You had a query about the habits and I addressed it. *shrug*
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So why exactly do the Abrahamic religions teach women to dress this way?
- Thread starter NewChapter
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Draka
Wonder Woman
Well, I knew about burqas being different colors, nuns habits, however, were a different thing. And really, I wouldn't count that one nun as wearing a habit. I've never seen a habit in other than black, so wondered if there was a reason for that.
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***Mod Post***
This is the Abrahamic Religions DIR. If you are an outsider to the DIR, please limit your posts to respectful questions and keep Rule 10 in mind while posting.
This is the Abrahamic Religions DIR. If you are an outsider to the DIR, please limit your posts to respectful questions and keep Rule 10 in mind while posting.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Didn't even notice what DIR this was in. Feel free to delete my post where I answered on the first page, though I did have some questions I thought I have asked respectfully which would be nice to keep I think. Where do the restrictions come from in certain denominations if not biblical? Are there reasons for particular color choices in such apparel?
Well, she is wearing the clothing of her order. She's Congolese and it reflects her culture. Just like the Missionaries of Charity styled their habits after Indian saris to reflect the culture they live in.
You just must not be familiar with Catholic nuns, really. It's usually the Benedictines that wear black, but there's many other orders.
More than likely its a bit of both.
Hello sweet image search results.I'll be your "Mrs. Robinson."
Those eyes, those beautiful eyes. *sigh*
Wow Draka, I don't think Ive ever seen you this excited!
Draka
Wonder Woman
Well, now that I think about it, the first and fourth pictures there look familiar when it comes to the habits. Hadn't seen the blue though. I thought only novices wore brown. While I am quite familiar with Catholicism, given the huge Catholic family on my mother's side, I haven't been exposed to a great many nuns and I'm thinking it also has a lot to do with areas, correct? Probably not going to see a lot of blue habits where I am is what I'm thinking.Well, she is wearing the clothing of her order. She's Congolese and it reflects her culture. Just like the Missionaries of Charity styled their habits after Indian saris to reflect the culture they live in.
You just must not be familiar with Catholic nuns, really. It's usually the Benedictines that wear black, but there's many other orders.
Blue is also a common color for burqas as well. I do have to wonder if there is some connection when it comes to colors of such religious apparel in the Abrahamic faiths.
Habits have nothing to do with burqas and Catholicism and Islam are two very different religions. The colors and types of habits have meaning to the specific order.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Grannies used to wear scarfs in the countryside in my childhood, but it more of a thing to look good for church or when working in the field or in the sun.
arthra
Baha'i
I think "Habits" or nuns wearing them came from the Orders they belonged to... I haven't seen nuns wearing "Habits" for awhile
as for Baha'is we have no monastic orders but stress modesty in dress for males and females regardless.
'Such a chaste and holy life, with its implications of modesty, purity, temperance, decency and clean-mindedness, involves no less than the exercise of moderation in all that pertains to dress, language, amusements, and all artistic and literary avocations. It demands daily vigilance in the control of one's carnal desires and corrupt inclinations.'
- Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Baha'i Faith
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 364)
as for Baha'is we have no monastic orders but stress modesty in dress for males and females regardless.
'Such a chaste and holy life, with its implications of modesty, purity, temperance, decency and clean-mindedness, involves no less than the exercise of moderation in all that pertains to dress, language, amusements, and all artistic and literary avocations. It demands daily vigilance in the control of one's carnal desires and corrupt inclinations.'
- Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Baha'i Faith
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 364)
They don't. Any more.
Thank you for all answers,
Noah ("NewChapter")
Since there are no monasteries mentioned in the Bible or even the recommendation of a monastic life, where will I find the idea of monks and nuns in first century Christianity?
I know there are monks and nuns in Buddhism but I can't find anything resembling them among the first Christians. Where did the black robes come from?
I know there are monks and nuns in Buddhism but I can't find anything resembling them among the first Christians. Where did the black robes come from?
At least some of these base their plain clothes on scriptures such as Isaiah 3:18-23 and 1 Peter 3:3. Isaiah was prophesying distress for the haughty apostate women of Jerusalem, not making rules as to dress. I believe 1 Peter 3:3 admonishes Christian women to pay primary attention on the inner person, not external dress. On the other hand, the Bible does not forbid jewelry and fine clothes. Ezekiel 16:11-13 speaks of Jehovah symbolically adorning his people with such things, for example.
NewChapter
GiveMeATicketToWork
What about the women in post #25, this post: http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...-to-dress-this-way.184788/page-2#post-4642641 ?
