It's also her foreign policy.
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The Walking Dead
- Thread starter Watchmen
- Start date
That's it, I'm voting for Negan.
As usual, Carol rules!
But Maggie ain't no slouch.
But Maggie ain't no slouch.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I love when Carole goes bad ***.
She is indeed the most interesting character.....even if she weren't fetching.I love when Carole goes bad ***.
I find the latest episodes puzzling. While the actress is talented and delivering, Carol's characterization is not completely explainable.
Too much focus on Carol, too little on Morgan. I expect that to change soon, since otherwise there would be little point to having the character in this season at all.
As for Carol... any way you slice it, her road ahead will be very difficult. I don't expect that she will survive to Season 7, although a part of me wishes she did. But the hints that they will develop the situation properly just aren't there.
Speaking of hints, I suspect that Negan and the Saviors will turn out to be significantly different from the comics version. Episode 13 ("The Same Boat") all but spelled it out.
Too much focus on Carol, too little on Morgan. I expect that to change soon, since otherwise there would be little point to having the character in this season at all.
As for Carol... any way you slice it, her road ahead will be very difficult. I don't expect that she will survive to Season 7, although a part of me wishes she did. But the hints that they will develop the situation properly just aren't there.
Speaking of hints, I suspect that Negan and the Saviors will turn out to be significantly different from the comics version. Episode 13 ("The Same Boat") all but spelled it out.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
It pains me to say that I think you're right. I'm getting the same feeling.
No kidding!Oh man. . .
Looks like TV Denise took comicbook Abrahams arrow for him:
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Wonderful, we have to wait until October to find out what we've been waiting for all season long. This is that Glen dumpster BS all over again.
So who do you think it will be?
My guess...
So who do you think it will be?
My guess...
... Abraham. It's a win/win for the show runners because they don't have to kill off fan favorites Glen or Daryl, and it's no real loss for the story because he was supposed to take the arrow that Denise took anyways. Also, he's kind of been given a decent story this season and we got to be a little emotional with him, which the writers like to do with a character before they kill them off so it makes it a stronger death.
That's who I think it probably will be, but who do I hope it will be? Glen. He's always been my least favorite character, and after the dumpster incident I think he's just used up all of his extra lives, and Abraham's one of my favorite characters so I don't want to see him go.
That's who I think it probably will be, but who do I hope it will be? Glen. He's always been my least favorite character, and after the dumpster incident I think he's just used up all of his extra lives, and Abraham's one of my favorite characters so I don't want to see him go.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
My guess is either Abraham or Eugene. Abraham because of the reasons @freethinker44 mentioned, and Eugene because of the touching moments about how he has progressed and how he has gained respect from the others. That sort of thing is usually followed by death.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I was thinking Abraham too. I feel like they're been prepping us for his death over the last few episodes.
Also bet it's going to be Abraham. In other news, I'm disappointed with their casting choice for Negan. Negans one of the most interesting characters in the comics, and it's his Stalin meets Andrew Dice Clay personality that makes him so. This Negan (the TV one) has me bored already. Too laid back; not nearly volatile enough; doesn't seem to be enjoying his job as much as he should be. He's also about 10 years older and maybe 60 lbs lighter than he should be. Other than that, I thought the finale was well done. Very edge-of-your-seat.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Really? I thought Jeffrey Dean Morgan was a good casting choice. He did look too thin and young though, but we've accepted much more drastic differences from the comics, just look at Carol.
Well, Carol's really a brand new character: only resemblance I see between her and comic book Carol is the name and the fact that they both had daughter's named Sophia.
The objection I have to Jeffrey Dean Morgan is that I can already see that his Negan is going to be a different character from the comic book Negan, which is a shame because, like I said earlier, I think the comic book Negan is one of the most interesting characters. Just seems like a waste of decent material that was already there.
The objection I have to Jeffrey Dean Morgan is that I can already see that his Negan is going to be a different character from the comic book Negan, which is a shame because, like I said earlier, I think the comic book Negan is one of the most interesting characters. Just seems like a waste of decent material that was already there.
