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Libertarian Socialists Unite!

Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I intended the title to be "Libertarian Socialists Expound!" because that is more what I'm after, but it looked too bland, so I went with something exciting.
I'm curious about this strange flavor of libertarianism, so I'm asking those who identify as such to explain what their philosophy is, how it differs from what you might call free-market-capitalist libertarians, & what political party feels most like home.
Note:
Let's not get caught up in any debates here.
This thread is about understanding perspectives.

Note #2: Ignore the thread in the Capitalist Only forum.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
I thought this should go in the socialist section but this works too according to the parameters set by management:

Libertarian: This term means very different things depending on where one is located, but the general philosophy is that liberty is paramount. In the US, it is generally used to describe right-libertarianism; this ideology tends to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and can be described as minarchist. In Europe, the term is typically used for left-libertarianism; this ideology stresses social justice and individual freedom, and is often described as libertarian socialism. People who find themselves in this ideology often identify with political organizations such as: the Libertarian Party (US), the Libertarian Party of Canada, the Occupy Movement, and the “New Left” Movement.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
There are many varieties so I'll just be answering mainly from my own perspective. Stay tuned.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
The libertarian part of the designation means that like other libertarians we value maximal freedom for individuals. That would be the main philosophy of the US Libertarian Party. They extend that to the economic sphere as well. But being also socialists we recognize that a purely libertarian system can lead to economic deprivation of disadvantaged persons. So there must be some kind of mechanism to prevent that from happening. In other words a safety net.

Some left libertarians (another designation for libertarian socialists) are anarchists, others (such as myself) are minarchists (this is also true of those who identify with the Libertarian Party in the US). Minarchists in the Libertarian Party believe in a government that provides for things like defense but left libertarians would contend that it is also the responsibility of the government to care for the least advantaged in society as well as protect against abuses by those who wield economic power (environmental degradation, unfair labor practices, etc)

That's a start and I will add to it.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Now a big difference between libertarian socialists and other socialists is that we don't believe in a state-run economic system either of the Marxist variety nor the democratic socialist model. We favor a bottom-up, decentralized approach with economic power vested in the workers themselves. Exactly how that would be implemented is a matter of internal debate. For instance syndicalists believe economic power should be in the hands of trade unions. So in other words rather than there being multiple individual carpentry companies there would be one carpentry union running everything. Myself I favor a more individual, more decentralized approach. Individual companies would be run by those who work in that company (with some allowance for outside contractors not directly involved in the business per se). It's important to note that such an economic change would not affect the majority of US businesses which are sole proprietorships without employees. But any company that employed others would be democratically run by those who actually work there.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
As for political parties there are none here in the US that fully represent my own views nor that have a ghost of a chance at any real political influence. The Socialist Worker's Party might come the closest.

Feel free to ask questions! o_O
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Keep feeding information! I keep getting labeled as such, even though I do not identify as Libertarian. I believe in individual freedom, free exchanges of stuff, but the "free market (as many in America view it)" be damned, as well, because what benefits society tends to benefit the individual, I do believe there is a social obligation to elevate the lowest rungs of society to raise society as a whole. But yet I keep finding myself at Libertarian Socialist labels, even though Neo-Marxist is a much more appropriate label. I'm so confuzzled.

nazz said:
Now a big difference between libertarian socialists and other socialists is that we don't believe in a state-run economic system either of the Marxist variety nor the democratic socialist model.
Click to expand...
Marxism does not condone a state-ran economy. Marx and Engels both wrote that the state is a repressive apparatus that is in cahoots with the bourgeois.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Wanted to add this. I tend to be a pragmatist and political realist. Changing over to a socialist economy here in the US (whatever form one espouses) is pretty much a pipe dream. There is such a strong anti-socialist sentiment. So I tend to focus on issues. So I am going to support moves toward greater freedom for individuals (like marijuana legalization, same sex marriage) and greater protections for the environment and the economically disadvantaged (like a higher living wage). Also smaller, more efficient and decentralized governance.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Shadow Wolf said:
Keep feeding information! I keep getting labeled as such, even though I do not identify as Libertarian. I believe in individual freedom, free exchanges of stuff, but the "free market (as many in America view it)" be damned, as well, because what benefits society tends to benefit the individual, I do believe there is a social obligation to elevate the lowest rungs of society to raise society as a whole. But yet I keep finding myself at Libertarian Socialist labels, even though Neo-Marxist is a much more appropriate label. I'm so confuzzled.


Marxism does not condone a state-ran economy. Marx and Engels both wrote that the state is a repressive apparatus that is in cahoots with the bourgeois.
Click to expand...
Well Revoltingest said he did not want a debate but if you are against a state-run economy as well as capitalism then that sounds like lib socialism to me
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
nazz said:
Wanted to add this. I tend to be a pragmatist and political realist. Changing over to a socialist economy here in the US (whatever form one espouses) is pretty much a pipe dream. There is such a strong anti-socialist sentiment. So I tend to focus on issues. So I am going to support moves toward greater freedom for individuals (like marijuana legalization, same sex marriage) and greater protections for the environment and the economically disadvantaged (like a higher living wage). Also smaller, more efficient and decentralized governance.
Click to expand...
Who are some Libertarian authors that support greater environmental and disadvantaged protections?
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
nazz said:
Well Revoltingest said he did not want a debate but if you are against a state-run economy as well as capitalism then that sounds like lib socialism to me
Click to expand...
I am not a liberal. The mainstream libs tend to be too restrictive on speech and way too PC, and some Liberal authors, like Rawls, put out ridiculous theories that look nice on paper but have absolutely no way to ever implement them.
I also wasn't intending on debate, but pointing out that Marx and Engels were not the pro-state, ultra egalitarian, no private property at all sort of thugs that Western society has led us to believe they were.
 
D

Disposable member

Member
nazz said:
Gotcha. Generally philosophy aside I wonder if we would be in agreement about particular issues. The more practical side of things.
Click to expand...

My ideas are based more on the tribal organizations of peoples like the pre-Christian Germanic and Celtic tribes, who had a more democratic, tight-knit social structure, because I believe that social set up is more natural to humans as we lived in such ways for 10s or 100s of thousands of years.

So I would be a:
anarco-communist
neotribalist
green anarchist
individualist anarchist
communitarian
Heathen anarchist
anarcha-feminist
queer anarchist

Of course, I'm a radical anti-capitalist, too. Basically, it's all about individual freedom, respect and care for the environment, social egalitarianism, sexual/relationship freedom and localized focus on smaller communities (the world an individual and community lives in).
 
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