So why do Abrahamic religions teach to dress like (Hijab)? To answer we need to look at Human from different perspectives:
From the natural and physical perspective:
In an extreme case imagine, a woman is captured and suddenly tossed fully naked into a busy street! What is the natural/instinct reaction? (…Even the most experience pro-nudity women would at least be startled!)
She tries to run for cover or hide or at least cover the private parts, some may even curl down and sit trying to minimize the coverage!
What would nearby people do? Obviously some people just gaze! Some decent men may look away! And some other people may try to find some clothes to cover her!
It is NATURAL and by INSTINCT and it is not just women, men too react in similar ways, though the reaction and its impact is much more intense in women. Those men who look away, know and feel that by looking they would be unjustly invading her!
In a different example, imagine an individual male or female is wearing a special clothing which is only covering everything except the parts it should! This guy/gal is also tossed into the street, what would be the reaction? Same reaction, or very similar!
We all should agree that an average human being with an average upbringing regardless of nationality would universally act in the same way.
The private parts are either used for reproduction or removing the waste! It is natural to cover them.
Now think about your mobile phone, some ports such as where memory or SIM is inserted are covered or have a cover. It just seems more natural and nice to hide them, because their function is not needed all the time, you only need them when you want to add or remove and from the design point of view, when covered they look better too. However a USB port for example is regularly used so there is no point hiding it.
People’s clothing often cover 90% of body surface! A normal businessman would have only his hand and face showing assuming he is not wearing shades.
Indeed clothes have many other functions, they protect from temperature or other physical harm, represent the identity, belief and class of the individual, they enhance work, make you look nice, etc... But the most basic function is to simply cover and hide!
Sexual appeal is tied to reproduction, when a woman is not covered enough and furthermore acts to attract, she immediately becomes a target; it is a natural instinct response from men, even old men that she is ready and really looking to find a mate for reproduction purposes! Sure society may train you to think somewhat differently, for instance to think that it is normal to be half naked or think that she is just showing what she has on the shelf so buyers can choose before buying! However we all know that when instincts take over what could potentially happen, so covering the body seems to be a self-defense for normal women who are not sellers but choosers, and want to find their perfect/choice man.
This is funny…but how many buyers can there be? In fact why should there be so many sales!? From this point on these questions can be answered only from a social point of view.
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Edited: added title in red!
From the natural and physical perspective:
In an extreme case imagine, a woman is captured and suddenly tossed fully naked into a busy street! What is the natural/instinct reaction? (…Even the most experience pro-nudity women would at least be startled!)
She tries to run for cover or hide or at least cover the private parts, some may even curl down and sit trying to minimize the coverage!
What would nearby people do? Obviously some people just gaze! Some decent men may look away! And some other people may try to find some clothes to cover her!
It is NATURAL and by INSTINCT and it is not just women, men too react in similar ways, though the reaction and its impact is much more intense in women. Those men who look away, know and feel that by looking they would be unjustly invading her!
In a different example, imagine an individual male or female is wearing a special clothing which is only covering everything except the parts it should! This guy/gal is also tossed into the street, what would be the reaction? Same reaction, or very similar!
We all should agree that an average human being with an average upbringing regardless of nationality would universally act in the same way.
The private parts are either used for reproduction or removing the waste! It is natural to cover them.
Now think about your mobile phone, some ports such as where memory or SIM is inserted are covered or have a cover. It just seems more natural and nice to hide them, because their function is not needed all the time, you only need them when you want to add or remove and from the design point of view, when covered they look better too. However a USB port for example is regularly used so there is no point hiding it.
People’s clothing often cover 90% of body surface! A normal businessman would have only his hand and face showing assuming he is not wearing shades.
Indeed clothes have many other functions, they protect from temperature or other physical harm, represent the identity, belief and class of the individual, they enhance work, make you look nice, etc... But the most basic function is to simply cover and hide!
Sexual appeal is tied to reproduction, when a woman is not covered enough and furthermore acts to attract, she immediately becomes a target; it is a natural instinct response from men, even old men that she is ready and really looking to find a mate for reproduction purposes! Sure society may train you to think somewhat differently, for instance to think that it is normal to be half naked or think that she is just showing what she has on the shelf so buyers can choose before buying! However we all know that when instincts take over what could potentially happen, so covering the body seems to be a self-defense for normal women who are not sellers but choosers, and want to find their perfect/choice man.
This is funny…but how many buyers can there be? In fact why should there be so many sales!? From this point on these questions can be answered only from a social point of view.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Edited: added title in red!
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From the social point of view:
It is a tested and hard fact that a military force benefits from keeping women out or at least at the back in a safe distance! They just mellow the situation and distract! Imagine if they also be showing legs and cleavage the situation would be much worse!