Finally all caught up with this show. I had the luxury of watching all 6 seasons within 2 years, never once seeing it with commercials nor having to wait a full week between episodes. I know from watching other shows that this matters to the viewing experience. Though I did have to wait a good 6 months between S5 and S6. Now I have to wait another month between my end of S6 and S7.
My favorite characters are (in order):
Rick
Daryl
Glenn
Michonne
And the rest
If anyone of those (first 4) are gone by E1,S7 - I'd be disappointed, but considering one of them was gone during S6, it wouldn't mean the show's no longer fun to watch, just that what the character brings to the table is IMO not something that can be easily recaptured. Started rewatching the entire series and is nice to see Rick, Daryl and Glenn in first couple episodes.
I like Carol and Morgan and see much discussion on them, but my take on that is writer's exploring the narrative they've created, more so than them truly evolving the main narrative. That's (all) on Rick. If Rick goes, it would be very challenging to recapture what he brings to the table in another character. It obviously can be done, but I doubt it could be done well. It's really just how stories are written. The film Psycho is one of the only stories I'm aware to ever kill off it's main (first act, first half) character and well that story is at whole other level that I don't think most can even fathom.
Being my introductory post, I will just note that I really like the show, and found S6 to be great. It would take a full re-watch for me to decide on which seasons I think are better than others, but so far I think they are all about equally great. At time I got into the show, I had close friends telling me to skip S2 because of how slow it is. After seeing all of it, I decided I liked S2 more than S1. Admittedly though, if I had to wait a full week (or more like a full month) to see certain sub-plots play out, I could see that as annoying from fan perspective. I went through all of S2 in about a week, so didn't have that experience of this is significantly dragging.
In the last paragraph I meant to add (as main point) that while I find Walking Dead great, it still isn't as great IMO as the show 24. I put that on a pedestal as greatest TV show (non-comedy) of all time. All subjective opinion, but 24 was rarely slow moving and had much more to like IMO, not the least of which it is 24 episodes to a season rather than 16.
I did expect more talk on the cliffhanger at end of S6 in this thread, and perhaps that exists in another thread? Anyway, my take is: (and I'll use spoiler tags for that, I guess):
My favorite characters are (in order):
Rick
Daryl
Glenn
Michonne
And the rest
If anyone of those (first 4) are gone by E1,S7 - I'd be disappointed, but considering one of them was gone during S6, it wouldn't mean the show's no longer fun to watch, just that what the character brings to the table is IMO not something that can be easily recaptured. Started rewatching the entire series and is nice to see Rick, Daryl and Glenn in first couple episodes.
I like Carol and Morgan and see much discussion on them, but my take on that is writer's exploring the narrative they've created, more so than them truly evolving the main narrative. That's (all) on Rick. If Rick goes, it would be very challenging to recapture what he brings to the table in another character. It obviously can be done, but I doubt it could be done well. It's really just how stories are written. The film Psycho is one of the only stories I'm aware to ever kill off it's main (first act, first half) character and well that story is at whole other level that I don't think most can even fathom.
Being my introductory post, I will just note that I really like the show, and found S6 to be great. It would take a full re-watch for me to decide on which seasons I think are better than others, but so far I think they are all about equally great. At time I got into the show, I had close friends telling me to skip S2 because of how slow it is. After seeing all of it, I decided I liked S2 more than S1. Admittedly though, if I had to wait a full week (or more like a full month) to see certain sub-plots play out, I could see that as annoying from fan perspective. I went through all of S2 in about a week, so didn't have that experience of this is significantly dragging.
In the last paragraph I meant to add (as main point) that while I find Walking Dead great, it still isn't as great IMO as the show 24. I put that on a pedestal as greatest TV show (non-comedy) of all time. All subjective opinion, but 24 was rarely slow moving and had much more to like IMO, not the least of which it is 24 episodes to a season rather than 16.
I did expect more talk on the cliffhanger at end of S6 in this thread, and perhaps that exists in another thread? Anyway, my take is: (and I'll use spoiler tags for that, I guess):
I don't know who makes the most sense to kill off based only on what the TV show is presenting. It was obvious the episode was building the stakes to be someone fairly important, and all present in the final moments of the episode are. I think Eugene makes the most sense, but not a lot. I could make a case for each character, like Rosita would possibly make the most sense at this point. Some characters though, would be damaging to the main plot narrative if they were gone.
