of thing to be believable, then this exact sort of thing should be so common that automobile accidents aren't much of a danger at all. Where was this "angel" when one of the students at my high school died in a terrible car accident?

 

[thau]

Mainstream news doesn't seek to accurately report anything, they're trying to get viewers/readers, because that equals $$$. As a result, they print what will be read/watched, regardless of how accurate it is.

In order for this kind of thing to be believable, then this exact sort of thing should be so common that automobile accidents aren't much of a danger at all. Where was this "angel" when one of the students at my high school died in a terrible car accident?

With all due respect, you appear to be changing the subject. No one would deny that the human condition cannot escape grief and suffering and dread. I do not believe it was ever God's intention to rectify the sufferings humanity endures but to give us purpose and hope. LIfe is a trial, not intended to be a pleasant journey or a final triumph unto itself.

Is it fair to say to God, "I am not interested in your signs and wonders until you satisfy my regrets or demands"?

 

[thau]

Thau, Thau, Thau......why dost thau perscutest me?

You misinterpreted my post. You're attacking your own choir. I'm on your side on this debate.

I'm saying it's unreasonable to think ALL such stories are lies/hoaxes/delusions.

When I said 'Nice Story' it wasn't sarcastically though I see how you could read it that way.

thanks george-ananada, but methinks you misinterpreted me in kind.

The questions I was asking in my response were intended to be representative of you asking them yourself once again. I knew you were not being sarcastic, nor was I.

However, if I or another persecute you, you can construe that as a good thing. The Beatitudes in Matthew 5:11 bears this out.

 

[Riverwolf]

With all due respect, you appear to be changing the subject. No one would deny that the human condition cannot escape grief and suffering and dread. I do not believe it was ever God's intention to rectify the sufferings humanity endures but to give us purpose and hope. LIfe is a trial, not intended to be a pleasant journey or a final triumph unto itself.

Would that there were any repeatable indication of that.

Is it fair to say to God, "I am not interested in your signs and wonders until you satisfy my regrets or demands"?

Yes, if those "signs and wonders" present themselves in such a way that they're far more likely to be mundane than miraculous.

 

[thau]

And, the prayer did not work, the tools did not work on their own as told to the fire chief.

The fire department came with NEW equipment, not that the tools that did not work started working.

Are you suggesting that when the “priest angel” said “their tools would now work” that he could only be referring to the tools currently on the scene, and the fact the Hannibal F.D. showed up momentarily with new tools that worked --- that this made a mockery or liar out of the priest?

If so, I find such an argument to be rather strange. I mean, here we have this “stranger” show up from nowhere (according to all witnesses at the scene) and then virtually vanish quickly after the FD appears (according to all witnesses) perplexing everyone, especially given the fact the road was blocked off. Isn’t this what makes this account so hard to believe? Isn’t that what makes it a news story, plus his calming affect on everyone present and his holy oil?

How can you suggest that a little incongruity in how you interpret his prophetic assurances discredit what took place?

 

[Riverwolf]

Are you suggesting that when the “priest angel” said “their tools would now work” that he could only be referring to the tools currently on the scene, and the fact the Hannibal F.D. showed up momentarily with new tools that worked --- that this made a mockery or liar out of the priest?

If so, I find such an argument to be rather strange. I mean, here we have this “stranger” show up from nowhere (according to all witnesses at the scene) and then virtually vanish quickly after the FD appears (according to all witnesses) perplexing everyone, especially given the fact the road was blocked off. Isn’t this what makes this account so hard to believe? Isn’t that what makes it a news story, plus his calming affect on everyone present and his holy oil?

How can you suggest that a little incongruity in how you interpret his prophetic assurances discredit what took place?

That's not what's discrediting it. What's discrediting it is the fact that it's being reported in a mainstream news source. I have no reason to trust that it's being reported exactly as happened, and every reason to believe it's being reported in such a way as to get as many readers as possible.

And for the record, eye-witness testimony is the lowest form of evidence in terms of reliability.

 

[George-ananda]

Where are these "Angels" all the others times accidents happen?

That comment is trying to turn the question to the famous 'Problem of Evil' question. That has been discussed in various forms on many, many threads.

Miracles happen and don't happen for a long variety of reasons and karmic cause/effect we can't see from our physical-only, one life-only limited perspective.

 

[Riverwolf]

That comment is trying to turn the question to the famous 'Problem of Evil' question. That has been discussed in various forms on many, many threads.

Miracles happen and don't happen for a long variety of reasons and karmic cause/effect we can't see from our physical-only, one life-only limited perspective.

But accepting that it's Karmic cause/effect demonstrates that the supposedly all-loving God is either unwilling or unable to intervene with it.

If he's unable, then he's not omnipotent. If he's unwilling, then either he's not all-loving after all, or there's things that, for whatever reason, he's not telling us.

Then we're brought again to the either unwilling or unable, in this case about telling us about the complexities we can't see right away. If, for whatever reason, he's unwilling, fine, but then it's COMPLETELY unreasonable to expect us to believe in him automatically, and then to punish us for not doing so (if he doesn't, then all is well.) If unable, same problem as before.