In a proper education system also, girls and boys should be separate, so instead of falling into hormones and attraction game too early they should use their youth energy and time on learning!
Same thing is true at work.
Unfortunately in western and liberal societies things are much different. In some places they would even hang naked photos to the walls of a factory, thinking this would berserk the workers!!!
If people are too much and too long exposed to sexual scenes or sex in general, they become desensitized, some may encounter sexual problems as they no longer enjoy just looking at the curves, instead they have to explore different new and often severe or unnatural ways to be pleased. Others just no longer enjoy sexual relationship and lose their interest or even hate it, some of these avoid sex as in fasting so after weeks they may regain their interest in it. Yet some others constantly look for new experiences and seek variety not knowing that in the end it’s not really too different! This is going out of scope, if you ask the psychologists they will tell you how deep the rabbit hole goes and give you the name of all these mental illnesses.
On the other hand covering the body in such a way so that there is no or minimal sexual attraction has social benefits, however if sexual needs of the people are addressed obviously through marriage it would have much more positive impact; more work will be done and less energy wasted in such a society/community; better and long lasting families form who will have better children; etc... And the definition of love will be far more than just curves.
Feminism tries to turn women into men, it has failed because in the name of equality ignored the difference between man and women.
Hollywood movies also particularly poison the mind of young people, injecting ideas that fail in real world, into their minds.
Not sure why after all this time people still believe in Freud’s messed up ideas. Women covering does precisely mean that we are paying attention to the fact that sexuality is at the core of human function encompassing other human dimensions.
History is witness to the truth that women become slaves or bullied by men in almost every society if they are not protected, this is how things are in the real world.
The extent to which covering should be, may vary depending on geophysical, racial and cultural factors.
It is a tested and hard fact that a military force benefits from keeping women out or at least at the back in a safe distance! They just mellow the situation and distract! Imagine if they also be showing legs and cleavage the situation would be much worse!
In a proper education system also, girls and boys should be separate, so instead of falling into hormones and attraction game too early they should use their youth energy and time on learning!
Same thing is true at work.
Unfortunately in western and liberal societies things are much different. In some places they would even hang naked photos to the walls of a factory, thinking this would berserk the workers!!!
If people are too much and too long exposed to sexual scenes or sex in general, they become desensitized, some may encounter sexual problems as they no longer enjoy just looking at the curves, instead they have to explore different new and often severe or unnatural ways to be pleased. Others just no longer enjoy sexual relationship and lose their interest or even hate it, some of these avoid sex as in fasting so after weeks they may regain their interest in it. Yet some others constantly look for new experiences and seek variety not knowing that in the end it’s not really too different! This is going out of scope, if you ask the psychologists they will tell you how deep the rabbit hole goes and give you the name of all these mental illnesses.
On the other hand covering the body in such a way so that there is no or minimal sexual attraction has social benefits, however if sexual needs of the people are addressed obviously through marriage it would have much more positive impact; more work will be done and less energy wasted in such a society/community; better and long lasting families form who will have better children; etc... And the definition of love will be far more than just curves.
Feminism tries to turn women into men, it has failed because in the name of equality ignored the difference between man and women.
Hollywood movies also particularly poison the mind of young people, injecting ideas that fail in real world, into their minds.
Not sure why after all this time people still believe in Freud’s messed up ideas. Women covering does precisely mean that we are paying attention to the fact that sexuality is at the core of human function encompassing other human dimensions.
History is witness to the truth that women become slaves or bullied by men in almost every society if they are not protected, this is how things are in the real world.
The extent to which covering should be, may vary depending on geophysical, racial and cultural factors.
From the religious view point:
Islam is concerned with Hijab because it is a social issue. And as some have posted here on this topic, devout, practicing Jewish and Christian women, older women in Russia or Europe wear some form of Hijab. It also predated Islam.
Quran says tell to the believing men and women to lower their gaze! Ladies are advised not to act bashfully or too soft, not to walk in such a way to make sound on every step! And to bring their headscarves/wraps over their breasts. More details are explained by scholars or imams or the way Prophet lived.
For example, the clothing should not make you stand so much apart from the rest of people. Men should not wear silk or gold. Women should not have transparent clothing showing underneath, or tight showing the shape, should not show off their Jewelry or wear makeup in public.
But not every detail is explained, some things are derived, for example in Iran there used to be two rings on the doors of houses for the purpose of knocking on the door. One of them would make thicker noise while the other thinner so the house keeper would know whether it is a woman out there or man knocking their door and thus approach properly!