The characters I mentioned above in the post would be least favorite for me to get killed off, but as they already did a test run with Glenn, it wouldn't be too hard to take. I just see if they start knocking off those characters, the show going in a direction that brings an end to the Rick narrative. Not a quick end, and they could drag it out for another 3 seasons or so, but Rick needs people that fully get what he's about and have been around for the longhaul. Rick needs to know he can fully trust them, and that they are truly family to him. Carl for sure fits that, but seeing that they killed off his (Rick's) wife, it only leaves Carl now as main thing that would motivate Rick to go on the rampage he did during S6 (in Alexandria) to bring all characters strength/confidence to overcome such insurmountable odds (20 people fighting thousands of walkers, in the dark).
So, given that I'm a newbie, and that there is information outside the show (comic book) to help fans understand direction writers are likely to go in, I have chosen to investigate fan theories, or outright spoilers. I've seen no outright spoilers. But from what I can tell, it is likely Glenn - according to fans. Or more likely both Abraham and Sasha are killed in S7, E1. Negan kills off Abraham (first), Sasha gets emotional and is then killed. I like both characters and like that they found a love for each other, but within the overall narrative it is certainly an acceptable loss.
The characters I mentioned above in the post would be least favorite for me to get killed off, but as they already did a test run with Glenn, it wouldn't be too hard to take. I just see if they start knocking off those characters, the show going in a direction that brings an end to the Rick narrative. Not a quick end, and they could drag it out for another 3 seasons or so, but Rick needs people that fully get what he's about and have been around for the longhaul. Rick needs to know he can fully trust them, and that they are truly family to him. Carl for sure fits that, but seeing that they killed off his (Rick's) wife, it only leaves Carl now as main thing that would motivate Rick to go on the rampage he did during S6 (in Alexandria) to bring all characters strength/confidence to overcome such insurmountable odds (20 people fighting thousands of walkers, in the dark).
So, given that I'm a newbie, and that there is information outside the show (comic book) to help fans understand direction writers are likely to go in, I have chosen to investigate fan theories, or outright spoilers. I've seen no outright spoilers. But from what I can tell, it is likely Glenn - according to fans. Or more likely both Abraham and Sasha are killed in S7, E1. Negan kills off Abraham (first), Sasha gets emotional and is then killed. I like both characters and like that they found a love for each other, but within the overall narrative it is certainly an acceptable loss.
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Again, I'm currently re-watching the entire series. At rate I'm going, I'll probably end right around when S7, E1 comes out.
Anyway, after 8 episodes in, I'm picking up on a few things that I didn't necessarily pick up the first time around. One of them is the religious aspect. I for sure got some of that the first time around (kind of hard to miss), but one scene in particular does stand out, IMO, on re-watch. In S2, E1, they go to church thinking Sophia (Carol's daughter) may be there. Carol goes in to pray (or really plea). There's that, and that's hard to miss. What happens after this, I think is either hard to miss or is matter of interpretation. They all come out of church, and some want to leave that location, others (mainly Rick) wants to stay, thinking Sophia may come there after hearing church bells ringing. Rick then goes into the church and also pleas, letting it be known he is non-believer. He then asks for a sign, any sort of sign to help guide them. They then all come out of church and split up. About 5 to 10 minutes later, Carl gets shot.
Now, that does obviously suck. But given how everything is written, it is surely leading Rick to a greater group of people who can help him on his path, and enlarge the group of good guys. So, I'm saying the prayer is what leads Rick to Herschel (and/or Maggie).
The major drawback to this logic, though is debatable, is because most of the action / tragedy revolves around Rick's character, the show is written such that wherever Rick goes, people (who were otherwise safe, in some instances, like the farm) will die. As that happens routinely, and is partially to mostly what makes the main plot so compelling, it really is a tragic narrative. Might help Rick to run into Herschel, but doesn't help Herschel all that much to have had Rick run into him. For awhile yes, but well, ya know.