As you see everything is very Hijab oriented in an Islamic society, yet in the bedroom time the absolute opposite is advised between married couple, there are even books on the subject, although these are for reading only, nobody quotes the openly in universities or on TV !!!
Although it is a social phenomenon, Islam adds to it and make it compulsory and something that God approves of and likes!
The best and most complete form Hijab however is more than just covering, and it becomes a religious symbol, the black color for example, covering top to bottom, etc…
Family is very important in Islam, for example a single individual’s prayer has half the worth of a married individual. Family is a place of growing up and preparation for society, this is where children interact and learn to share, help, cooperate, handle their fears or jealousy, and become strong enough sacrifice or show kindness and be prepared to enter the society.
Islam advises multiple children at least 2, preferably 3 or more, because brothers and sisters learn many things by just interacting with each other! Compare this with single parent families in the west! The child either has no mother or has no father! In some cases has two mothers or two fathers!!
In Islamic families or any traditional family children experience different forms of love from different relatives, the love of a grandma or grandpa, the love of uncle, aunt, etc… and they learn to respect older people.
Without at least some level of hijab (for example an English lady wearing decent clothing and little makeup) it would be very unlikely or rare to have long lasting and good functioning families.
When a beautiful woman wears Hijab, she allows other less beautiful women have a chance to compete, other men of age who are not ready, or traveling men who are away from their wife, or sick people, etc… not be distracted and pressured. Furthermore she will have a better time choosing her perfect matching husband instead of having bewitched low life men in their hundreds coming to her door proposing! So among other things wearing Hijab is also a moral and loving action.
Islam is concerned with Hijab because it is a social issue. And as some have posted here on this topic, devout, practicing Jewish and Christian women, older women in Russia or Europe wear some form of Hijab. It also predated Islam.
Quran says tell to the believing men and women to lower their gaze! Ladies are advised not to act bashfully or too soft, not to walk in such a way to make sound on every step! And to bring their headscarves/wraps over their breasts. More details are explained by scholars or imams or the way Prophet lived.
For example, the clothing should not make you stand so much apart from the rest of people. Men should not wear silk or gold. Women should not have transparent clothing showing underneath, or tight showing the shape, should not show off their Jewelry or wear makeup in public.
But not every detail is explained, some things are derived, for example in Iran there used to be two rings on the doors of houses for the purpose of knocking on the door. One of them would make thicker noise while the other thinner so the house keeper would know whether it is a woman out there or man knocking their door and thus approach properly!
As you see everything is very Hijab oriented in an Islamic society, yet in the bedroom time the absolute opposite is advised between married couple, there are even books on the subject, although these are for reading only, nobody quotes the openly in universities or on TV !!!
Although it is a social phenomenon, Islam adds to it and make it compulsory and something that God approves of and likes!
The best and most complete form Hijab however is more than just covering, and it becomes a religious symbol, the black color for example, covering top to bottom, etc…
Family is very important in Islam, for example a single individual’s prayer has half the worth of a married individual. Family is a place of growing up and preparation for society, this is where children interact and learn to share, help, cooperate, handle their fears or jealousy, and become strong enough sacrifice or show kindness and be prepared to enter the society.
Islam advises multiple children at least 2, preferably 3 or more, because brothers and sisters learn many things by just interacting with each other! Compare this with single parent families in the west! The child either has no mother or has no father! In some cases has two mothers or two fathers!!
In Islamic families or any traditional family children experience different forms of love from different relatives, the love of a grandma or grandpa, the love of uncle, aunt, etc… and they learn to respect older people.
Without at least some level of hijab (for example an English lady wearing decent clothing and little makeup) it would be very unlikely or rare to have long lasting and good functioning families.
When a beautiful woman wears Hijab, she allows other less beautiful women have a chance to compete, other men of age who are not ready, or traveling men who are away from their wife, or sick people, etc… not be distracted and pressured. Furthermore she will have a better time choosing her perfect matching husband instead of having bewitched low life men in their hundreds coming to her door proposing! So among other things wearing Hijab is also a moral and loving action.
From an esoteric Islamic view point:
In the west it is believed that the universe is beautiful and full of secrets mesmerizingly beckoning to be uncovered for its hidden gems by Human who in turn craves for the unknown and seeks to uncover the truth of universe!
In Islamic wisdom the opposite is true. God and the universe does not allow every fool to reach its gems, it is fiercely guarding the best part of truth and only those who deserve are allowed in.
So what we see of the advances human has made which are mostly in the physical side, it is just scratching the surface. All the human knowledge will be multiplied by 27 in an exponential way after the end-times and coming of Mahdi (عج) along with Jesus (ع), this is based on one Shiite Imams sayings.