Anyway, after 8 episodes in, I'm picking up on a few things that I didn't necessarily pick up the first time around. One of them is the religious aspect. I for sure got some of that the first time around (kind of hard to miss), but one scene in particular does stand out, IMO, on re-watch. In S2, E1, they go to church thinking Sophia (Carol's daughter) may be there. Carol goes in to pray (or really plea). There's that, and that's hard to miss. What happens after this, I think is either hard to miss or is matter of interpretation. They all come out of church, and some want to leave that location, others (mainly Rick) wants to stay, thinking Sophia may come there after hearing church bells ringing. Rick then goes into the church and also pleas, letting it be known he is non-believer. He then asks for a sign, any sort of sign to help guide them. They then all come out of church and split up. About 5 to 10 minutes later, Carl gets shot.
Now, that does obviously suck. But given how everything is written, it is surely leading Rick to a greater group of people who can help him on his path, and enlarge the group of good guys. So, I'm saying the prayer is what leads Rick to Herschel (and/or Maggie).
The major drawback to this logic, though is debatable, is because most of the action / tragedy revolves around Rick's character, the show is written such that wherever Rick goes, people (who were otherwise safe, in some instances, like the farm) will die. As that happens routinely, and is partially to mostly what makes the main plot so compelling, it really is a tragic narrative. Might help Rick to run into Herschel, but doesn't help Herschel all that much to have had Rick run into him. For awhile yes, but well, ya know.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
Responding to Acim's spoiler...
The problem with the "cliffhanger" is that it really isn't one, exacerbated by head writer, Scott Gimpel's, arrogance which only irritated fans more than the episode itself. It's not really a cliffhanger given the majority of the ep meshes with canon from the graphic novel and, whether people have personally read it or not, most know how it ends. A cliffhanger presents a situation that seems to be leading to a foregone conclusion but doesn't necessarily and is open ended, presenting a wealth of possibilities. E.g., will someone actually be killed, and if whoever is killed will it be one of Rick's group or a surprise twist? Will one of Rick's succeed in reaching Negan to intervene, will someone else arrive to do so? Will a walker herd suddenly appear and inadvertently save the day, etc.
A cliffhanger would have ended with something like Negan, having already killed whomever, turning around and saying something menacing that alludes to "but wait, there's more" and not giving any indication what all that may be other than terrifying for the group who is already reeling from seeing one of their own killed.
There was no suspense, most viewers know how it's going to end. The only "twist" is whether Gimple decides to go with the same victim as the graphic novel.
Personally, I think it will be Glenn since he's long outlasted his usefulness and he's escaped death too many times to escape again. Though I think Negan will kill two people, mainly so Gimple can justify the finale ("see, it's not like the comic, a second person was killed so we had to end it there" yeah, ok). Out of the lot, that will probably be Abraham since he was the most defiant. It can't be Rick because breaking him into submission just makes the others fall in line that much faster.
A cliffhanger would have ended with something like Negan, having already killed whomever, turning around and saying something menacing that alludes to "but wait, there's more" and not giving any indication what all that may be other than terrifying for the group who is already reeling from seeing one of their own killed.
There was no suspense, most viewers know how it's going to end. The only "twist" is whether Gimple decides to go with the same victim as the graphic novel.
Personally, I think it will be Glenn since he's long outlasted his usefulness and he's escaped death too many times to escape again. Though I think Negan will kill two people, mainly so Gimple can justify the finale ("see, it's not like the comic, a second person was killed so we had to end it there" yeah, ok
). Out of the lot, that will probably be Abraham since he was the most defiant. It can't be Rick because breaking him into submission just makes the others fall in line that much faster.Responding to Acim's spoiler...
The problem with the "cliffhanger" is that it really isn't one, exacerbated by head writer, Scott Gimpel's, arrogance which only irritated fans more than the episode itself. It's not really a cliffhanger given the majority of the ep meshes with canon from the graphic novel and, whether people have personally read it or not, most know how it ends. A cliffhanger presents a situation that seems to be leading to a foregone conclusion but doesn't necessarily and is open ended, presenting a wealth of possibilities. E.g., will someone actually be killed, and if whoever is killed will it be one of Rick's group or a surprise twist? Will one of Rick's succeed in reaching Negan to intervene, will someone else arrive to do so? Will a walker herd suddenly appear and inadvertently save the day, etc.