The truth is, those hidden gems are not for everyone; one has to earn to see the truth.
One of the sever punishments in the hereafter mentioned in Quran is that Allah (swt) will not show himself to the unbelievers and the sinful, nor will he look at them directly!
Charity is good but if you do it not in the open it will have more value, this is how our Imams would do charity at night and advised to do the same.
You need to be a mountain of a man not to be moved by the massive deep love of people for you, the same Khomeini the founder of Islamic revolution of Iran had. He could speak scholars’ eloquent speech and please the crowd but one day after one particular speech (it was before the revolution) he said: “I enjoyed it”, so from then on he spoke as a simple man. He was one who hammered his soul into shape for years before God gave him the opportunity for the revolution. As one American politician once said: “we can’t deal with the fact that an old man on a diet of garlic and bread threw us out of Iran.” His diet was more varied though but his wife said he used to not eat a particular stew because he loved it so much! Obviously men of God would rather only God see their work, if people or just one guy appreciate them and they get just a tiny good feeling in their heart, then the purity of action for God is questionable! Thus the desire to remain hidden/unknown/normal (their action remain hidden). So what does this has to do with women!?
Well in Islam we have a concept called “hidden-role”, this is what God ordains for every individual. You are free not to peruse it though! In the hereafter many feel deep sorrow for not having followed their roles! Women are by default into this category of having hidden roles and thus privileged. What women do is extremely important so much so that the entire society is based on their work. They give rise to good men and women, they are at the core, and if they fail the entire society fails. Their role is hidden in the house, nobody knows how much work they do except God, and so they are also less prone to something we call عجب (OJB) it is a kind of self-love and arrogance that you get after becoming good! Very hard to beat! There is much on this subject but little time.
True men of God would rather do God’s work and not be in the center of attention and appreciation, instead perhaps even be hated by people! This ensures maximum purity in their intention for God. Women due to their creation and differences with men are by default into hidden-role which is much more rewarding in the eyes of God.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Edited: Fixed some words.
In the west it is believed that the universe is beautiful and full of secrets mesmerizingly beckoning to be uncovered for its hidden gems by Human who in turn craves for the unknown and seeks to uncover the truth of universe!
In Islamic wisdom the opposite is true. God and the universe does not allow every fool to reach its gems, it is fiercely guarding the best part of truth and only those who deserve are allowed in.
So what we see of the advances human has made which are mostly in the physical side, it is just scratching the surface. All the human knowledge will be multiplied by 27 in an exponential way after the end-times and coming of Mahdi (عج) along with Jesus (ع), this is based on one Shiite Imams sayings.
The truth is, those hidden gems are not for everyone; one has to earn to see the truth.
One of the sever punishments in the hereafter mentioned in Quran is that Allah (swt) will not show himself to the unbelievers and the sinful, nor will he look at them directly!
Charity is good but if you do it not in the open it will have more value, this is how our Imams would do charity at night and advised to do the same.
You need to be a mountain of a man not to be moved by the massive deep love of people for you, the same Khomeini the founder of Islamic revolution of Iran had. He could speak scholars’ eloquent speech and please the crowd but one day after one particular speech (it was before the revolution) he said: “I enjoyed it”, so from then on he spoke as a simple man. He was one who hammered his soul into shape for years before God gave him the opportunity for the revolution. As one American politician once said: “we can’t deal with the fact that an old man on a diet of garlic and bread threw us out of Iran.” His diet was more varied though but his wife said he used to not eat a particular stew because he loved it so much! Obviously men of God would rather only God see their work, if people or just one guy appreciate them and they get just a tiny good feeling in their heart, then the purity of action for God is questionable! Thus the desire to remain hidden/unknown/normal (their action remain hidden). So what does this has to do with women!?
Well in Islam we have a concept called “hidden-role”, this is what God ordains for every individual. You are free not to peruse it though! In the hereafter many feel deep sorrow for not having followed their roles! Women are by default into this category of having hidden roles and thus privileged. What women do is extremely important so much so that the entire society is based on their work. They give rise to good men and women, they are at the core, and if they fail the entire society fails. Their role is hidden in the house, nobody knows how much work they do except God, and so they are also less prone to something we call عجب (OJB) it is a kind of self-love and arrogance that you get after becoming good! Very hard to beat! There is much on this subject but little time.
True men of God would rather do God’s work and not be in the center of attention and appreciation, instead perhaps even be hated by people! This ensures maximum purity in their intention for God. Women due to their creation and differences with men are by default into hidden-role which is much more rewarding in the eyes of God.
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Edited: Fixed some words.
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See hijab ...