A cliffhanger would have ended with something like Negan, having already killed whomever, turning around and saying something menacing that alludes to "but wait, there's more" and not giving any indication what all that may be other than terrifying for the group who is already reeling from seeing one of their own killed.
There was no suspense, most viewers know how it's going to end. The only "twist" is whether Gimple decides to go with the same victim as the graphic novel.
Personally, I think it will be Glenn since he's long outlasted his usefulness and he's escaped death too many times to escape again. Though I think Negan will kill two people, mainly so Gimple can justify the finale ("see, it's not like the comic, a second person was killed so we had to end it there" yeah, ok
I guess I have to respond with spoiler tags, even while I still have no clue:
I disagree with this not being a cliffhanger. To me, a very popular and rather old cliffhanger is "Who Shot J.R.?" I honestly can't remember who did, but that was a very popular one back in the day.
I've looked at so many fan theories now, I'm not really sure who it'll be at this point.
I realize comics have it as Glenn and had Abraham killed earlier, so makes sense to off him as well. I do think currently that this is the safest bet, that both are killed: first Abraham, then Glenn.
But there are a wealth of possibilities. I was reading just yesterday that it could be 3 that are killed, and would make some sense to kill Maggie as well in that grouping. I realize that goes against comics, but that would certainly be gut wrenching (as director, I think recently expressed). So, the idea that it is at least one, has a good 8 viable options, then if it's 2, it has a whole bunch more, and if its 3, then many more.
Plus I just learned that in comics, way earlier (with Governor) Rick gets his arm chopped off. IMO, that would make sense to have that occur in this upcoming episode. I'm under the impression they will not go there, but is another possibility.
I do think it is possible it could be Daryl, but do realize now more than I previously did, that it would be BFD from fan base. Honestly though from my rather newbie self that has watched nearly all episodes twice, and has idea of direction they are going in for S7, I don't see Daryl as all that necessary anymore. Prior to midway through S6, I think it would've been a huge mistake. I think killing off Rick is a huge mistake, but may feel differently after S7 given the direction I'm under the impression they are going in. I currently think killing Glenn would be worse for the show than killing Daryl, and Daryl is still my 2nd favorite. From what I understand about Glenn in comics, I can see why a fan of that would have no issue with Glenn being killed off.
I've looked at so many fan theories now, I'm not really sure who it'll be at this point.
I realize comics have it as Glenn and had Abraham killed earlier, so makes sense to off him as well. I do think currently that this is the safest bet, that both are killed: first Abraham, then Glenn.
But there are a wealth of possibilities. I was reading just yesterday that it could be 3 that are killed, and would make some sense to kill Maggie as well in that grouping. I realize that goes against comics, but that would certainly be gut wrenching (as director, I think recently expressed). So, the idea that it is at least one, has a good 8 viable options, then if it's 2, it has a whole bunch more, and if its 3, then many more.
Plus I just learned that in comics, way earlier (with Governor) Rick gets his arm chopped off. IMO, that would make sense to have that occur in this upcoming episode. I'm under the impression they will not go there, but is another possibility.
I do think it is possible it could be Daryl, but do realize now more than I previously did, that it would be BFD from fan base. Honestly though from my rather newbie self that has watched nearly all episodes twice, and has idea of direction they are going in for S7, I don't see Daryl as all that necessary anymore. Prior to midway through S6, I think it would've been a huge mistake. I think killing off Rick is a huge mistake, but may feel differently after S7 given the direction I'm under the impression they are going in. I currently think killing Glenn would be worse for the show than killing Daryl, and Daryl is still my 2nd favorite. From what I understand about Glenn in comics, I can see why a fan of that would have no issue with Glenn being killed off.
With all that said, I really don't see a fan out there speaking with genuine confidence about how S7:E1 will go, with regards to Negan. I see lots of cocky type assertions that could pan out, but that type of fan theorizing is easy to see for the cockiness that it is. And is why part of me thinks none of this stuff even needs spoiler tags. Once we learn the information, then spoiler tags make sense, but truly there's a whole world of speculation going on right about now.